Disgusted with humanity in general

[DarkArtist81]

After reading through the now locked abortion topic thread, I realize how much I am just disgusted with how people think... at least many of them. I just don't understand how anyone, regardless of belief or ideals, can view the death of anyone as a good thing.

Hell, I even felt a little remorse when I watched the video of Saddam H. being executed. And I actually FOUGHT a war against the guy! He did unspeakable things, but did I find any satisfaction whatsoever in his death? No.

I can understand the tensions people have in this country about when life begins, what is the "right" way to do things regarding abortion... gay rights, etc. But to applaud the death of anyone is really sick to me.

The world is full of people, with various religious beliefs, with various moral standings, various political leanings. Some people do things that we may not condone, or may not agree with. It doesn't give us the right to judge and execute them based on a belief. Or even to smile and pump our fists in the air when someone else does so.

I just want to reiterate that this isn't a political thread, nor is it about abortion or anything close to it. It's really about how people can take something so pure, like belief... and turn it to selfish and evil ends.

What does it take for a human to interpret the words in the Bible? Which in turn were interpretations of the word of God... if they were at all, and not just the creation of man entirely.

How can anyone use an interpretation to punish others? It's happened many times in history, the Inquisition, the Witch Trials, the Plague, the Crusades, the list goes on and on. Just like any good literature, one can take away many different lessons from the text. So how can anyone use this to judge anyone??

Religion and death has gone hand in hand for centuries, and it's really bothersome to me that it continues even though man has come so far. We really ARE beasts, aren't we? How can we deny it? We kill one another with impunity, we visit all manner of atrocities on our brothers without remorse. And yet some still believe we aren't connected to animals via ancestry.

It's sickening to me that we still cling to this idea that somehow we can decide what is right for ALL mankind, that the power to do so resides in ONE groups ideas of justice or right and wrong. Why can't we see that the answers do not rest in any book or doctrine but rather in the world itself and the lessons that time has to teach us? We will never move forward if we can't look at things through more scientific eyes, and make rational decisions that will benefit the greater number of people without excess suffering.

And if this thread needs to be locked, so be it. If I have to lose my mod powers, so be it. This is a discussion board, and dammit I feel like discussing this. If you too want to join me, go ahead. If not, move along.

 

[Darth Caedus]

After reading through the now locked abortion topic thread, I realize how much I am just disgusted with how people think... at least many of them. I just don't understand how anyone, regardless of belief or ideals, can view the death of anyone as a good thing.

Hell, I even felt a little remorse when I watched the video of Saddam H. being executed. And I actually FOUGHT a war against the guy! He did unspeakable things, but did I find any satisfaction whatsoever in his death? No.

I can understand the tensions people have in this country about when life begins, what is the "right" way to do things regarding abortion... gay rights, etc. But to applaud the death of anyone is really sick to me.

The world is full of people, with various religious beliefs, with various moral standings, various political leanings. Some people do things that we may not condone, or may not agree with. It doesn't give us the right to judge and execute them based on a belief. Or even to smile and pump our fists in the air when someone else does so.

I just want to reiterate that this isn't a political thread, nor is it about abortion or anything close to it. It's really about how people can take something so pure, like belief... and turn it to selfish and evil ends.

What does it take for a human to interpret the words in the Bible? Which in turn were interpretations of the word of God... if they were at all, and not just the creation of man entirely.

How can anyone use an interpretation to punish others? It's happened many times in history, the Inquisition, the Witch Trials, the Plague, the Crusades, the list goes on and on. Just like any good literature, one can take away many different lessons from the text. So how can anyone use this to judge anyone??

Religion and death has gone hand in hand for centuries, and it's really bothersome to me that it continues even though man has come so far. We really ARE beasts, aren't we? How can we deny it? We kill one another with impunity, we visit all manner of atrocities on our brothers without remorse. And yet some still believe we aren't connected to animals via ancestry.

