The Sandman - Netflix Series

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I loved the casting for this show. It couldn't be any more perfect.

David Thewlis is always great. Wished they built the show around him instead. Not a fan of Sturridge at all. His voice sounds like he's reading a script for a movie trailer. If you used his voice on the show for movie trailers, it would fit right in.

Visually, the world building is great. Storytelling wise, not so much. You need to set the rules of the universe and the long term conflict early. The core subject matter is too plot intensive. It's basically the opposite of what makes most of what Taylor Sheridan's films work. I point out Sheridan because he really captures an audience, which many productions fail to do.

Coleman got cast IMHO to try to aim for a cross over Who audience.

If you have bland/bland-ish lead character, you need a charismatic villain aka "Big Bad"

There's a good TV show hidden in here, but the story is just too complex. There needs to be standard storytelling convention used here, but it's not. Harry Potter is an outsider, he goes to Hogwarts and knows pretty much nothing ( like the reader), and slowly the reveals to Potter helps to reveal the world to the readers. Hermoine Granger operates as a heavy expositional character. Early Harry Potter was efficient storytelling.

Sandman is not efficient at all.

There are getting a decent supporting cast because they are clearly pumping lots of money into this franchise. But that means the actors are elevating the material. Well some of them are doing so.

Plot heavy stuff can work but it needs a breakneck pace. Kiefer Sutherland is a patently atrocious level actor. But 24 found a way to success, even with regurgitating the same plot season after season, because the pacing was frenetic. Also 24 had way more episodes and run times to work with here.

This is not a bad show, I just can't call it a good show. It sabotages itself in so many places. Which I find pretty tragic for the hardcore fans of the IP.
 
Kiefer Sutherland is a bloody great actor. What the hell are you talking about? His work in practically every season but especially 3-5 was awesome.
 
Just finished episode 10. I really loved this series and look forward to a second season.

Can I just say that I absolutely HATE how ridiculous Lucifer looks. I mean… an old lady with white hair!? Uggggggggg
What a missed opportunity for an epic looking Prince of Darkness.
 
Crazy.....Netflix just released two bonus episodes. Why would they hold back two episodes?

They are supposedly adaptations of two stand alone issues, "The Dream of a Thousand Cats" and "Calliope."

Both were very good issues of the comic book, but I don't have faith in this show to convey that in live action.

Guess I'll find out...
 
Crazy.....Netflix just released two bonus episodes. Why would they hold back two episodes?

They are supposedly adaptations of two stand alone issues, "The Dream of a Thousand Cats" and "Calliope."

Both were very good issues of the comic book, but I don't have faith in this show to convey that in live action.

Guess I'll find out...

Wait, what!? Are they numbered episodes 11 and 12?

Edit: I just checked and looks like it’s labeled as Episode 11 but is two parts. Going to have to watch it tonight!
 
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Crazy.....Netflix just released two bonus episodes. Why would they hold back two episodes?

They are supposedly adaptations of two stand alone issues, "The Dream of a Thousand Cats" and "Calliope."

Both were very good issues of the comic book, but I don't have faith in this show to convey that in live action.

Guess I'll find out...
If you didn’t like the show then why bother?
 
Wait, what!? Are they numbered episodes 11 and 12?

Edit: I just checked and looks like it’s labeled as Episode 11 but is two parts. Going to have to watch it tonight!
Yeah, it was weird, first these were rumored as mistake releases on Netflix's part, then they just showed up last night.

I enjoyed them. 😁 👍

Love this series. I'd totally go for a Sandman 1/4 scale $$$$$.
 
If you didn’t like the show then why bother?

I suppose I'm just an eternal optimist at heart.

The two issues in question were actually really great. They were self-contained stand alone stories. The cat one was kind of whimsical, and the Muse one was a dark kind of Twilight Zone or Tales From the Darkside kind of issue.

So I wondered....could it work in live action?

