Dark Reign (Spoilers)...

[Scar]

With the Secret Invasion now in our wake, we enter a Dark Reign rendering villains the power players, and "hero" a much more elusive concept. I thought we should probably start a topic for this, since it is going to dominate Marvel comics over the coming year.

Anyone care to share their thoughts thus far on the one-shot? The Invincible Iron Man: World's Most Wanted? Mighty Avengers? New Avengers? The upcoming and enigmatic Dark Avengers? The future Thunderbolts? Just some of the titles that are going to figure prominently into the Marvel's future.


Personally, I'm most looking forward to the Thunderbolts. This title has long been my favorite ongoing series, and with an all-new team being brought in, it's likely some of the old team members will carry over to the Dark Avengers while a new team totally devoid of scruples will take over. The Dark Avengers are likely to be the public face of justice under H.A.M.M.E.R. (Anyone have thoughts as to what the acronym may mean?), but the Thunderbolts are likely to become Norman's private enforcers, delivering his personal brand of justice. The Goblin is going to figure into the next few issues rather prominently, apparently assailing the President upon Air Force One, and with Norman doing battle with his private demon in a most public fashion. Also, Bullseye and Venom are still on board; Dark Avengers, anyone? I'm just taking into consideration that they won't be among the new Thunderbolts.

The one-shot was awesome, story-wise... though I wasn't a big fan of the illustration (aside from Doom). It shed a lot of light on the new Dark Illuminati. Norman knows that Emma is not as innocent as she may think, and makes an effort to exploit that, "explaining" her true nature to her in rather black and white terms. Still, we can at least think of Emma s the team's soul in the short term, being arguably the only one with a conscience. The Red Hood remains a wild card, controlling a criminal enterprise, but Norman is the one who is holding all the cards... with his ace in the hole being the shadowy figure behind the door. My bet right now is the Void, considering we saw the Sentry's schizophrenic turn in the middle of battle during the Secret Invasion... and he is a member of the Dark Avengers. That would be enough to give Doom pause, if Norman unveiled the Sentry/the Void as his loyal (being a relative term, considering the Void) weapon. Another interesting development - Doom and Namor having a secret pact to govern the world together; one to rule the land, and one to rule the sea. I thought it interesting that Doom capitulated in acknowledging, if Norman doesn't "implode", a battle will ensue of proportions that would rival any ever seen by our dimension... stunning words from Victor von Doom. This leads one to believe Norman's "friend" is ludicrously powerful, and that Doom recognized Norman as a true threat.

Just some early thoughts, on my part, based on what we've seen. Also, for those who have read the most recent Mighty Avengers, Hank Pym's accusation of Tony's incompetence during Janet's funeral was a true stunner; it took the god of Thunder to quell his anger.

 

[Darkseed]

I'm playing catch up from Civil War, World War Hulk and Invasion. Reading all the GN available. I haven't read a comic book in years but the three stories I'm reading aren't bad. I can't wait to catch up and be involved in discussions about Dark Reign.

 

[Kibishii]

I think the consensus is that Sentry/Void is the being that Osborne is threatening the group with; we were talking about it at the comic shop yesterday and the only other beings that could disrupt the dimension AND scare Doom and Loki would be Dormanamu or Mephisto and I don't see Osborne being able to control either of them.

As of now, Emma is staying with the group to try and protect mutants; remember, Osborne mentioned a law putting all mutants in concentration camps. I also noticed in the Mighty Avengers #20 that Osborne clearly plans on cracking down on the unregistered New Avengers.

I am really looking forward to Osborne's slow decent back into madness and I hope Marvel does it well. I was a bit shocked when Osborne stabbed Swordsman with his own sword and then, seemingly, went insane. I see Tony Stark being the hero at the end of all this and redeeming himself.

 

[The Mike]

I'm also getting a new Iron Man armor by the end of this as well especially looking at the basic design of the IRON PATRIOT.

 

[Scar]

I think the consensus is that Sentry/Void is the being that Osborne is threatening the group with; we were talking about it at the comic shop yesterday and the only other beings that could disrupt the dimension AND scare Doom and Loki would be Dormanamu or Mephisto and I don't see Osborne being able to control either of them.

As of now, Emma is staying with the group to try and protect mutants; remember, Osborne mentioned a law putting all mutants in concentration camps. I also noticed in the Mighty Avengers #20 that Osborne clearly plans on cracking down on the unregistered New Avengers.