It's sickening to me that we still cling to this idea that somehow we can decide what is right for ALL mankind, that the power to do so resides in ONE groups ideas of justice or right and wrong. Why can't we see that the answers do not rest in any book or doctrine but rather in the world itself and the lessons that time has to teach us? We will never move forward if we can't look at things through more scientific eyes, and make rational decisions that will benefit the greater number of people without excess suffering.

And if this thread needs to be locked, so be it. If I have to lose my mod powers, so be it. This is a discussion board, and dammit I feel like discussing this. If you too want to join me, go ahead. If not, move along.

I I posted something, but this thread will be locked as well

But I will saw, that in general, I do hate most people.

 

[Voorhees27]

"Thou shall not kill" so religion has nothing to do with some loony extremist. Killing one to prove a point about "saving lives" is hypocritical and ridiculous. God is the ONLY one that should be punishing such a thing, not people. We were not created to play God, if this man is "Murdering" as some people (including myself) say then he will be judged when his time comes.

Simple enough.......... well at least it should be.

 

[Darth Caedus]

"Thou shall not kill" so religion has nothing to do with some loony extremist. Killing one to prove a point about "saving lives" is hypocritical and ridiculous. God is the ONLY one that should be punishing such a thing, not people. We were not created to play God, if this man is "Murdering" as some people (including myself) say then he will be judged when his time comes.

Simple enough.......... well at least it should be.

To what would you say to the people that advocated his killing? The people that felt justified in his death, to stop what they consider killing others? The logic and justifications go round-and-round with no real end because people's feelings on it are based on emotion and personal choices. There will never be on clean-cut answer.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Yeah..

It's just crazy to me that with all of the massive amounts of material out there for people to learn from, whether it be religious iconography, philosophy, science, humanities, history... that they still can act in such a way. I mean, with all that is available to us... we could all be extremely brilliant and less violent altogether.

It's just human nature I guess, to want to punish, to wish hurt on those who exist on the opposing side of any issue we believe in. Or to simply stand by and watch as others are treated unfairly, but to say or do nothing.

I think that our world has become too easy, and so man does not strive as hard as he once did. We've become complacent and comfortable, lazy. We don't seem to want to make things better....

I think man has a looooong way to go yet. We haven't seemed to learn much from the bloodshed of our past.

 

[Darth Caedus]

Yeah..

It's just crazy to me that with all of the massive amounts of material out there for people to learn from, whether it be religious iconography, philosophy, science, humanities, history... that they still can act in such a way. I mean, with all that is available to us... we could all be extremely brilliant and less violent altogether.

It's just human nature I guess, to want to punish, to wish hurt on those who exist on the opposing side of any issue we believe in. Or to simply stand by and watch as others are treated unfairly, but to say or do nothing.

I think that our world has become too easy, and so man does not strive as hard as he once did. We've become complacent and comfortable, lazy. We don't seem to want to make things better....

I think man has a looooong way to go yet. We haven't seemed to learn much from the bloodshed of our past.

Don't worry, we'll probably all blow eachother to hell in about 50 years....

 

[DarkArtist81]

"Thou shall not kill" so religion has nothing to do with some loony extremist. Killing one to prove a point about "saving lives" is hypocritical and ridiculous. God is the ONLY one that should be punishing such a thing, not people. We were not created to play God, if this man is "Murdering" as some people (including myself) say then he will be judged when his time comes.

Simple enough.......... well at least it should be.

The real truth is that there is no right answer to something like Abortion. It's both right and wrong. Which is why it will never ever be solved.

You are right though. It's not within mankind's power to kill other men because of a lack of shared beliefs or because what we think he is doing is wrong. But we do it all the time, and often in the name of God or his various pseudonyms. Which is the saddest fact of all IMO.

 

[Darth Caedus]

The real truth is that there is no right answer to something like Abortion. It's both right and wrong. Which is why it will never ever be solved.

You are right though. It's not within mankind's power to kill other men because of a lack of shared beliefs or because what we think he is doing is wrong. But we do it all the time, and often in the name of God or his various pseudonyms. Which is the saddest fact of all IMO.

Look at the middle east, they've been killing each other in the name of their God for 2,000 years. It's never going to end.

