End of the PF dream?

[DaveMac]

Wednesday, July 7th, 2010
Q: Just wondering; would it be at all possible for Sideshow to complete 1 or 2 lines in you’re “The Lord of the Rings” range? There are so many different lines in production, some active, some stalled – it’s a nightmare for me as a collector, as I have bits and pieces of all the lines but don’t seem to ever get a complete set! By the rate Sideshow is going, I be dead before I ever complete a single LOTR product line. So my question, why is it so hard for Sideshow to finish one line (at least The Fellowship members) before releasing another line? I love all the LOTR products you guys have made so far, but I have to be honest, it seems to me that Sideshow is in a big mess, and you’re only digging yourselves deeper by releasing yet another LOTR line.

A:Fair enough, and as LOTR fans, we understand where you’re coming from. Many factors influence our decision making, including fan feedback, sales support, design quality, developer availability, and sometimes even resource competition from other licenses. In our LOTR history, all of these factors have contributed to the untimely ‘pauses’ or demises of lines before we’re able to complete the Fellowship. We’ve been eager for a fresh start, and a format in which we’re most likely to be able to make good on the potential of a full Fellowship, and believe the new statue line IS that opportunity. Gimli is sort of a mascot for the potential of the line, as the complexity of the character & costume design poses significant challenges in other formats (especially 12-inch and PF), but he was the first design approved for the new statue line.



So, if Gimli is to complex for a PF, where does that leave Boromir, High Elven warriors etc?

This has taken a the proverbial 'P**s' and nearly doused the flames of my Fellowship in PF dreams

 

[crazytrain]

Well, I have to confess I'd missed this news, however I'd literally just a couple of hours ago taken the decision to give up on the line and had cancelled my pre-order for GtG. Weird, huh?

I actually took the time to write quite a long explanation in the "reason" box when cancelling, which essentially came down to the fact that they've been taking far too long, they made a hash of the Moria Orc and now have just completely blown it when it came to the Morgul Lord. Hence, I've completely lost faith in their ability to deliver in the PF line....

Then I see this, which pretty much confirms it. Sad, really, really sad. If there was one line that could really show off the benefits of the PF format, surely LotR was the one??

So, anyone (especially in the UK) interested in Lurtz, Aragorn and GtW (all exclusives) and Frodo PFs for sale...?

 

[galactiboy]

I didn't read all of that response, but yeah, seems pretty clear they are not making Gimli in PF. That is very weak... why bother tackling something as ambitious as a PF series if you aren't going to deliver a key character like Gimli?

 

[Red Metal]

Nothing about the statue line makes me think it has any chance of completing the Fellowship. The price is alittle too high for my taste (for $50 more you could get the GtG PF over the GtG statue ) and there have been some pretty reasonable complaints on both the ones released so far - Strider's headsculpt and GtG's pose and weak arm Ex.

Unless SSC really plans to push out the Fellowship in one go, back-to-back, I don't see this line having the legs to make it thru the Fellowship. SSC should really fall back to their PF line, since it's partly complete and is a signature line for them anyway.

 

[Adoptedscot]

Wow, this doesn't look good.
So the maquette line it seems is going full steam ahead (for the moment) but I get the impression that everything else will be stopped for one reason or another.

I thought we would at least see a Gimli PF, people have been crying out for a representation of Gimli for what seems like forever. If a crucial character like that isn't gonna happen in PF form then like GB sais any other detailed piece most likely won't happen in PF form either.

I'll wait and see what happens but maybe the start of the LOTR maquette line, is the death of every other LOTR line
x

 

[galactiboy]

Kind of what happened with the 1/6 line... it was abandoned for a different line with the promise of getting the characters. Anyone noticing a pattern?

Kind of sad when you get a PF of Galadriel, but no Gimli

Much like a 1/6 Faramir, but no Gimli or a single villain

People piss and moan about the Indy line not being well handled, but LOTR seems to get the shaft at just about every turn when it comes to completing the fellowship or getting a decent range of figures.

 

[occulum]

I think SS has good intentions when planning new lines and their release schedule but they also shoot themslves in the foot when they hold off on important characters early in the line's development.
They optimistically spread the big characters out over time to keep interest over a line being released over several years of production and development.
But holding out on those characters kills the draw to the line and doesnt capitalize on the initial hype and excitement needed to keep it going thru completion.

They should assume any new line will have a quick finite life and crank out the most important characters first and as fast as possible. THen if the line still has enough draw and life after that, it can continue into more obscure characters which would all be gravy at that point.

I understand the initial planning / timelines, but it doesnt seem as if thats workin out the way we all had hoped.
Moving forward they need to assume their window of opportunity for every line is limited and push the most popular/wanted characters out first and foremost.

...

