Deadpool & Wolverine (July 26th, 2024)

[MeatHookGekko]

Currently the word “agenda” has been devalued and rendered meaningless because it has no effective purpose beyond its accusatory impulse impact....So the accusations of “agenda” are thrown around without ever defining what it is in this context of genre films. As if it’s a self-defined term, like a shorthand with clear mass cultural understanding, and we’re all supposed to know what that means. Sorry, but it isn’t!....Oddly enough, claiming something like "forced agendas" is an agenda in itself, when used to form an unfounded critique.

"That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it."

- Dayna Craig

There are plenty of female characters in the MCU that the general audience responds very well to and don't receive too much backlash at all. It's just no one in the activist ranks wants to talk about those characters. Lots of people love Yelena Belova, Kate Bishop and Peggy Carter for many of the same reasons they love Wade Wilson as Deadpool ( the writing honors them, the choices have real consequences, there are real character arcs at work, they are being handled by capable performers who can elevate the material they are given, etc, etc)

You disagree? I embrace your right to disagree. But here's the thing, if you keep saying it doesn't exist, if you keep telling the average person something vastly different than what they are seeing with their own two eyes, eventually they will turn on you. That's less about the MCU and identity politics in the industry and more about a practical reality of the overall human condition.

You do you. But be willing to eat the public cost of it.

 

[Dave_W]

View attachment 700725

Evans: Retired from the MCU so Carter and Falcon took Caps place.
Loki: Still Loki, this is just a variant like the 5 other male variants in the show
Boseman: Died
Hulk: Still around but now he has a Hulk Cousin and Son.
Jane: Died. Thor is still Thor

What's your point?

View attachment 700726

Don't all of these characters come from the comics? Haven't some been around for decades? Why is it woke to bring in other characters from the comics that happen to be women? What's wrong with diversifying and trying to have something for everyone?

Why so sensitive?

 

[Otomofan]

He clearly stated the facts and backed it up with evidence. It's right there and it's damning. Every beloved male character was either replaced by a female or had a female counterpart added after the fact.

Why are you so sensitive about people observing a pattern?

 

[Dave_W]

He clearly stated the facts and backed it up with evidence. It's right there and it's damning. Every beloved male character was either replaced by a female or had a female counterpart added after the fact.

Why are you so sensitive about people observing a pattern?

Because he's acting like Disney is practising eugenics instead of just diversifying their content. People either died, their contracts expired or their character was killed off (All 1 of them! Count them all....Stark) There are female counterparts in the comics. Why is it suddenly a big deal to do what's happened in the comics for decades?

 

[Dave_W]

While we all love posting pictures of agendas, how about this. Lets all complain about this agenda...

 

[Mondragon]

While we all love posting pictures of agendas, how about this. Lets all complain about this agenda...

View attachment 700739

Why'd you intentionaly leave off the poc and females? Bigotted?!

LOL some people really can't stand that everyone is going to enjoy this movie more than others.

FYI that Deadpoodle really gives me the heebie-jeebies.

 

[Otomofan]

Every single one of those characters is white in the comics. To use your own words:

Why is it suddenly a big deal to do what's happened in the comics for decades?

 

[Otomofan]

You know what? Never mind. I shouldn't have taken the bait.

I love Wolverine and Deadpool and think they're movie is gonna be cool. I'm not interested in all this other ******** that has nothing to do with that.

 

[Dave_W]

Every single one of those characters is white in the comics. To use your own words:

Why is it suddenly a big deal to do what's happened in the comics for decades?

Ahhhhh, so it's ok to follow the comics if they're white dudes, but follow the comics from decades ago and introduce female counterparts and suddenly Disney is woke trash?? Is that the argument?

You just proved my point. It isn't a woke Disney agenda, it's what happend in the comics decades ago.

 

[meanstreak]

looking forward to the rumored Blake Lively Lady Deadpool variant

 

[jye4ever]

It’s getting crazy.

During the Oscars this year only black actors could read the history on the black actors nominated for awards, don’t believe me go watch the oscars footage from this year.

The Mace Windu premium format could only be shown by a…you guessed it…a black sideshow worker.

It’s like they want to force seperate us!

It’s nuts.

Instead of bringing humanity together, they want everybody separated into their corners.

 

[Dave_W]

Instead of bringing humanity together, they want everybody separated into their corners.

Well Disney/Marvel are trying to introduce a wider variety of character variations so there's something for everyone to enjoy. And who's "they"?

 

[chrisstbh]

Someone please put that dog out of its misery.