 

[Kibishii]

Well, I see this thread getting locked soon, but I will chime in.

This has little to do with religion and everything to do with basic humanity. Our 18 month old passed away in April 2008 from a blood infection, so we are very sensitive to life/death issues. That said, abortion is such an abhorrent action, late term in particular, that I can see how the doctors that perform them get killed. Is the doctor's death a trajedy? Absolutely. Do I applaud the killer? Not at all.

What bugs me the most about abortion is the blatent hypocrisy that most "pro-choice" people spew. I once got into this debate with a coworker of mine, who is also a friend, and it ended with her saying that a) they are not babies unless they are delivered and b) if a child would ruin a woman's life, it is her choice to abort the baby. Then when she found out that my wife was pregnant with our 3rd, she was SO excited and would daily ask about "the baby." When I brought in 3D ultrasound pictures, she talked about how he had "Kevin's nose" and the picture of him sucking his thumb was so adorable. So, was that child in my wife's stomach a baby or not?

If a pro-choice person says NO, they are crazy and if they say YES, then they openly support murder.

The real truth is that there is no right answer to something like Abortion. It's both right and wrong. Which is why it will never ever be solved.

Abortion is the most black & white political topic I can think of. It is murder, plain and simple. Most of the time, murder for convenience. Some people can say, "It's a woman's body, her choice." But it still goes back to being murder.

I also like to use the elderly as an analogy: They can't take care of themselves, they can be expensive, sickly, and a major inconvenience. Why don't we just "abort" them as well? The ONLY difference is that babies cannot protect themselves and the elderly have political power and children who don't want to let them go.

 

[Voorhees27]

To what would you say to the people that advocated his killing? The people that felt justified in his death, to stop what they consider killing others? The logic and justifications go round-and-round with no real end because people's feelings on it are based on emotion and personal choices. There will never be on clean-cut answer.

Well now that answers the problem all together................. you have the same hypocrisy all over the word ............ people with "opinion" on what actions should be made.

Common sense SHOULD prevail. The bottom line in this situation is, all citizens must obey the law of the nation they reside in, simple enough, when you break that law you should then be punished. If you choose to break those laws your cause cannot be justified, even if the law is ultimately wrong in your opinion.

I think the real question at hand is, how do you deal with extremists?

 

[DarkArtist81]

Don't worry, we'll probably all blow eachother to hell in about 50 years....

Sadly, I honestly and truly think it may have to come to that. Or some equally disastrous global calamity that will force us to unite once and for all. It might be the only way man can truly survive.

The fact that we remain so divided has been something that is shocking to me, especially as I have traveled the world. Men and women of all nations and creeds are really no different from the same men and women from the opposite side of the world. The only difference is cultural. We all have the same bodily makeup, we all hunger, we all love, we all feel pain. We may speak different languages, believe in different invisible deities, eat different foods or dress differently... but we belong to the same family. It's a travesty that we haven't been able to come to terms with those minor differences and truly unite as a global community.

Maybe one day we will achieve it, but I think it will only come from the near decimation of humanity. And only if we are lucky enough to have survivors to do so or a planet that is still viable to allow such a thing to happen at all.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Well, I see this thread getting locked soon, but I will chime in.

This has little to do with religion and everything to do with basic humanity. Our 18 month old passed away in April 2008 from a blood infection, so we are very sensitive to life/death issues. That said, abortion is such an abhorrent action, late term in particular, that I can see how the doctors that perform them get killed. Is the doctor's death a trajedy? Absolutely.

What bugs me the most about abortion is the blatent hypocrisy that most "pro-choice" people spew. I once got into this debate with a coworker of mine, who is also a friend, and it ended with her saying that a) they are not babies unless they are delivered and b) if a child would ruin a woman's life, it is her choice to abort the baby. Then when she found out that my wife was pregnant with our 3rd, she was SO excited and would daily ask about "the baby." When I brought in 3D ultrasound pictures, she talked about how he had "Kevin's nose" and the picture of him sucking his thumb was so adorable. So, was that child in my wife's stomach a baby or not?