 

[Entropy]

With the 1:6 line, and 1:4 as well I guess, SS said it took a lot of time and resources to develop the detailed costumes and gear and the profit return from sales wasn't there for it to continue. With this maquette line they don't have to worry about finding fabrics, tailoring clothing, etc. so fully sculpted is easier and probably cheaper with a greater profit for them than the other lines. But with Helm's Deep Legolas and Boromir in armor coming up, it may be a long time, if at all, before they revisit those characters in Fellowship gear and this line will end with an incomplete Fellowship like Weta did with the sore thumb Citdel Pippin.

 

[roguebaron]

Keeping any artist interested in sculpting the same type of character is a challenge, so we get varients and second stringers to keep them interested to try and continue making a line. This has unfortunately not worked well as what will keep the sculptors interested doesn't really keep us interested, and the line dies. But do I want someone whos become disenchanted with the line making the next characters, not really, because again we'll get something we're not happy with and the line will die.

It's easy to say crank out the new fellowship as quick as possible, but this also has to be weighed against how much we can afford as well, if they made 6 or 7 fellowship members people would cry slow down it's too much or where are the villians.

A fine line they have to walk, and no matter what, not everyone will be happy.

I really do wish this line had begun with gimli or someone new, other than the same old characters we have in 3 or 4 other formats, and that more than anything has stopped me from picking this line up. I have enough aaragorns and gandalfs and legolas', I need someone new to keep my interest.

 

[DaveMac]

The main annoyance for me is the total dodging of the question on the Fellowship in PF form. They could have said right from the early calls for the 9 that certain characters would be to difficult to make but they haven't. They even asked for input as to the Hobbits citing them as a reason why the 9 may never come about as they may prove unpopular. Collectors wanting the complete Fellowship took time out to set up polls to answer the question about the Fellowship and Hobbits after SSC suggested it and the response was very positive.

Did SS respond?

Not to my knowledge they haven't!

So what then is the real problem?

Hobbits may not sell? (polls and forum demands suggest they will)

Or certain characters are to hard to make? (which again raises the question of why start the line?)

After all this time it is a very sad response to what should and still can be THE best LOTR range of figures.

 

[DaveMac]

Keeping any artist interested in sculpting the same type of character is a challenge, so we get varients and second stringers to keep them interested to try and continue making a line. This has unfortunately not worked well as what will keep the sculptors interested doesn't really keep us interested, and the line dies. But do I want someone whos become disenchanted with the line making the next characters, not really, because again we'll get something we're not happy with and the line will die.

It's easy to say crank out the new fellowship as quick as possible, but this also has to be weighed against how much we can afford as well, if they made 6 or 7 fellowship members people would cry slow down it's too much or where are the villians.

A fine line they have to walk, and no matter what, not everyone will be happy.

I really do wish this line had begun with gimli or someone new, other than the same old characters we have in 3 or 4 other formats, and that more than anything has stopped me from picking this line up. I have enough aaragorns and gandalfs and legolas', I need someone new to keep my interest.

Are you refering to the PF range or the new 'maquette' line?

 

[Blu Falcon]

There are only 3 existing PFs I'm interested in picking up anyway: Gandalf, Lurtz and Berserker. If this line was to suddenly get put "on hold" I would neither be surprised nor disappointed. The Morgul Lord PF will be the death of this line.

 

[Fremen]

If the PF line gets cancelled or put on hold, I will be so pissed!

 

[furystorm]

I learned a long time ago that premium format were not a style of collecting which would fit into my life, with Star Wars. I quickly ran out of space, and ditched. With this new line of single figure study maquettes of Lord of the Rings, I'm interested in collecting a line of characters again from a much beloved story line. With the caveat that I do at some point, two or three years down the line, have a complete fellowship. Spacing the fellowship members out with key characters, such as the previewed Arwen, is fine with me. But please Sideshow, get these fans (and this new LOTR collector, me) a full fellowship. There can be no excuses this time as to why it cannot be done. We have already seen a preview for Gimli including sculpting progress, so I do have faith that the fellowship will reside on my shelves. Make them well, and support the fans who have supported you for so long Sideshow.

All that said, I'm super excited to be on board for the new maquette line.

 

[Shai]

LOTR fanboys dont support those lines enough.Drop the license,Sideshow.

 

[LOTRFan]

I think SS has good intentions when planning new lines and their release schedule but they also shoot themslves in the foot when they hold off on important characters early in the line's development.
They optimistically spread the big characters out over time to keep interest over a line being released over several years of production and development.
But holding out on those characters kills the draw to the line and doesnt capitalize on the initial hype and excitement needed to keep it going thru completion.

They should assume any new line will have a quick finite life and crank out the most important characters first and as fast as possible. THen if the line still has enough draw and life after that, it can continue into more obscure characters which would all be gravy at that point.

