Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Asta]

But nah. ROTJ was the ending. It'll be fine.

For the films, definitely.

The real sequels to me are the EU novels, which had a much better grasp of the characters and told far better stories than the ST gave us.

 

[SilverStar17]

So many of us are still going to pay money to see this, even to hate-watch it.

I’m probably not going to be seeing it until some time between Christmas and New Year’s. That being said, I’m all for not judging or hating on a film before I’ve seen it; however, I’m also a person who doesn’t let spoilers spoil it for me, so I always watch spoilers before seeing a film to sort of see what I’m getting into.

And based on the spoilers I’ve seen for this, I’ll probably still go see it, but just approach it as if I’m going to see a comedy film. Or a real time robot chicken SW film. I’m not emotionally invested enough in SW where it gets me mad if I don’t like a particular installment from it, I’ll simply just laugh about it afterward as if I just watched a comedy film.

As I’ve always said, I hoped this would be a good film, and it might still have some redeeming components in it, but I always fully expected it to be a dud. Approaching it with that frame of mind, I can only be pleasantly surprised if it’s good, or completely amused if it’s a dud.

And I can’t necessarily say they get the last laugh because they got my money, because it’s pretty apparent according to that article posted a page or two ago by Ropen that RJ is bothered by the fact that the ST is receiving so much backlash and thinks fans are too pedestrian and simplistic to be intellectually challenged by what they put out, despite it raking in a lot of money.

But who knows, I may actually decide that I can just skip this in the theaters. It’s like a 75% yes, 25% no at this point.

I think critics are only bashing the film because it undoes everything they loved (and fans hated) about TLJ.

Not saying TROS isn't clumsy (how can it not be?), but there's undoubtedly some spitefulness tinting "professional" reviews, making them read worse than the movie may deserve.

Still avoiding the new movie because no matter what it does or doesn't undo, the entire trajectory of the story has been FUBAR'd by TLJ. Nostalgia be damned, the majority of this franchise just sucks. I can't convince myself to watch, let alone like it out of some sense of duty to the property as a whole. It's a preposterous idea.

Ironic then in that case how they dislike it because they think it undid everything about TLJ, but loved TLJ despite it pretty much undoing everything TFA set-up.

 

[YoNoSe]

I read spoilers but the execution actually looks worse.

Still gonna try to enjoy it. The advantage of having already dealt with TLJ is having no expectations at all. This isn’t really SW to me.

I think I may pick up the Thrawn books again. I got about halfway through them when they released, long ago.

 

[ZE_501]

[...] RJ is bothered by the fact that the ST is receiving so much backlash and thinks fans are too pedestrian and simplistic to be intellectually challenged [...]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL....there's nothing *intellectual* or *challenging* about TLJ or any Star Wars film for that matter. If that's his position his ego's even bigger and more misguided than I thought. SMH

 

[Rotfish]

Ironic then in that case how they dislike it because they think it undid everything about TLJ, but loved TLJ despite it pretty much undoing everything TFA set-up.

They weren't big on TFA. Too "safe" for them.

 

[ajp4mgs]

And I can?t necessarily say they get the last laugh because they got my money, because it?s pretty apparent according to that article posted a page or two ago by Ropen that RJ is bothered by the fact that the ST is receiving so much backlash and thinks fans are too pedestrian and simplistic to be intellectually challenged by what they put out, despite it raking in a lot of money.

That's not even remotely close to what he's saying in that article. His only point is essentially that he believes it's a bad idea to construct a story in a way that is crafted just as an attempt to please fans. It's perfectly fine if you disagree with him, but his point is just that there's no art in pandering; instead of art, that sort of approach becomes nothing more than commercialism.

What am I missing here, SilverStar?

 

[SilverStar17]

That's not even remotely close to what he's saying in that article. His only point is essentially that he believes it's a bad idea to construct a story in a way that is crafted just as an attempt to please fans. It's perfectly fine if you disagree with him, but his point is just that there's no art in pandering; instead of art, that sort of approach becomes nothing more than commercialism.

What am I missing here, SilverStar?

“Even my experience as a fan, you know if I’m coming into something, even if it’s something that I think I want, if I see exactly what I think I want on the screen, it’s like ‘oh, okay,’ it might make me smile and make me feel neutral about the thing and I won’t really think about it afterwards, but that’s not really going to satisfy me. What I’m aiming for every time I sit down in a theater is to have the experience [I had] with Empire Strikes Back, something that’s emotionally resonant and feels like it connects up and makes sense and really gets to the heart of what this thing is and in a way that I never could have seen coming. I want to be shocked, I want to be surprised, I want to be thrown off-guard, I want to have things recontextualized, I want to be challenged as a fan when I sit down in the theater."

Johnson said on the podcast his script for Last Jedi was completed before Force Awakens was released in theaters, so he did not craft his story based off reaction to that film, nor did he allow fan theories to influence his radically different story. Last Jedi holds a 91 percent on Rotten Tomatoes, but has a dismal 43 percent audience score.

The way that reads to me is that the reason his film wasn’t a big hit, is because the fans simply wanted to see what they think they know what they would like.

So it reads to me a bit pompous in the sense that he thinks fans merely think they want this and will be satisfied, but that he knows better in what they would actually like to see and that them not liking what he put out was an indication of fans not wanting to be challenged.

I’d get what you’re saying if he was speaking from a director’s perspective, but he was speaking from a fan perspective (“Even my experience as a fan...”) there and not from a director standpoint.