If a pro-choice person says NO, they are crazy and if they say YES, then they openly support murder.

I also like to use the elderly as an analogy: They can't take care of themselves, they can be expensive, sickly, and a major inconvenience. Why don't we just "abort" them as well?

Life is life. Life begins at conception, no doubt of that. And mere weeks later it has a heart and the beginnings of a body. So it's definitely life. So I can see 100% your POV. I also believe that a woman has the right to choose early on. So it's a sensitive issue... one that tears me apart.

There is no right answer.

But as I said, this thread isn't about that. It's about life in general and how little that seems to mean to anyone once a child is OUTSIDE of the womb.

 

[Voorhees27]

Look at the middle east, they've been killing each other in the name of their God for 2,000 years. It's never going to end.

wow, in before the lock I guess

 

[Mikey2Bullets]

brother i feel you. i killed a few Fedayeen Saddam over there. sadly, i felt good about it. still do. not because they're different from me or worship differently, or wipe their asses with their hands. it felt good because they slaughtered women and children for waving at passing american convoys. but enough about me.

to me sir you are correct about how religion in all it's good intent causes the most harm. i just saw a special about a HUGE evangelical preacher who had a difference in opinion about the nature of hell. they defrocked him and ruined his life over an utterly intangible and unprovable philosophy. but they circled the wagons around another HUGE preacher who was caught doing butt stuff (big evangelical no no) with a guy in a bathroom while high on meth. but he played ball, religiously speaking, so he's not going to hell.

IMO anyone, ANYONE, who thinks their religion, faith, belief, etc... puts them on higher ground than others and/or goes around imposing/preaching their will ( emotionally, physically, psychologically, etc..) are no different. the only thing different is the packaging, the contents are the same s*it.

it also SICKENS me to no end that ANY faith tries to muddy the already screwed up political system. i've got a town about 20 miles away that only allows people of a certain faith to live there. now THAT'S unconstitutional. they pay no state or county taxes but it's ok for them to demand public services (fire, police, water, electricity, etc..) and if the surrounding towns don't oblige, they sue for religious intolerance. WTF.
i've thought about writing an op-ed piece stating the ridiculousness of their activities by laying out a plan for a satanist only village modeled on their town.

sorry, i don't mean to hijack. but people of faith who throw their values in your face and back it up by spouting spooky language from a special book make me sick.

but in the end, as repulsive as it all seems, it makes this nation worth fighting for. if we were all of one mind, philosophy, what have you, it be real boring. real easygoing, but real boring.

my only tenets of faith.... keep an open mind, be good unless physically threatened, and try to improve and grow everyday.

 

[dr_teng]

The real truth is that there is no right answer to something like Abortion. It's both right and wrong. Which is why it will never ever be solved.

It'll be solved, it just takes time. Views on abortion have been shifting since it's been legalized, and will continue shifting to acceptance of a woman's right to choose, but it's going to be a slow and painful process along the way.

Things are getting better in the world, slowly, but they are. If people want to be hypocritical douchebags with an inability to read the religious texts that they're basing their justification for murder off of, so be it, but their views are dying out. And if they're right about an afterlife, they certainly won't be enjoying theirs.

For the issue of extremism itself, it's dealt with by understanding the root causes of it. I read quite a fascinating study on right-wing extremism (specifically, skinheads from a few years back), and while each type of extremism is different (the same tactics may or may not work on the environmental extremists from a while back), it may help in understanding some of the root causes.

https://www.rickross.com/reference/hate_groups/hategroups355.html < if anyone is interested.

 

[Darth Caedus]

If you want to talk about how views on abortion have evolved, well I think you can almost point directly towards religion. What 100 years ago, most people believed in religion and their beliefs were based on what religion told them to do. Now that our society in general has been pulling away from religion (not everybody, but a chunk) people's views are becoming more progressive and open-minded. This changes how both our society views it, but also how our law interprets it. The law was, after all, first written by religious founding fathers.

