AVP:Requiem - SPOILER THREAD

[DouglasMcc]

I do like spotting little homages or references to other films....... saw Aliens 1-4 last night and picked up on a few things in Alien 3........see if you can spot the prop used in the openning few mintes of Alien that was also on the desk of Andrews, played by Brian Glover...

The same "dipping bird" appears on the warden's desk as was seen in the original Alien (1979).

I am a genius ... who knows how to use IMDB ...

 

[tigerfeet]

Genius...................does it list all of the other bits as well ?

I do prefer the Special edition of Alien3, does make more of David Finchers work.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

All those things aside, let me get this straight:

It's December 25th so all the other Predators are either on vacation or hung over. So Wolf is on monitor duty and catches the highlights of how one Predalien took out an entire ship full of Predators and managed to run interference to make the ship crash.

What does "Wolf" do? he grabs a mask and something else and heads over there to play "cover up" more than to fight. Never mind getting some back up when you see the massive infestation of Aliens led by the Predalien. The dude is going to take all of them by himself. He didn't even pack a great assortment of weapons. He improvised by picking up most of what he used from the fallen ship.

What went wrong? I expected a posse of Predators dealing with the Aliens like we saw in that sewer scene and vice versa. The humans that got caught in the middle were irrelevant to the gore we were going to see. Much like those 2 dudes that got their heads blown off or the blond that took the shuriken to the chest. That's why the movie fell short. It was entertaining for what it was but they missed the point of what we go see these kind of movies for. We want to identify with either the Aliens or the Predators. The humans are expendable. That's why most of them were B-movie caliber actors.

 

[DouglasMcc]

If you look under trivia, it lists a lot of cool facts for all 4 movies. My favorites?

Aliens
"The difficulties surrounding Sigourney Weaver's contract negotiations were such that James Cameron and Gale Anne Hurd - recently married - announced that if the deal was not done by the time they got back from their honeymoon, they were out. When they returned, no progress had been made - so James Cameron, determined to make the film and wary of the deadline scenario he had created, devised a scheme: he telephoned Arnold Schwarzenegger's agent for an informal chat and informed him that, thanks to his newfound standing in Hollywood following The Terminator (1984), he had decided to make this film entirely his own by writing Ripley out; as James Cameron anticipated, Arnold Schwarzenegger's agent immediately relayed the information to his colleague representing Sigourney Weaver at ICM, who in turn contacted 20th Century-Fox Head of Production Lawrence Gordon; both men, determined that under no circumstances whatsoever would Ripley be written out, wasted no time in sealing Sigourney Weaver's deal."

"Although the first script draft turned in on 30 May 1985 was very close to the final film, some scenes in this version were dropped in the final film. Those include:

* A shower scene with Ripley in a futuristic shower environment Ripley going into more detail about the facehuggers while briefing the Marines, calling the facehugger "a walking sex organ" to which Hudson replies, "Sounds like you, Hicks."
* There are thirty atmospheric processing units on the planet, as opposed to only one in the final film.
* Newt formally offering Ripley to be her daughter
* Bishop encountering an alien while crawling along the tunnel (this scene also appeared in the final script but neither in the theatrical release nor in the Special Edition)
* The second drop ship refueling itself before leaving the Sulaco under Bishop's remote control.
* The first draft also included a scene with a cocooned Burke, which was shot but not included in any of the versions of the movie." - Love the Sex Organ joke ...

Alien3
"One early draft of the script focused almost entirely on Hicks, Bishop and Newt, played in Aliens (1986) by Michael Biehn, Lance Henriksen and Carrie Henn respectively. The story would tie up loose ends from the preceding film with Newt returning to Earth to live with her grandparents, as well as Hicks and Bishop and a new team of Colonial Marines battling a rival faction of planets who use the Alien as a bio-weapon." Sounds like it would have kicked ass .. even without Ripley. This is where the famous (or infamous) -On Earth, Everyone Can Hear You Scream early tag line came from.

"One possible idea for the film included a chest-burster coming out of Michael Biehn's character, Hicks. A replica of the actor with his chest torn open was created, but after Biehn discovered this, he threatened to sue the producers for using his likeness without his consent, and the idea was dropped. Later, the producers paid him to use his picture at the beginning of the film for the computer sequence. Apparently he received more money for use of this one image than for his role in Aliens (1986)."