Well I was surprised to see the Cat one wasn't live action; it was animated. Unfortunately it was animated in that flat, almost rotoscoped CGI animation. It was short too...it essentially took the script from the comic book word for word and was less than 20 minutes long. Did it work? Not for me. The original issues was penciled by Kelly Jones, and his art is so other-worldly and unique, it made the story leap off the page. The flat, dull, lifelike animation didn't work. Once again, the story is so much better on the comic book page than their attempt at TV. They could have animated Jones' art, but they went the cheap and easy route. At least Gaiman had a cameo in it. His voice is instantly recognizable. I'm surprised he took such a small role.

As for the Calliope episode....I didn't like it. It had all the flaws all of the other episodes had. Again, why watch this lifeless, tepid re-make when you could read the original and see it drawn by Kelley Jones?

I imagine these two episodes might be more accessible to new viewers though. It's not part of the ongoing story, and the Calliope episode could be like a Tale From The Crypt or one of those other syndicated horror shows from the late 80s.

If you're not a cat owner, the cat episode might turn you off. Gaiman is a bigtime cat lover.
 
That was the best episode yet for me, maybe tied with the 100 years episode. I really like this show, the casting and acting is great as well as the presentation :dunno.
 
If you find my opinions so distasteful, perhaps you should ignore me. Unless of course you think I shouldn't have the right to state my opinions? Should I be banned because I don't like a TV show?

You're the one that took something I said and decided to make a big fuss out of it. That's a pretty troll thing to do. That's probably what you were going for anyways.
:LOL:

Says I’m a troll when you’ve literally posted what 4 times about your displeasure over a show? Again no one is stopping you from posting but there is a thing called oversharing. Chiming I’m on peoples positive posts on the shows with your negativity multiple times definitely qualifies as that.

If you don’t like people talking positively about a show you clearly hate maybe YOU should ignore those comments and move along without trying to drag their comment down.
 
Watched the new two episodes last night. The animated cat one was pretty cool. More less showed that animals enter the dream realm as well.

The second episode titled “Calliope” was AWESOME!! Had a great storyline that focuses on another godlike being and her entrapment, similar to how Dream was captured and trapped by the human race in episode 1.

I won’t drop any spoilers but I will say that I love how it tied into the main series. If you enjoyed the series definitely give the Calliope episode a watch.

Really looking forward to season 2. 👍🏻
 
Just finished the main series - though not the "bonus" 11 episode - and wanted to share my thoughts.
I loved it - this is a really good show and is, to me, a fantastic adaptation.

The show's peak was obviously episodes 5 & 6 - The Sound of Her Wings and 24/7 are absolutely incredible - I'd happilly stack them against pretty much any other shows best episodes as worthy competitors.

The story with Death was beautiful and moving, it spoke to our natural fear of Death but also the evitability of it and the senselessness of fearing something as natural to ourselves as being born in the first place. It really reminded me of Terry Pratchett's Death in the sense that it makes me wish that when our times come we are so lucky to have a kindly and familiar face to accompany us on that final journey. The rest of the episode with Hob was brilliantly written and acted - at times tragic, humorous and charming - like Hob himself - a fantastic piece of storytelling. This was the episode where I really started empathizing with and even started liking Dream as a character.

Spoiler Spoiler:


I do feel like the show dipped a little in quality following this peak, the Vortex/Collector's plotline just felt like it could have been executed a little better.
Some of my issues are ones I had with the comic in the first place - the nature of the vortex feels too abstract and is something that the plot feels the need to keep explaining in order to demonstrate the stakes.
For me this is a classic case of "show don't tell" and this entire thing would have been far more effective by starting this arc with showing the mentioned previous instance wherein Dream failed to stop a vortex and it destroyed a worlduniverse/version of the Dreaming - show us the breaking down of reality and barriers as the imagined becomes real, reality becomes chaos and finally everything collapses into a singularity. If memory serves this is a small part of Sandman Overture or is hinted to having happened before Overture and kickstarts that plot - which in turn kickstarts the plot to The Sandman proper.
In short - SHOW - DON'T TELL.
Also the actors in this section of the plot just felt... flat?
The good characters were cloyingly good and felt like such helpful and perfect people, though at times odd and eccentric, that they didn't feel like real people to me. To the point I felt it had to be a plot point they were going to add to the adaptation about Rose molding these people into what her "dream" friends/family/roomates would be - a bunch of interesting, quirky but ultimately very kind people who make her and her problems the centre of their lives. Like side-characters in a story.
It also doesn't help how the connections between them feel a little too sincere for being so new - earn the relationships.
Spoiler Spoiler:

In particular I wasn't impressed with Rose's actress - I do feel they needed someone with a little more talent playing such an important role.
The actress who played Lyta was alright in the scenes with her husband... but with Rose they didn't feel natural - not sure whose fault if anyones that is.
The actress who played Unity was stupidly insanely young for a character who is supposedly over 115 years old - she barely looked over 60!
All in all I feel like a lot of these roles in The Dolls House arc are important characters and the series might have done better in casting some better actors, maybe some more household names.

I really liked a lot of the casting in general though - I think Sturridge is great, he looks the part, his voice has a lot of authority and gravitas and he feels commanding and lordly, at times unfeeling and harsh and cruel yet also capable of some more tender moments. I think he made for an incredible Dream.

Mason Alexander Park is PERFECT as Desire, my god that is some incredible casting, the growling/purring voice, the creepy wide smile, the looks, the body language - wow. I can't imagine a better fit for the role - they embodied Desire of the Endless.

Kirby Howell-Baptiste as Death was wonderful - she was a perfect translation of the characters energy, kindness, duty, affability and empathy without feeling flat, unreal or dull. She killed it to indulge in a pun. I did miss the Eye of Horus makeup - but here's hoping she comes with it next time!

I feel like Despair looked too mundane - I get that the naked monster woman of the comics isn't very palatable for the eyes - but that is rather the point. Far too early to tell if the actress will be good in the role - frankly she left little impression - I secretly hope they replace her with Kathy Burke.

Joanne Constantine - I think Coleman was perfectly enjoyable in the role - but a bit too polished and put together - not really the rough and dirty Constantine of the comics - I would also for once be delighted if we had an actual scouser (someone from the English city of Liverpool with a certain very distinctive accent) as Constantine for once - there have been so many iterations of Constantine and not ONE has been truly faithful to the character with only the very Welsh Matt Ryan coming close. Just cast a blonde, trenchcoat wearing, scouse talking Joe Dempsie for me - just ONCE and I'll be happy and never mention it again.

Loved Hob and loved his actor - really charming character, but one with layers.

I didn't hate Patton Oswalt as Matthew - but I would have been a little happier with someone else. His voice is so distinctive when I hear it I think of him and not the character he is playing.

Boyd Holbrook as the Corinthian was good - I felt he did all he could wit what he was given. I just wished they let him loose and really indulge in his monstrosity a lot more - in almost all his scenes he is actually being polite and reasonable as he is talking with people he either needs or intends to use for other ends and when he does do something awful we cut away - give me some real horror and evil. As it is he seems like a far lesser threat than John Dee and Burgess despite the longer build to a confrontation.

I thought Gwendoline Christie as Lucifer was really enjoyable - vicious under a veneer of politeness, she also looked a lot like the old Botticelli cherubs with her curls and "sweet" face. I liked the Oldest Game scene a great deal - probably one of my favourite battles between divine powers on screen - I loved it. But sadly I was never that intimidated by her - Christie just lacked some of the gravitas I was expecting in the role. I do think there were better actor choices out there though - like Dan Stevens (who, when he has his hair in curls like in "the man who invented Christmas" looks the spit of Lucifer in the Gustave Dore or Alexandre Cabanel images of him) and I also think he can playing scary/intimidating better than Christie and would have made for a more compelling screen presence.

Obviosuly some things were done better, much better even, in the comics such as the impact of Dream's capture on the waking world, the victims of the Sleeping Sickness etc..... but that is a universal truth of all adaptations.

Visually the show is incredible - all our looks at the Dreaming, Desire's Threshold and Hell were stunning.
And I think the soundtrack was also really good - though the fact they didn't use Mr Sandman or Dream a Little Dream of Me, astonishes me! I had £5 on that bet!
 
Just finished the main series - though not the "bonus" 11 episode - and wanted to share my thoughts.
I loved it - this is a really good show and is, to me, a fantastic adaptation.