They weren't big on TFA. Too "safe" for them.

TFA has a critic score of 93% on RT. Higher than the audience score of 86%.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The way that reads to me is that the reason his film wasn?t a big hit, is because the fans simply wanted fan service based on what they think they know what they would like.

So it reads to me a bit presumptuous in the sense that the fans simply think they want this, but that he knows better in what they would like and that them not liking what he put out was an indication of fans not wanting to be challenged intellectually.

I?d get what you?re saying if he was speaking from a director?s perspective, but he was speaking from a fan perspective (?Even my experience as a fan...?) there and not from a director standpoint.

Okay. You and I are simply interpreting his statements in dramatically different ways. Perhaps I just have a bias in favor of his approach to film-making, so I interpret his comments to reflect a point of view that completely aligns with my own.

I think he's just saying that a film like ESB didn't give people what they might've necessarily wanted or expected, so because of his positive personal experience with that film (and probably several others), he prefers the type of approach that keeps audiences guessing (as opposed to merely aiming to provide satisfying fan service). He prefers the attempt to generate that sort of cinematic experience, rather than pander to fan expectations and preferences. You and I may disagree about whether or not he delivers that type of cinematic experience, but that's not the point here.

But thank you for clarifying your interpretation. I appreciate it.

 

[Jabba]

Better then TFA 5x and better then TLJ 50x.

8,5 from me.

TLJ ruined SW like no any movie in history.

 

[SilverStar17]

Okay. You and I are simply interpreting his statements in dramatically different ways. Perhaps I just have a bias in favor of his approach to film-making, so I interpret his comments to reflect a point of view that completely aligns with my own.

I think he's just saying that a film like ESB didn't give people what they might've necessarily wanted or expected, so because of his positive personal experience with that film (and probably several others), he prefers the type of approach that keeps audiences guessing (as opposed to merely aiming to provide satisfying fan service). He prefers the attempt to generate that sort of cinematic experience, rather than pander to fan expectations and preferences. You and I may disagree about whether or not he delivers that type of cinematic experience, but that's not the point here.

But thank you for clarifying your interpretation. I appreciate it.

No worries.

I actually agree with him in some ways because as a fan, I do like to be challenged intellectually. I really liked the BvS: UE because it did just that for me personally. Unlike you, I personally disliked TLJ as a film. I liked Luke in it so I don’t have an issue with how he decided to portray Luke in it, but I thought the overall film itself was poorly constructed with an overall weak plot. Me disliking his film (or the entire ST as an aggregate whole for that matter) has nothing to do with me not wanting to be challenged as a fan, so that’s why I interpreted his remarks there to be a bit pompous.

Perhaps I’m misinterpreting him, perhaps I’m not. Like I said, I interpreted it that way because he was speaking of himself from a fan perspective and what he likes that other fans do not (which is why he feels they disliked his film) and not as a director. Unfortunately, he’s not here to clarify himself.

 

[Star Puffs]

Palpatine: "I am all the Sith!"

Rey: "Ok Boomer."

It’s Harry Potter 7.2 but with characters I don’t care about.

 

[jimcap]

It?s Harry Potter 7.2 but with characters I don?t care about.

Yeah I liked the ending the first time I saw it back in 2011.

 

[medicomsucks]

I have many thoughts on shock vs fan service as it relates to star wars. If johnson really believed shock was more important then rey should have killed luke, and leia, then kill kylo ren, (AND maybe even snoke goldmember) and now a non-jedi hero ex stormtrooper with no powers whatsoever will need to save the galaxy with poe and a depleted resistance fleet.

Lawrence Kasdan postulated luke just turning to the dark side in rotj since leia was also going to be a jedi. That would have made episodes 7-9 a whole lot easier. But luke toys sold too well for lucas to let that happen.

 

[Mandible]

After 5 hours sleep, does my opinion change? Nope; a hotch-botch, clutching at straws, struggling to the finish line.

My mates and I literally laughed out loud so many times at how god-awful it was in some scenes, you'd think we were watching a comedy.

Another thing that struck me; when I walked out of TPM, I said crap movie, but the pod race was mental, and so was the maul fight with Obi-wan at the end. This... there's literally not one memorable scene.

Another group of TEO friends were there (I call the The Eternal Optimists) - and they love everything with the SW brand on it, and I asked for them to tell what they liked so much, and not one could say anything coherent. So I asked if there was any standout scenes, with no answers from any of them.

Quality story telling at it finest

 

[TaliBane]

I get so tired of this kind of thinking (FYI, this reviewer utterly, obsessively adored TLJ)....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...rible-end-to-the-skywalker-saga/#31159bcb113c

 

[Wor-Gar]

Saved from having to pay for this -- just got a screener of the movie!

 

[YoNoSe]

I get so tired of this kind of thinking (FYI, this reviewer utterly, obsessively adored TLJ)....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...rible-end-to-the-skywalker-saga/#31159bcb113c

You can’t blame Disney - they’re just trying to save what they love.

 

[TaliBane]

Saved from having to pay for this -- just got a screener of the movie!

Haha - same! But... my "Star Wars is Star Wars" buddies have to see it on the big screen, so I gotta go.

You can’t blame Disney - they’re just trying to save what they love.

Take this, you racist neckbeard bot!

 

[YoNoSe]

I mean, he’s not wrong - it will delight her racist detractors.

**** those guys, but they will be delighted racist a-holes.

 

[rivera2171]

Gawd what a waste of an epic IP...