Alien Resurrection
"To achieve the shot where the camera travels inside Leland Orser to see the alien fetus about to be birthed, Orser had a camera shoved down his throat and then pulled out. This was then reversed." - Ouch

"Sigourney Weaver was paid $11 million to come back as Ripley, more than the entire cost of Alien (1979)".

 

[DouglasMcc]

What does "Wolf" do? he grabs a mask and something else and heads over there to play "cover up" more than to fight. Never mind getting some back up when you see the massive infestation of Aliens led by the Predalien. The dude is going to take all of them by himself. He didn't even pack a great assortment of weapons. He improvised by picking up most of what he used from the fallen ship.

That's not what I took from Wolf. The shot of his facial damage (the scarring and missing tusks) looked like acid damage from an Alien. Maybe it wasn't the brightest tactical move, but I took it as either A.) he was on a personal Crusade against the species for the damages/ disgraces he suffered or B.) that was his job - he was being rather stealthy and disposing of the evidence ... don't you think a Predator army would have drawn too much attention, even with stealth armor?

 

[MaulFan]

Alright, just got back from seeing this movie finally. First, the short thoughts.

1) Not as terrible as some made it out to be.

2) More entertaining from start to finish than AVP start to finish.

3) Left me thinking this was the creative process to layout the film:

"Okay guys, we need to make a sequel, so everyone write down your favorite moments from ALIEN, ALIENS and Predator and we'll mesh it all into a new movie."


That said, one thing I liked was also the thing I hated most about the film, and that was homage to the originals. Way, way, way, wayyyyyyyyy too much of it to the point where I felt like the writers had zero originality in them. From National Guardsman flanking in rain just like Colonial Marines in ALIENS to the beach unveiling of Wolf on earth like the first time you get a real good look at the Predator in the original film. I'm glad these people can identify WHAT we enjoyed in the early films, but they miss the mark on WHY. No one is looking for an Aliens or Predator rehash, we want fresh ideas done right.

This ties to another issue I have with both AVP films, and that is the need the filmmakers feel to throw in every possible link between AVP's and the other films, and not in a good way. The only way I see a good AVP story coming is if the writers abandon both the current AVP storyline and the storyline's of Alien and Predator. Take as minimal from those films as necessary and start from scratch. Take the concept of an abandoned ship full of eggs from Alien and come up with some way for space marines or something to get involved and have the Predators somehow end up there as well, then you get an all out war of Aliens, Predators and human soldiers, with humans to provide dialogue because you couldn't just watch 2 hours of Aliens and Predators without some dialogue of sorts.

My last big issue is with the Wolf and he made me realize why the Preds in these films aren't as enjoyable as in P1 and P2. Granted, Wolf's job was a cleaner and that's fine, I was ok with that more than the AVP Preds, but the issue at hand was, in P1 and P2, the Predators were hunters, collecting trophies and looking for challenges to test their skill. In the AVP films, they'be been more like soldiers or warriors, they fight good, but there's a lack of qualities to make them seem like hunters. Overall, I enjoyed the Wolf, the best of the AVP series Predators, but I felt like his coolness ran out too soon. He was badass and a skilled fighter for about 75% of the film, and then in the end, he was just, meh, which was dissappointing, he'd been built up so well and then he was just there.

Anyway, I didn't think it was ALL bad, I'll get into my likes after, need to grab some dinner first, then conclude my thoughts.

 

[SolidLiquidFox]

That's not what I took from Wolf. The shot of his facial damage (the scarring and missing tusks) looked like acid damage from an Alien. Maybe it wasn't the brightest tactical move, but I took it as either A.) he was on a personal Crusade against the species for the damages/ disgraces he suffered or B.) that was his job - he was being rather stealthy and disposing of the evidence ... don't you think a Predator army would have drawn too much attention, even with stealth armor?

I think they established in the previous AVP that it is not beyond them to work in packs. At least those 3 Predators in the previous film looked like they could work together if they needed to.