I understand the initial planning / timelines, but it doesnt seem as if thats workin out the way we all had hoped.
Moving forward they need to assume their window of opportunity for every line is limited and push the most popular/wanted characters out first and foremost.

...

I wholeheartedly agree, and while I had sworn off seeing an entire Fellowship long ago; I would like to believe that SS still has good intentions for what is their "flagship line." I can't imagine that they wouldn't want to tackle the more elaborate costuming like Gimli, Boromir, something from both Rohan and of Elvish design; and while the costs go up, I would pay for quality. I don't think I am alone, maybe we just need to convince SS to go forward - seems hard to believe they have always pushed things to another level.

Wonky pose aside, the Morgul Lord doesn't appear to have the embroidery along the hem that it should and is rather just black cloth; that is an example to me of a real corner cut.

It is hard to balance the latest Q & A with their obscure comment about a Sauron PF though; the armor, and maile wouldn't exactly be easy to accomplish.

 

[choopie]

I certainly don't buy the excuse that some characters would be too difficult to make in PF form. After the complexity we got with Blackbeard and Vlad the Impaler and the potential for Sauron, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't be able to pull off a Boromir or Gimli PF. Perhaps the materials they need are getting too expensive for them to acquire and develop into a product that is still attainable for the collector.

At any rate, I don't have high hopes for the maquette line either. They may say they want to do the Fellowship in the maquettes, but they showed us right off the bat sketches for an Osgiliath Boromir. So when do we get a Fellowship Boromir? A year from now. Two years from now?

I'm just afraid that this maquette line won't be sustainable in the long haul with the current price point, and no doubt the Balrog and Cave Troll will be much more expensive than $250.

 

[roguebaron]

Are you refering to the PF range or the new 'maquette' line?

I think this is a challenge for any line, the origional 12", the LSB's and the Pf's. And not just in LOTR, but star wars as well.

 

[The Josh]

The main annoyance for me is the total dodging of the question on the Fellowship in PF form. They could have said right from the early calls for the 9 that certain characters would be to difficult to make but they haven't.

I'm pretty sure on more than one occasion in chats and such they've talked about how hard the costumes are to make and that any item in this line is difficult to make.

They even asked for input as to the Hobbits citing them as a reason why the 9 may never come about as they may prove unpopular. Collectors wanting the complete Fellowship took time out to set up polls to answer the question about the Fellowship and Hobbits after SSC suggested it and the response was very positive.

Did SS respond?

Not to my knowledge they haven't!

Again, I think in Q&A and other items they've talked about how they want to do these figures.

Hobbits may not sell? (polls and forum demands suggest they will)

That's still not a good enough reason really. Its a start but people collect other things and other factors come into play. Say they make 500 of each hobbit because thats what the polls say. However, crap happens and 150 people have to cancel. That leaves that many sitting around for a while. Thats not a good thing. and also the Hobbit 1:6th scale figures which are really damn good figures didn't sell well. The original statues sold slow the hobbit ones did.

Its a fact The Hobbits just don't go quickly.

Or certain characters are to hard to make? (which again raises the question of why start the line?)

Cause the PF line is one that screams for something like LOTR. I don't know if anyone thought some of these costumes would be this hard to make or getting the materials be this hard.

 

[The Josh]

I certainly don't buy the excuse that some characters would be too difficult to make in PF form. After the complexity we got with Blackbeard and Vlad the Impaler and the potential for Sauron, I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't be able to pull off a Boromir or Gimli PF. Perhaps the materials they need are getting too expensive for them to acquire and develop into a product that is still attainable for the collector.

Why is it hard to believe some are difficult? The costumes or the materials needed are probably a bit harder than Blackbeard or Vlad. They haven't said they can't pull off those but that they will be a challange. The costuming on LOTR items is difficult. Look at all the fine details in each when you look at pictures. Now, try to imagine doing that in smaller scale.

At any rate, I don't have high hopes for the maquette line either. They may say they want to do the Fellowship in the maquettes, but they showed us right off the bat sketches for an Osgiliath Boromir. So when do we get a Fellowship Boromir? A year from now. Two years from now?

I do. This line will be much easier to make items for. You don't have to worry about clothing being an issue in getting materials. Plus for whatever reasons LOTR collectors tend to accept statues more than other products even if they're made by Sideshow.

This is much like Pippin. He's a member of the Fellowship even if he's not in the garb he wore in FOTR. If you get all 9 members of the Fellowship in a line that to me is it right there. If we get them in other outfits be it a variation or the FOTR movie garb thats awesome

I'm just afraid that this maquette line won't be sustainable in the long haul with the current price point, and no doubt the Balrog and Cave Troll will be much more expensive than $250.

The market is outside of $200 now. If you're like me and you collect other lines you came to accept that a long time back. Yes, those will be over $250 the original pieces from the SSW lines where over that. They'll be at least $300 more likely $350-375.