Advice Needed! Bought an item with paypal, now seller is refusing to cancel.

[scohrdarkshadow]

So I went on ebay, tried to buy a used figure (DX12). Ended up paying directly through paypal since the buyer and I couldn't agree on a best offer through ebay (the seller messaged me to suggest doing this so he could avoid ebay fees). This was Monday after 9pm (yesterday).

And then I found the exact same figure at almost the same price, but new and sealed in the box. So I messaged him 4pm today to cancel.

The seller hadn't shipped it out yet (he said he wouldn't get it out until thursday or friday). But he had slipped in a note on the paypal invoice he sent me that there were no returns. Now he is refusing to cancel the order.

Any ideas of what can be done? I understand the seller must be frustrated...but dude hasn't even shipped it out yet.

 

[Taibhse]

So I went on ebay, tried to buy a used figure. Ended up paying directly through paypal since the buyer and I couldn't agree on a best offer through ebay (the seller messaged me to suggest doing this so he could avoid ebay fees). This was Monday after 9pm (yesterday).

And then I found the exact same figure at almost the same price, but new and sealed in the box. So I messaged him 4pm today to cancel.

The seller hadn't shipped it out yet (he said he wouldn't get it out until thursday or friday). But he had slipped in a note on the paypal invoice he sent me that there were no returns. Now he is refusing to cancel the order.

Any ideas of what can be done? I understand the seller must be frustrated...but dude hasn't even shipped it out yet.

Fairly sure the seller will have incurred a PayPal fee since you have paid, which also means you are indeed backing out of a sales agreement.
Since the seller hasn't shipped the item, you should offer the equivalent of a 're-stocking' fee to cover the seller's costs and inconvenience.. this would be fair to both parties, no?

Edit - Its worth noting that 'no returns' notices by sellers are largely either unenforceable or actually illegal.. for example, the commonest reason for a buyer wishing to return an item is because it is faulty (not fit for purpose), not as described (false advertising) or damaged in transit (seller's responsibility, since the shipping contract is between the courier and the seller for purposes of insurance).. in all those cases whether the seller likes it or not, consumer law (and therefore Credit Card companies, PayPal and/or eBay) protects the buyer.

 

[Adoptedscot]

It doesn't matter if he hasn't shipped out yet. If you want to back out now it seems to me to be buyers remorse and as far as I'm aware - unless both buyer and seller agree to cancel the transaction, the seller will lose the fees.

I believe a cancellation has to be agreed by both parties though for the seller to be reimbursed, but that still doesn't reimburse their time and effort gone into it.

As taibhse mentioned an offer of a 're-stocking bonus' of some sort may placate him into cancelling the deal but as far as I'm aware, he doesn't have to and could ship your item asap.
At least, that's how I understand it. Maybe give paypal a call to confirm/ seek advice?.
x

 

[SwampYack]

It sounds like you low balled him into submission and now you changed your mind. You are the exact type of person i hate to deal with.

 

[scohrdarkshadow]

It sounds like you low balled him into submission and now you changed your mind. You are the exact type of person i hate to deal with.

Nope. He listed it at $315. I made one offer of $280 which he turned down. Then he messaged me to work through paypal. It's not a good idea to go through life making strong negative assumptions about people. I LOVE you swampyack

 

[Taibhse]

Scohrdarkshadow, you still need to recognise you are bailing on an agreed sales contract.

..also just for a moment forget your lust for the shiny, new, untouched toy.. and imagine that you are the seller and a buyer is backing out of an agreed, discounted deal on you, when you have incurred a cost in good faith.. you have probably already taken the time to carefully package the item and were simply waiting for a moment in your schedule, when you could get to the parcel office.

 

[Remy]

You both made an agreement.
You're the one that's backing out, after you both finalized an agreement.
It's up to the seller if he wishes to be nice enough to refund, but he doesn't need to, you made an agreement.

If they agreed to be nice enough, then they have to deal in relisting the item again, and that can be frustrating cause they could have missed an opportunity selling it to a true interested buyer who may be now looking at another figure instead.

 

[SwampYack]

I LOVE you swampyack

Get in line buddy.

 

[scohrdarkshadow]

Scohrdarkshadow, you still need to recognise you are bailing on an agreed sales contract.

..also just for a moment forget your lust for the shiny, new, untouched toy.. and imagine that you are the seller and a buyer is backing out of an agreed, discounted deal on you, when you have incurred a cost in good faith.. you have probably already taken the time to carefully package the item and were simply waiting for a moment in your schedule, when you could get to the parcel office.

I've sold before, and definitely been in the seller's predicament before. So on a level I understand what he's going through. It's very annoying.

To your first point, I agree, as far as I could tell I don't have many options of backing out of it, which is why I solicited other people's advice to see if I'd missed anything. It's unfortunate he slipped in the final sale note in the invoice. His return policy had never been discussed before, which may be partially my fault.