I think once Wolf saw a new hybrid species causing havok and exposing their civilization the way it did, it was time to call in backup. I don't suggest an army of Predators but a small posse of at least 7 well trained of them. It would have made for a more entertaining movie to me. These AVP movies always turn out to be one Predator Vs a hive of Aliens that are too numerous to beat without a huge bomb at the end.

 

[Bardoon]

Not to say that it's considered "canon", but the "expanded universe" of Predator can explain some of why just ONE Predator was sent out there.

According to the "comics" caste system, there is a caste of Predators called HONORED (solo hunters, a la the Predator from PREDATOR (1) and PREDATOR 2, until we saw the rest of the clan) and ARBITRATORS (Predator "law enforcement", usually ELDERS bored of the regular hunt and go after renegade Predators). Wolf could very well fall into the Arbitrators class in which he just happened to be the one guy "on call" to clean up this mess.

Also, in the recent PREDATOR: CONCRETE JUNGLE video game, a lone Predator's hunt was screwed up in the 1930's and he tried to escape, leaving some of his equipment behind, and tried to self-destruct himself and his ship, but he didn't die. But he and his race were exposed and the equipment he left behind was exploited and reverse-engineered for human uses. The Predator (nicknamed "Scarface" because his eye was shot out) was exiled for 100 years and then picked back up by his clan and sent back to Earth by himself to clean up the mess he left years ago.

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

I too think the movie was fine for what it was. I got enjoyment out of it. I'm not saying I'm still not dreaming of a better, big budget AVP movie with an amazing script, or that we as fans haven't been continually boned by this (and the individual) franchises treatment by Fox every step of the way.
I'm just saying I knew walking in this wasn't going to be ALIENS quality, so was able to take SOME enjoyment out of it (I took NO enjoyment what-so-ever out of Aliens 4), so for me, this was a step up.

My biggest complaint is that the Wolf Predator could have been made to look MORE kick-a$$, and where that really fell short was in the direction. He could have done the same things just shot more dynamically and looked like the super-Predator he was reported to be in the interviews. As it was he was good, but to me not as amazing as he was reported to be, and that was disappointing (yeah, I'm pro-Predator...)

 

[IrishJedi]

Saw it this afternoon with Atom Hues. We got a tad liquored up first and had a blast at this flick.

Not a good movie by any stretch. But quite entertaining, with so many riffs on both of the original series that we were chuckling and elbowing each other the whole way through.

I don't understand the hate for this. Some people must have been expecting WAY too much. This was at least multiple times better than AvP.

(But, yeah, the human stuff will always produce the suckage in these flicks)

 

[AdamBombOi]

Not to say that it's considered "canon", but the "expanded universe" of Predator can explain some of why just ONE Predator was sent out there.

According to the "comics" caste system, there is a caste of Predators called HONORED (solo hunters, a la the Predator from PREDATOR (1) and PREDATOR 2, until we saw the rest of the clan) and ARBITRATORS (Predator "law enforcement", usually ELDERS bored of the regular hunt and go after renegade Predators). Wolf could very well fall into the Arbitrators class in which he just happened to be the one guy "on call" to clean up this mess.

Also, in the recent PREDATOR: CONCRETE JUNGLE video game, a lone Predator's hunt was screwed up in the 1930's and he tried to escape, leaving some of his equipment behind, and tried to self-destruct himself and his ship, but he didn't die. But he and his race were exposed and the equipment he left behind was exploited and reverse-engineered for human uses. The Predator (nicknamed "Scarface" because his eye was shot out) was exiled for 100 years and then picked back up by his clan and sent back to Earth by himself to clean up the mess he left years ago.

Man, I am glad someone got out what I wanted to say to SO many people. Thank you sir, thank you a TON!

 

[MaulFan]

OK, so back to my thoughts on the film.

One final negative, the PredAlien - Wolf battle was a bit lackluster to me. I found the fight between the Queen and Scar in the first AVP to be more interesting, dynamic and ferocious. This battle was a bit short and I just wasn't blown away, I expected the show down of show downs and I enjoyed watching Wolf against the drones much more so.

So, I imagine it must seem hard to imagine with all that said that I enjoyed myself at all watching this film, but there were things I liked.

First thing I liked was the use of musical snippets from the first films in these series, they have become themes for these creatures so it's good to see them back to highlighting their presence, like the tribal tones for the Predators.