I am really looking forward to Osborne's slow decent back into madness and I hope Marvel does it well. I was a bit shocked when Osborne stabbed Swordsman with his own sword and then, seemingly, went insane. I see Tony Stark being the hero at the end of all this and redeeming himself.

I initially thought some mystic and/or extremely powerful being would be considered threatening to Doom and Loki, which left only a few choice people. Dormammu I think we can rule out due to his connection with the Hood, making it a poor way to keep him in line since the Hood is an interdimensional conduit for him. Mephisto we know Doom goes head-to-head with on a regular basis to save his mother's damned soul, so I don't see Doom being fearful of him... however, would he have trepidation when confronted by the man who overwhelmed his crimson bands of Cyttorak, tore his mask from his face, and humbled him before the Avengers and all of Latveria? Answer: Even Doom has his limits, and overpowering the Sentry/Void is one such known limitation... for now. The Sentry/Void is my guess.

I liked that Norman pointed out Emma's viceful character flaws, but then appealed to her philanthropic nature. He covered all of his bases in under 2 minutes... absolutely excellent.

I agree completely about the Swordsman. My biggest "Jesus Christ..." moment literally since the Goblin crucified him; Andreas's personality revolves entirely around his ego and an odd aristocratic sense of nobility. Noble, but he doesn't like to be debased nor considered inferior to anyone or anything. The last time he tried to overwhelm Norman's power, he was beaten, burnt, skewered, and crucified. You'd think he would have learned? But no, his ego got the better of him and he went up against the villain who has just been given the keys to the kingdom. To be throttled, run through with your own blade, and then hurled out of a window down a mountainside... Norman has truly put the Swordsman through the gamut. I wonder now how large a role the Swordsman is going to play in the opposition to the Dark Reign? I'd say he's going to be an increasingly important figure. I'm curious about the order of events, though; whether or not Swordsman has his altercation with Norman before or after he rescues Songbird. I'm thinking before, based on his livid hatred of Norman by the end of Thunderbolts #127. I can see why JQ was more excited about the fallout of Secret Invasion than the actual event. The next year is going to push the envelope in a most badass fashion.

 

[FQRizzo]

I'm also getting a new Iron Man armor by the end of this as well especially looking at the basic design of the IRON PATRIOT.

The Extremis system is gone, btw.

 

[The Mike]

Obviously but I'm thinking it'll be more than a new system in place to replace it, I have a feeling we'll get a whole new look on top of what structurally must be in place.

 

[FQRizzo]

Obviously but I'm thinking it'll be more than a new system in place to replace it, I have a feeling we'll get a whole new look on top of what structurally must be in place.

Interview with Matt Fraction

Sounds like this could be the most interesting Iron Man story in years.

 

[Scar]

I have to say, though, I don't think Tony was really "trying" for a smooth transition. He knew Norman would try to access the registration database and sabotaged the decoy accordingly to bring down the H.A.M.M.E.R. systems. Norman wants a war, and Tony gave him the excuse with that... not that Norman wouldn't have eventually hunted him down anyway. It definitely sounds like perhaps the best Iron Man story in years.

 

[Nodakskip]

I have to say, though, I don't think Tony was really "trying" for a smooth transition. He knew Norman would try to access the registration database and sabotaged the decoy accordingly to bring down the H.A.M.M.E.R. systems. Norman wants a war, and Tony gave him the excuse with that... not that Norman wouldn't have eventually hunted him down anyway. It definitely sounds like perhaps the best Iron Man story in years.

While I have not read that part yet about him screwing with the database... That database is the one thing of the Registration act that had me laughing. Tony Stark made this big stink that only he would know who the heroes were. So the names wouldn't go into the wrong hands.

The idea that somehow a hero can sign a paper with his/her real name and then that info just goes in Tonys computer and thats it, is very unrealistic.

1. The heroes have to show their 'Hero' id cards with their real names to any cops that come to arrest any bad guy they catch. Wonder Man even did a tv add that showed him showing his card to officers.

2. The heroes in the Initiative are known as their real names in Camp Hammond. Thus by any non Skrulls people working there.

No way in hell is that database only accessible by one man. Its the same as a Drivers License. And in the real world government, all files are shown to those who want it.

 

[D. Martin]

I've read Marvel Comics for the last 23 years straight, and I just don't get them anymore. Too many titles. Do we really need 10+ X-titles, 4+ Spidey books, and what, three different Avengers teams? Instead of giving us one go-nowhere cross over event after another, Marvel should consider pulling in the reigns and simply tell good stories in self contained titles.