That being said, as a seller I've always gone ahead and cancelled. People buy things all the time, get it shipped to them, change their mind and return it. Which is 10x more of a hassle.

I told him about 18hrs later, and he hadn't even come close to shipping it out yet. And if he did package it, well he was going to have to package it eventually anyway when he sold it to somebody else. That's been the justification I've given myself as a seller in that position.

 

[Lejuan]

Yeah, I agree with Taibhse - best way forward is to offer a sweetener to the seller for being a bit of a pain.

 

[scohrdarkshadow]

Yeah, I agree with Taibhse - best way forward is to offer a sweetener to the seller for being a bit of a pain.

Yeah thanks for the advice. I just tried that...unfortunately didn't work. Seller said he lost his job and already used the money to pay his rent. Not sure if it's just a made up sob story but I felt bad enough for him that I caved. Not much I can do anyway.

 

[Taibhse]

Yeah thanks for the advice. I just tried that...unfortunately didn't work. Seller said he lost his job and already used the money to pay his rent. Not sure if it's just a made up sob story but I felt bad enough for him that I caved. Not much I can do anyway.

..you did the right thing.. that new, shiny, toy would have become a used and displayed toy the moment you got your paws on it, anyway.

 

[Lejuan]

Yeah, the MISB unboxing experience is nice enough, but it's fleeting. If you've got an as-new figure coming your way I'd be pretty happy about it. Some of my favourite figures I picked up pre-owned

 

[SAB]

The best way forward here is honour the deal you actually made.

If you really have been in the sellers position before then you should understand just how annoying it is when people try to pull this stuff.

"Yeah but...." "Well you see...."

Nope ....you agreed, you've paid. The end.

Don't be a prick. Accept the transaction is done and enjoy the figure when it arrives.

Unless by 'used' you mean it is damaged in some way. Otherwise the difference is negligible and mostly in peoples imagination.
What does sealed mean for Hot Toys? That the little clear plastic circle is still on there? Who cares?

 

[Y4NK33 PL4N3T]

Agree with Sab, honor the deal you haggled for.

You said twice in the Op "he hasn't even shipped yet" like you've been waiting 2 weeks for him to ship when in reality it's been slightly more than a day since you struck the deal and the seller made it clear when he'd be shipping.

 

[scohrdarkshadow]

Don't be a prick. Accept the transaction is done and enjoy the figure when it arrives.

Unless by 'used' you mean it is damaged in some way. Otherwise the difference is negligible and mostly in peoples imagination.
What does sealed mean for Hot Toys? That the little clear plastic circle is still on there? Who cares?

Calling one a "prick" is a little strong. People change their minds and return things all the time. It's pretty common in US commerce

I'm saying it hadn't shipped in the sense that I informed him before he shipped it so that the amount of wasted work he spent is negligible (compared to if I had waited to receive the item and then returned it). If he had packaged the item already (which I doubt considering he said he was too busy to deal with it until thurs/fri), well it would have to be packaged in the future when somebody else had to buy it anyway.

Net he spent some energy messaging with me, and 18hrs lost when it could have been listed.
On my end $300 is a large investment (especially as a first hot toys. Never spent more than $20 on a figure before) so I think I have a good right to at least make an effort if I changed my mind.

Edit: I didn't realize I would get such a strong negative response from some people (although thanks to some for the advice). But having been on both sides of it, I just think being out $300 for something you don't want is much much more significant than a bit of lost time messaging back and forth (which merely qualifies as an annoyance in my book). That's why I've always honored a buyer's request to cancel.

 

[SAB]

Calling one a "prick" is a little strong. People change their minds and return things all the time. It's pretty common in US commerce

Y4NK33: I'm saying that in the sense that I informed him before he shipped it so that the amount of wasted work he spent is negligible (compared to if I had waited to receive the item and then returned it).

I'm not saying you're a prick all the time .... just in this particular action

Yeah people return things to retail stores ...staff there are paid to stand there and deal with this stuff. Personal selling ebay is different ...which you know because you've done so.

As I said, if you've sold on ebay you know how frustrating this is from the seller ...who has done nothing wrong.

You can't just say his wasted work is negligible ... selling on ebay is a nightmare in general. He has to deal with relisting and then answering stupid questions (and yes most questions are stupid you receive on ebay) plus deal with low ball offers for x amount of time until he can finally resell....and risk all this happening again, or have to deal with a scammer....

And why? ....because you found what is essentially exactly the same thing for the same price ?

I'd get it if you'd paid double ...or if it was a damaged listing or something .... even then while I'd have sympathy though, I'd still say, a deals a deal ... ebay relies a LOT on trust on both ends.
Suck it up. It was your choice.

And I do hope your figure arrives safely and undamaged !