I also liked the filming style with the Alien warriors and not making them overally prominent in your vision.

The PredAlien was a successful new creature, and I'll say new because even though the concept was apparent in comics/games whatever, I only follow the films and it was fresh and done well, compared to the tragedy that was the human-Alien hybrid in Resurrection. I liked how it made noises like the Queen in Aliens and I liked that the Alien warriors made sounds like in ALIENS as well. I also like that it was a methodical creature, more like the Predators

Wolf, as I said, is the best of the AVP Preds in my mind. I enjoyed his fighting style, his weapons were pretty wild, the new ones anyway, especially the whip, that things was wild to watch and the way it ripped apart the one warrior that you got to see was just crazy. I loved how a lot of the warriors were dispatched with seeming ease for the Wolf because he was so good he just took them out but some put up a fight. The only thing other than the early climax of his coolness, that I didn't like was when he was maskless, I was hoping to hear the usual Predator roar and the new thing they used just didn't have the same impact for me.

Overall, it was a pretty good popcorn flick, but these movies could still be better. For example, Transformers was a great popcorn movie, just sheer fun, but at the same time, the human in it were engaging enough that you were drawn into the events with them even though the overall premise is giant robots fighting. Same needs to apply here for these to be better films, the humans have to be engaging for you also and not cookie cutter ripoffs of pre-existing characters from the series.

Final negative thought about a small point but valid nonetheless, talk about utter bull**** to have the U.S. army just bomb a town away. I've seen Outbreak (GREAT movie if you haven't seen it) and in a similar situation, there was a drawn out story line of how you just can't blow up town's to cover things up and it was believeable and emotional and pulled you into the story, but this movie just suspended the value of human life, further adding to you not caring about the human characters.

So, in the end, do I feel like I wasted my time seeing this, not at all. Will I buy the eventual DVD, certainly, I have all the films in these series and it's good enough to watch again. Do I treasure it like ALIEN, ALIENS and Predator, certainly not. Will I still buy all 3 Hot Toys figures, ABSOLUTELY. The creatures were great, their context was so-so. Out of 4 stars, I'd give it about 2.5.

 

[IrishJedi]

At the end of the day, I also loved the creature designs in this movie so much better than the last one and I'm glad I have all 3 Hot Toys figures on order with Sideshow.

 

[MaulFan]

At the end of the day, I also loved the creature designs in this movie so much better than the last one and I'm glad I have all 3 Hot Toys figures on order with Sideshow.

5 star figures for damn sure

 

[Jamal]

Ahh ... so it was fine when Newt said it, but it makes no sense with the other child ... right

You seem like a cool guy Jamal, but even you have to realize that logic is a crock of ... "chocolate" ...

Yeah your right any child would say it, but its a cool coincidence that her dad died and her mum flew em all to safety and shes the new heroine

 

[The Mike]

Just got back from the film and before I read Maulfan's post and everyone else's let me post my initial reaction.

THE FILM SUCKED.

Throughout watching the entire film I felt as if I was watching a film in process, the cuts were awkward from scene to scene not to mention that there was too much going on without explanation. I would have even appreciated alien language with subtitles. Way to much time spent on the humanistic part of the story with characters that didn't even add up to much anyway, the human stories were all forced and predictable and because they didn't play into the filming like the first one even the main character "Dallas" they were unneeded and completely a waste of my time.

The Predalien was an amazing design and executed well, the aliens were well done as well.....too bad the PredAlien was barely shown and everything occurred in such darkness that it was hard to see and follow the action.

The Wolf was amazingly captured, he felt tribal to me and really gave off the impression that he was there to clean things up although I would have loved to know some backstory even in flashback connecting his injuries with his current status of "clean-up". I liked the addition of the fallen Predators' weaponary and the moment of silence Wolf gave his fallen brother.

The film itself wasn't bad until about the middle but awkward still, the humans were flashes in the beginning with a lot of focus on the Pred and Aliens but in the middle it seemed to flip with the movements of both creatures jagged and strange without any kind of fluid motion. The final showdown could have been omitted in all reality. I expected so much more especially with the previews giving me hope but the fight itself was lame.