The show's peak was obviously episodes 5 & 6 - The Sound of Her Wings and 24/7 are absolutely incredible - I'd happilly stack them against pretty much any other shows best episodes as worthy competitors.

The story with Death was beautiful and moving, it spoke to our natural fear of Death but also the evitability of it and the senselessness of fearing something as natural to ourselves as being born in the first place. It really reminded me of Terry Pratchett's Death in the sense that it makes me wish that when our times come we are so lucky to have a kindly and familiar face to accompany us on that final journey. The rest of the episode with Hob was brilliantly written and acted - at times tragic, humorous and charming - like Hob himself - a fantastic piece of storytelling. This was the episode where I really started empathizing with and even started liking Dream as a character.........

.................I do feel like the show dipped a little in quality following this peak, the Vortex/Collector's plotline just felt like it could have been executed a little better.
..................................
Also the actors in this section of the plot just felt... flat?
The good characters were cloyingly good and felt like such helpful and perfect people, though at times odd and eccentric, that they didn't feel like real people to me. To the point I felt it had to be a plot point they were going to add to the adaptation about Rose molding these people into what her "dream" friends/family/roomates would be - a bunch of interesting, quirky but ultimately very kind people who make her and her problems the centre of their lives. Like side-characters in a story.
It also doesn't help how the connections between them feel a little too sincere for being so new - earn the relationships.
..................................

I really liked a lot of the casting in general though - I think Sturridge is great, he looks the part, his voice has a lot of authority and gravitas and he feels commanding and lordly, at times unfeeling and harsh and cruel yet also capable of some more tender moments. I think he made for an incredible Dream.

Mason Alexander Park is PERFECT as Desire, my god that is some incredible casting, the growling/purring voice, the creepy wide smile, the looks, the body language - wow. I can't imagine a better fit for the role - they embodied Desire of the Endless.

Kirby Howell-Baptiste as Death was wonderful - she was a perfect translation of the characters energy, kindness, duty, affability and empathy without feeling flat, unreal or dull. She killed it to indulge in a pun. I did miss the Eye of Horus makeup - but here's hoping she comes with it next time!

I feel like Despair looked too mundane - I get that the naked monster woman of the comics isn't very palatable for the eyes - but that is rather the point. Far too early to tell if the actress will be good in the role - frankly she left little impression - I secretly hope they replace her with Kathy Burke.

Joanne Constantine - I think Coleman was perfectly enjoyable in the role - but a bit too polished and put together - not really the rough and dirty Constantine of the comics - I would also for once be delighted if we had an actual scouser (someone from the English city of Liverpool with a certain very distinctive accent) as Constantine for once - there have been so many iterations of Constantine and not ONE has been truly faithful to the character with only the very Welsh Matt Ryan coming close. Just cast a blonde, trenchcoat wearing, scouse talking Joe Dempsie for me - just ONCE and I'll be happy and never mention it again.

Loved Hob and loved his actor - really charming character, but one with layers.

I didn't hate Patton Oswalt as Matthew - but I would have been a little happier with someone else. His voice is so distinctive when I hear it I think of him and not the character he is playing.

Boyd Holbrook as the Corinthian was good - I felt he did all he could wit what he was given. I just wished they let him loose and really indulge in his monstrosity a lot more - in almost all his scenes he is actually being polite and reasonable as he is talking with people he either needs or intends to use for other ends and when he does do something awful we cut away - give me some real horror and evil. As it is he seems like a far lesser threat than John Dee and Burgess despite the longer build to a confrontation.