 

[ironwez20]

He clearly stated the facts and backed it up with evidence. It's right there and it's damning. Every beloved male character was either replaced by a female or had a female counterpart added after the fact.

Why are you so sensitive about people observing a pattern?

No no oto. Some of these characters have been around for a hot min. Marvel just has many of them are not replacing the former. Marvel just has lots of female characters.

There is a female counter park for every hero. It’s not a replacement.

The only one I disagree and despise is the black panther one because he should have been recasted. I could care less what anyone said.i found it very disrespectful to not only tchallla but bossman to kill him off screen like that. But anyway.

 

[ironwez20]

Well Disney/Marvel are trying to introduce a wider variety of character variations so there's something for everyone to enjoy. And who's "they"?

They meaning the powers that be. I think what he means is instead of just having black characters be black they make it a big deal when a something that pertains to blsck people happens.

I’m black so when the little mermaid came out it was divisive but also it’s like Disney was saying “yea we won’t give you an original Disney princess or a princess and the frog remake but if we make Ariel black will that shut you up? You should be happy we made her black”

Idk it feels like whenever they try and “cater” to us they aren’t sincere about it. They are just like “you should be happy you got this. So don’t complain anymore”

That’s why black characters that are traditionally black are very important to me.

I just feel like stuff like that is not very sincere it’s just trying to gain points.

 

[ironwez20]

I really hope that damn mask isn’t nanotechnology. So lazy and gross. It got old after infinity war

 

[Sachiel]

An agenda implies there is some organized policy and applied practice that forcefully (and perhaps secretly) affects and influences something. In fan culture it’s treated like some phantom thread of thinking that alters existing comforts and upends them. Like a sinister harmful force that corrupts otherwise enjoyable films. Reality check: there are no cabals of witches working to re-engineer and dishonour long-established cultural scripts to exert influence over the minds of victimized youth…

 

[Buttmunch]

looking forward to the rumored Blake Lively Lady Deadpool variant

That would make so much sense to cast her. I hope that’s true.

 

[Dave_W]

They meaning the powers that be. I think what he means is instead of just having black characters be black they make it a big deal when a something that pertains to blsck people happens.

I’m black so when the little mermaid came out it was divisive but also it’s like Disney was saying “yea we won’t give you an original Disney princess or a princess and the frog remake but if we make Ariel black will that shut you up? You should be happy we made her black”

Idk it feels like whenever they try and “cater” to us they aren’t sincere about it. They are just like “you should be happy you got this. So don’t complain anymore”

That’s why black characters that are traditionally black are very important to me.

I just feel like stuff like that is not very sincere it’s just trying to gain points.

They can definitely be ham-fisted about it and the 'insincere' criticism is very valid, it does come across as low effort a lot of the time. But being insincere isn't what the 'woke agenda' claim is, is it? That's what started all of this off. A simple question to a post about agendas. What is this agenda? Nobody has actually answered it in concise terms. I've been given the effects of this so called agenda, but no-one has actually come out and said what it is. What is this manifesto that people are so pissed about?

 

[Bravomite]

My take on this 'agenda' point is that the motivation to diversify is twofold.

It comes in part from a capitalist desire from the bean counters to bring in a larger audience. Star Wars and the MCU naturally have a larger inbuilt male fan base - a calculated risk was taken to grow the audience by diversifying the protagonists of their relevant movies. Star Wars went with strong white female brunette in most of the Disney movies to grow their targetted female audience. The MCU were a little broader in their approach by pushing heroes like black panther, shang chi as well as switching male heroes out in favour of their comic accurate female counterparts. They figured that the core audience would always be there and they could attract different demographics.

Secondly there are 'activists' in Hollywood who would like to effect change. This is overall a good thing but we have unfortunately drifted into a cultural period where people are very much divided on the issue. Some feel that identity politics is now more important than the actual story of the movie and have been conditioned by disappointing movies to knee jerk react to any form of diversity in a negative manner. Those on the otherside see the 'backlash' to what should be a good progressive idea as an attack on their core beliefs which reinforces their impression that such people need to be made to see the light even more.

Often, but not always, diverse characters are not fallible and hard to relate to. There is an idea at the moment that a strong female character must take on traditional masculine attributes and out men the men to be strong (at the expense of traditional female characteristics). This is quite often coincided with male characters taking on the traditional damsel role or just being less intelligent and having less agency than female ones.whilst you might say 'it's about time' or 'now men know how it feels', this isn't going to change the fact that such material will not appeal to your typical male audience. Well written diverse characters like black panther and wonder woman appeal to everyone.

Ultimately, I hope that this period has shown the bean counters that well written characters is the way forward.