FYI - I always mark every figure/statue I sell as 'used' even if I'm doing clean outs of stuff I never got around to displaying....it makes things so much easier than having to deal with the 'mint hunters' ...that's not a shot at you, just a general shot at collectors

 

[scohrdarkshadow]

I'm not saying you're a prick all the time .... just in this particular action

Yeah people return things to retail stores ...staff there are paid to stand there and deal with this stuff. Personal selling ebay is different ...which you know because you've done so.

As I said, if you've sold on ebay you know how frustrating this is from the seller ...who has done nothing wrong.

You can't just say his wasted work is negligible ... selling on ebay is a nightmare in general. He has to deal with relisting and then answering stupid questions (and yes most questions are stupid you receive on ebay) plus deal with low ball offers for x amount of time until he can finally resell....and risk all this happening again, or have to deal with a scammer....

And why? ....because you found what is essentially exactly the same thing for the same price ?

I'd get it if you'd paid double ...or if it was a damaged listing or something .... even then while I'd have sympathy though, I'd still say, a deals a deal ... ebay relies a LOT on trust on both ends.
Suck it up. It was your choice.

And I do hope your figure arrives safely and undamaged !


FYI - I always mark every figure/statue I sell as 'used' even if I'm doing clean outs of stuff I never got around to displaying....it makes things so much easier than having to deal with the 'mint hunters' ...that's not a shot at you, just a general shot at collectors

The thing is everything you mentioned, aside from having to relist (which is a button you click on your old listing) would have occurred if the transaction between us two had never been made. Basically I look at it this way: How much extra work did I give him by agreeing to the offer and then backing out? It's the work he spent messaging me. That's pretty much it. On my end, I'm out $300.

This is an interesting discussion that I don't mind continuing, although I maintain the right to continue being offended by your use of the term "prick"

More like "rightful"


Edit: Also I am of the school of thought that a $200 premium for sealed and new is completely worth it. Who's to know the seller who listed the item as new but opened didn't in reality open it a rub it over his privates before putting it back .

The vast majority of individual ebay sellers offer some sort of return shipping. As do small mom and pop stores (which are basically individuals). So expecting that is in my opinion quite fair. Just canceling an order before any aspect of the transactionon the seller's side has been completed been done is more than fair imho

 

[SAB]

The thing is everything you mentioned, aside from having to relist (which is a button you click on your old listing) would have occurred if the transaction between us two had never been made. Basically I look at it this way: How much extra work did I give him by agreeing to the offer and then backing out? It's the work he spent messaging me. That's pretty much it. On my end, I'm out $300.

Yes but you did make the transaction ...hence he shouldn't have to do any of the extra stuff I mentioned now.
"But what if I didn't?" ...but you did. The end.

You're only out $300 if he screws you. I don't think that's your concern here? You're still getting an undamaged figure with everything included? ....and I hope it arrives perfectly for you!

This is an interesting discussion that I don't mind continuing, although I maintain the right to continue being offended by your use of the term "prick"

More like "rightful"

Edit: Also I am of the school of thought that a $200 premium for sealed and new is completely worth it. Who's to know the seller who listed the item as new but opened didn't in reality open it a rub it over his privates before putting it back .

I will now officially change 'prick' to 'misguided'

You are correct in that genital rubbing is always a concern with ebay purchases ....but the flip side is that I (and others on this forum) actually ask sellers to open unopened items and break 'seals' to ensure products aren't damaged.

SS/EB/HT's have such awful quality control (and that's a whole different rant...) that its a crap shoot when getting a sealed item.
I much prefer ones that are open and show pics of everything possible.

Just check out the multiple threads (for example Enterbay Jordan or right now the SS Conan Fury of the Beast) of people opening up their sealed purchases bought directly from the manufacturer to find them broken.

 

[scohrdarkshadow]

Yes but you did make the transaction ...hence he shouldn't have to do any of the extra stuff I mentioned now.
"But what if I didn't?" ...but you did. The end.

You're only out $300 if he screws you. I don't think that's your concern here? You're still getting an undamaged figure with everything included? ....and I hope it arrives perfectly for you!



I will now officially change 'prick' to 'misguided'

It's a start

If it's common practice to buy something, receive it and then return it if you change your mind (through big box and small individual ebay sellers)...why shouldn't I at least try to cancel the order before the buyer had to do the work shipping it out?

Most ebay members do allow returns, would you call somebody a former prick now misguided, for returning an item after they received it?

A part of me is also a bit miffed, since the seller rather sneakily put his return policy in small print at the end of his 2 paragraph long invoice. It was never mentioned during our interactions. So in a morality sense I'm looking at it in terms of: well if the seller had allowed returns, I have a right to cancel the order.

On the notion of my looking at net utility if the transaction had never been made vs yours of looking at it from everything that occurred after the transaction, let's just agree to disagree there's no way either of us will budge.