I liked the fights between the Predator and the standard Aliens because it showed how seasoned a warrior he was but I scratched my head at why it seemed like the Predalien was the "Big Boss" and the others were lowly henchman.

There was so much that needed explanation and the ending was so thrown together that it was the icing on top of the crap sandwich that was this film. Bombing a whole town for no reason at all except containment? You mean the military said "What the hell are you?" (nice Arnold throwback just like "Get to the chopper") and no desire to want to capture and study? What the hell was with the Asian lady at the end seeing the weaponary? "Its not for this world..." WTF? It really felt like they cut one film in half and it left off in the middle. The Predator killed anything that stood in his way and had one disc left yet saw his gun being taken by a human and hesitated? WTF!?! The big battle was only like five minutes? WTF?!?! The Wolf Pred was amazing in the first half of the film but in his final test he comes up short? WTF!?!?

All in all I left wanting. I left feeling like I wasted my money. The film could be cut together in about twenty minutes in all they left and still have more continuity than the final edit. I'm hoping an expanded DVD will make more sense but it'll be Netflix'd if seen at all.

The character designs were great, the Wolf gave a feel like the original Pred and his size was impressive, the Aliens and Predaliens were nicely done so the HT figures will be money well spent but I'm seriously glad I didn't get any higher end merchandising.


Disappointing just isn't strong enough of a word. I wasn't expecting Citizen Kane but I was expecting a film that felt like it had a rational beginning, middle and end. I didn't even think this was a good blow up action flick. There were parts that had a good feel or that were impressive but I must distinctly say PARTS. Overall, the flick I felt was much more disappointing than the first AvP. At least that plotline made sense, this one if I didn't read so much before heading into the theaters I would have had no friggin clue what was going on, I had to explain so much to my wife because she wanted to remain spoiler free.

TWO BIG THUMBS DOWN

 

[Jamal]

I agree with alot of what you said, the end battle was meek and unworthy, BUT i believe we all ruined a portion of it ourselves by watching the RED BAND trailer. NOTHING came as a surprise to me in the whole film DAMN YOU FOX for releasing a trailer that sums the whole movie up in 1 minute

 

[MaulFan]

I found I wasn't affected by the trailer, in fact some things went down in ways expected differently the way the trailer was cut. I think everything I felt was a shortcoming with the film had nothing to do with expectation and was all based on how it unfolded before me. I took it all as it came and there were just points that came where the mindless film watcher in me went yayyy and the thoughtful adult in me scratched my head and said WTF.

 

[The Mike]

The big issue is that it felt like a fan made film on YouTube and not a big ticket film for theater release....This one could have been great if some attempt to storytell had been made especially with Wolf a dynamic and original character that was treated no different than any of the supporting AvP Predators.....I felt more connected to Scar than to Wolf..... I am still shaking my head at this film.

 

[MaulFan]

The big issue is that it felt like a fan made film on YouTube and not a big ticket film for theater release

That kinda sums up how all the "homage" moments made me feel, and there were so many elements. The strong female, take charge lead with a young child at her side mirroring Ripley was over the top, the tank moments were way to reflective of the ATV scenes in ALIENS. So much of this film felt like a rehash of what'd been done just with different elements. Again, overall, partly because of that, I found it more visually entertaining than AVP, but as much as I didn't care for the plot of AVP, it was at least original and executed as decently as it could be. AVPR feels uninspired and unimaginative. I can't help but think, what goes through FOX's minds, seriously. They make the decision of, "Yes! Let's make another Alien/Predator film", but then seem to make a choice too of, "but we don't care much about it, so we'll stick with lesser creative teams to execute it." These films, including Alien Resurrection, really make me think why did they even bother taking on these projects if the films weren't going to get the type of production support needed to make a good film. Hell issues made Alien 3 less than what it could have been. Cameron and Scott and McTiernan are great at the types of films they do, and did great with this material but it's like FOX just wants to put out movies and care only about the few bucks they get out of these new movies and don't care that they're lack of effort behind them is destroying some exciting properties. The only plus is each effort only makes the classics seem that much better. Fox should sell new packages of Alien, Aliens and Predator around the release of each of these new films, bet sales would be pretty high.