I'm sick of stories like "Original Sin" that start off as a one shot and then crosses over through two other books. Make a nice 5 issue limited series and leave it at that. Cross overs are an insulting way to get readers to buy more books.

 

[Scar]

While I have not read that part yet about him screwing with the database... That database is the one thing of the Registration act that had me laughing. Tony Stark made this big stink that only he would know who the heroes were. So the names wouldn't go into the wrong hands.

The idea that somehow a hero can sign a paper with his/her real name and then that info just goes in Tonys computer and thats it, is very unrealistic.

1. The heroes have to show their 'Hero' id cards with their real names to any cops that come to arrest any bad guy they catch. Wonder Man even did a tv add that showed him showing his card to officers.

2. The heroes in the Initiative are known as their real names in Camp Hammond. Thus by any non Skrulls people working there.

No way in hell is that database only accessible by one man. Its the same as a Drivers License. And in the real world government, all files are shown to those who want it.

I've thought of it in the sense that when you are presented with a warrant you are compelled by law to comply, and this might include invasion of one's home and privacy, such would be the case when a registered superhuman is asked for their registration identification. When a superhuman is acting, they want it to be an individual sanctioned by the government and not an example of vigilantism, but in order to have the proof that this individual is registered with the government, they encompass the relevant information, such as one's real name, into one grand database, first and foremost to show that these people have nothing to hide and are government employees. As to how the database is accessible only to Tony, it's due to the extremis evolving his biological systems and neurological net, allowing him access to 72% of his brain at all times. You find out in IIM #8 that the database is stored in Tony's head due to the "upgrades" from extremis, and since he's the only one who has access to his own mind, (most of the time and for the time-being... considering how thrilled Norman was to have Emma on the team Tony's mental privacy could well be limited), he is the only one with access.

I've read Marvel Comics for the last 23 years straight, and I just don't get them anymore. Too many titles. Do we really need 10+ X-titles, 4+ Spidey books, and what, three different Avengers teams? Instead of giving us one go-nowhere cross over event after another, Marvel should consider pulling in the reigns and simply tell good stories in self contained titles.

I'm sick of stories like "Original Sin" that start off as a one shot and then crosses over through two other books. Make a nice 5 issue limited series and leave it at that. Cross overs are an insulting way to get readers to buy more books.

I agree that there are a lot of titles for every individual superhero or superhero team, and the same is said of DC and Darkhorse as well. It's the way the game is being played now. The three Avengers teams, though, yes we do need them because of the way the universe has evolved. The Dark Avenger are going to be the only government sanctioned team, whereas under Civil War the Mighty Avengers were said team and the New Avengers became the heroes turned outlaws because they refused to register. Now, from what I understand, Dark Avengers will be the series taking the place of Mighty Avengers for the time being. Still, I understand the frustration and confusion about so many titles for just one or two characters (the number of Batman titles in DC has my head spinning). I also understand the compulsion to have stories connected to a major event; it would be like having several stories take place in the 1940s and not have the characters discuss nor be impacted by WWII; Dark Reign needs to be addressed across a wide number of books since it is going to impact the way all heroes act and are treated. Do we need so many Spidey and X-Men books? Some would argue yes, I don't think so myself, but I do get the grounding of many stories in the current events most germane to the characters.

 

[Scar]

Considering what's been said about crossovers, did anyone else notice that the a few of the upcoming issues of Thunderbolts and Deadpool are going to be crossover arcs? I thought that a bit unusual, since storylines like "New Ways to Die" encompassed most members of the Thunderbolts, but was never a crossover event. Just found it a bit odd. Should make for interesting storytelling at least.

I'm very curious what roles Bullseye and Venom are going to be playing under the new regime. There's the new black Spidey figure on the Dark Avengers... but also a Hawkeye and a Wolverine...?

... so I'm not sure whether or not black Spidey is Gargan; or for that matter if the new Hawkeye is Bullseye, though they would both make sense.

Also, what does everyone think about the makeup of the new Thunderbolts team that are now just apparently going to be Norman's private hit squad.
The new interview with Andy Diggle makes it sound like he'll be writing what will doubtless by my favorite book over the coming year (it already was my favorite series, but damn, check out this https://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6449.Dark_Reign-Makers~colon~_Andy_Diggle). As far as the public knows, the Thunderbolts are disbanded, but really Norman has just taken them underground so that they don't have to answer to anyone other than him, and so that he can dispatch any dissenters to his reign, superhuman or otherwise.