 

[Kibishii]

Life is life. Life begins at conception, no doubt of that. And mere weeks later it has a heart and the beginnings of a body. So it's definitely life. So I can see 100% your POV. I also believe that a woman has the right to choose early on. So it's a sensitive issue... one that tears me apart. There is no right answer.
But as I said, this thread isn't about that. It's about life in general and how little that seems to mean to anyone once a child is OUTSIDE of the womb.

Well, I completely respect you for most of your points, but yet again, you are being hypocritical in your arguement. It is ok for a woman to terminate life "early on" yet you then say that life seems to mean so little? In my view, killing an unborn child is the EPITOME of devaluing life.

Why is it ok to 'terminate' an unborn child, but not ok to terminate an elderly person who is going to be a financial burden to a family? Or how about a person who is 18 and gets a triple life sentence with no parole?

The point is that life either HAS value or it DOESN"T. There isn't a middle ground nor a gray area.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Great posts guys! And Mikey, big respect for what you did over there man.

I really do hope that eventually religion dies. I know it sounds blasphemous, but hear me out. I just mean that the system is flawed and needs to be completely forgotten. It was built in a different time, by people whose culture was far behind our own. They had different ideals and an entirely different way of living. It just doesn't apply to our time at all. All major religions were. Believing in God is one thing, or believing in whatever you want... that's fine too.

But once a system gets overlaid atop it, with strict structure, laws and unmovable tenants... it becomes a hindrance to forward movement and can be abused by various individuals for horrible purposes. What is important is just to have a personal belief, that is entirely yours and based on love and understanding. I think that having this kind of outlook will work for acceptance into any afterlife (if there is one) of whatever faith. And it's just a better outlook to have.

It reminds me of a speech a very pious young girl gave a few semesters ago about evolution and how it was 100% wrong. She went on to debunk every major find that has been connected to human evolution, as she made a case for how God drew man in the sand and used a rib bone to make a woman. So it was easier for her to believe that man was created from an abstract shape of sand than from an upright walking ape. No touching on our similar skeletal structure, features, social habits, or the fact that we have tail bones... just blind faith.

I don't think it is wrong for her to have a belief, but her speech was an example of just how inflexible belief is. In the time that the origins of man was written in the Bible, we could not fathom any other way that we got here. And so the explanation was born. But over the years, with countless scientific discoveries... our feelings have changed. Yet a belief cannot be altered, so it must remain. And so children of intensely pious families must be taught that science is wrong and that the belief is right.

Or else it disproves the entire Bible and destroys the belief. Or so the fear states...

It's just kinda funny to me..

 

[Memnoch]

To the main point of the thread.. man kind is stupid and self destructive. We really do only realize how stupid we are when we are at the edge of the cliff with the wolves at our back. Man hardly ever thinks long term, hence the global cluster**** we are in now.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Well, I completely respect you for most of your points, but yet again, you are being hypocritical in your arguement. It is ok for a woman to terminate life "early on" yet you then say that life seems to mean so little? In my view, killing an unborn child is the EPITOME of devaluing life.

Why is it ok to 'terminate' an unborn child, but not ok to terminate an elderly person who is going to be a financial burden to a family? Or how about a person who is 18 and gets a triple life sentence with no parole?

The point is that life either HAS value or it DOESN"T. There isn't a middle ground nor a gray area.

Yes there is. Life is life. We murder BILLIONS of unborn chicken eggs to have a good breakfast. Yet we cry murder when it's a barely formed embryo of a human?

We see ourselves as special and outside of nature, when we are a part of it entirely.

Trust me, I condone no killing at all. BUT, just as I do that... I also think that if a woman has the right to make the decision regarding the life within her that isn't far enough along to have developed thought. Especially when it puts her own life in danger or could face a life of extreme hardship or disease. I don't condone it, but I don't think it is right to determine what a woman can and cannot do with that life (in the early stages) if she so chooses. It's not right for anyone to force belief by law and control it for all citizens.

But then again... to reiterate AGAIN... this thread is NOT about abortion. It's about mankind as a whole, and how our philosophy has kinda imploded upon itself via religion, lack of thought, sheer stupidity, and blind obedience to ANYTHING.