Yelena Belova (with an awesome widow-themed face mask), Ant-Man, the Ghost... and a long list of virtual "C-List" cast members; I like Diggle's attitude about taking on unknown characters because you have a lot of wiggle room to do what you'd like with them. It has great potential for a team entirely composed of reprobates whose behavior is about to become infamous across the Marvel U.

 

[Mithrandier]

As stated in the Secret Invasion thread, Osborne's Wolverine is actually Daken, Wolverine's son.

His left arm is tatted up and his middle claws are coming out frin the palm side of his hand.

 

[Mithrandier]

I agree that there are a lot of titles for every individual superhero or superhero team, and the same is said of DC and Darkhorse as well. It's the way the game is being played now. (the number of Batman titles in DC has my head spinning).

Don't bring this talk of the sad WB company into Marvel's home.
We are all trying to have some productive conversation, and you start cursing like that.
Don't do that.
Do not acknowledge D(irty)C(rap).

 

[Scar]

Don't bring this talk of the sad WB company into Marvel's home.
We are all trying to have some productive conversation, and you start cursing like that.
Don't do that.
Do not acknowledge D(irty)C(rap).

Noticed Daken's claws but forgot to continue the discussion on this forum. Should make things interesting. Spidey's going to become a key player in the overarching event itself, obviously, and I'm sure we're going to see a widely recognized redemption for Tony in the long-run, but as Norman pointed out to other members of his Cabal, it is going to be a bad year for Iron Man. I don't see Hank Pym forgiving Tony in the immediate future for his flawed oversight resulting in Janet's death, nor does Thor seem like the evident "forgive and forget" type at the moment... but his mind may change in time, considering what Loki has brewing and her ties to the Dark Illuminati now.

 

[Scar]

With a lot of Dark Avengers and Iron Patriot pics being thrown around, I was wondering if anyone had any new thoughts on his identity. I know we've talked about it a little bit already, but the more imagery that pops up of the Iron Patriot around Marvel U as Dark Reign begins, the more I think he'll come to be a focal symbol of Norman's new reign... which makes me wonder whether or not the Iron Patriot is, or has ties to, Norman's secret benefactor. The mystery man and the Iron Patriot are both in positions of increasing importance and both of their identities are shrouded in anonymity. Anyone else care to venture a guess?

 

[Shai]

So Ares and Sentry have changes teams now and are bad guys ??? not sure if I will follow this comic event, but am definitely interested.

 

[Bonehead15]

I've read Marvel Comics for the last 23 years straight, and I just don't get them anymore. Too many titles. Do we really need 10+ X-titles, 4+ Spidey books, and what, three different Avengers teams? Instead of giving us one go-nowhere cross over event after another, Marvel should consider pulling in the reigns and simply tell good stories in self contained titles.

I'm sick of stories like "Original Sin" that start off as a one shot and then crosses over through two other books. Make a nice 5 issue limited series and leave it at that. Cross overs are an insulting way to get readers to buy more books.

I agree, somewhat.


I find it funny how the world of comics has evolved so much in the last 10+ years. I remember back in 1998-99 at SDCC , forget which one, where Marvel and DC both were hurting from poor sales and said that they weren't going to do any more HUGE crossover series cause it was hard to attract new readers when you were in the middle of a crossover. 10 years later and the only thing we get nowadays are Company Crossovers.

I personally don't mind crossovers since they seem to bring the whole "universe" together. Nowadays though, the only thing the "big two" are doing are crossovers. As soon as one ends, another crossover starts. It's almost like Marvel and DC are forcing their fans to buy EVERY one of their titles on the market or you'll miss something about the crossover. One crossover every other year is fine but it's become overkill IMO.

It's like the new comic "gimmick." In the 90's it was special covers. In today's market it's crossovers. Just another reason to force your readers to buy more books.

Don't bring this talk of the sad WB company into Marvel's home.
We are all trying to have some productive conversation, and you start cursing like that.
Don't do that.
Do not acknowledge D(irty)C(rap).

Stop shoveling that


Marvel isn't any better than DC. That just shows how naive you are. Stop drinking all that Quesada Kool-Aid.

 

[Bardoon]

The black Spidey can very well be Gargan (aka Scorpion) forced by Osborn to have the Venom symbiote replicate the original black suit.

Therefore having the original red 'n blue Spidey portrayed as the "villain" and the black Spidey/Venom portrayed more as a hero.

Interesting catch that the brown suit Wolvie is Daken!!!