I thought Gwendoline Christie as Lucifer was really enjoyable - vicious under a veneer of politeness, she also looked a lot like the old Botticelli cherubs with her curls and "sweet" face. I liked the Oldest Game scene a great deal - probably one of my favourite battles between divine powers on screen - I loved it. But sadly I was never that intimidated by her - Christie just lacked some of the gravitas I was expecting in the role. I do think there were better actor choices out there though - like Dan Stevens (who, when he has his hair in curls like in "the man who invented Christmas" looks the spit of Lucifer in the Gustave Dore or Alexandre Cabanel images of him) and I also think he can playing scary/intimidating better than Christie and would have made for a more compelling screen presence.
........................................
Nice detailed write-up. Agree with most of it....the Vortex actress was OK-ish, but pedestrian IMO compared event to the actor playing her brother. Even during cast interviews she seems more flat compared to the obvious energy and enthusiasm for the material by the rest of the cast.
Meanwhile, CANNOT believe that Netflix, who is fretting about their stock price or some *&^%, is, according to Gaiman, waiting to see "how the show does for a month" before greenlighting another season.
This is why we can't have nice things.:banghead
You stack up a superlative cast and crew, your views actually go up (The Sandman Takes Back #1 Spot on Netflix After Bonus Episode Debuts), receive critical acclaim; but then what? Sit around in board meetings debating whether another teen angst forgettable emo drama would be the better choice?
 
Completely agree - there are dozens of other stuff they can easily cancel to fund their investing in high-quality shows like Sandman and Stranger Things, Midnight Mass and the like.
The "thinking" behind some of these executive types is utterly beyond me at times.
 
I thought that continuing series past one season is very low on the list according to Netflix's business plan. Doesn't make sense to me, but that's what I read.
 
Just finished the main series - though not the "bonus" 11 episode - and wanted to share my thoughts.
I loved it - this is a really good show and is, to me, a fantastic adaptation.

The show's peak was obviously episodes 5 & 6 - The Sound of Her Wings and 24/7 are absolutely incredible - I'd happilly stack them against pretty much any other shows best episodes as worthy competitors.

The story with Death was beautiful and moving, it spoke to our natural fear of Death but also the evitability of it and the senselessness of fearing something as natural to ourselves as being born in the first place. It really reminded me of Terry Pratchett's Death in the sense that it makes me wish that when our times come we are so lucky to have a kindly and familiar face to accompany us on that final journey. The rest of the episode with Hob was brilliantly written and acted - at times tragic, humorous and charming - like Hob himself - a fantastic piece of storytelling. This was the episode where I really started empathizing with and even started liking Dream as a character.

Spoiler Spoiler:


I do feel like the show dipped a little in quality following this peak, the Vortex/Collector's plotline just felt like it could have been executed a little better.
Some of my issues are ones I had with the comic in the first place - the nature of the vortex feels too abstract and is something that the plot feels the need to keep explaining in order to demonstrate the stakes.
For me this is a classic case of "show don't tell" and this entire thing would have been far more effective by starting this arc with showing the mentioned previous instance wherein Dream failed to stop a vortex and it destroyed a worlduniverse/version of the Dreaming - show us the breaking down of reality and barriers as the imagined becomes real, reality becomes chaos and finally everything collapses into a singularity. If memory serves this is a small part of Sandman Overture or is hinted to having happened before Overture and kickstarts that plot - which in turn kickstarts the plot to The Sandman proper.
In short - SHOW - DON'T TELL.
Also the actors in this section of the plot just felt... flat?
The good characters were cloyingly good and felt like such helpful and perfect people, though at times odd and eccentric, that they didn't feel like real people to me. To the point I felt it had to be a plot point they were going to add to the adaptation about Rose molding these people into what her "dream" friends/family/roomates would be - a bunch of interesting, quirky but ultimately very kind people who make her and her problems the centre of their lives. Like side-characters in a story.
It also doesn't help how the connections between them feel a little too sincere for being so new - earn the relationships.
Spoiler Spoiler:

In particular I wasn't impressed with Rose's actress - I do feel they needed someone with a little more talent playing such an important role.
The actress who played Lyta was alright in the scenes with her husband... but with Rose they didn't feel natural - not sure whose fault if anyones that is.
The actress who played Unity was stupidly insanely young for a character who is supposedly over 115 years old - she barely looked over 60!
All in all I feel like a lot of these roles in The Dolls House arc are important characters and the series might have done better in casting some better actors, maybe some more household names.

I really liked a lot of the casting in general though - I think Sturridge is great, he looks the part, his voice has a lot of authority and gravitas and he feels commanding and lordly, at times unfeeling and harsh and cruel yet also capable of some more tender moments. I think he made for an incredible Dream.

Mason Alexander Park is PERFECT as Desire, my god that is some incredible casting, the growling/purring voice, the creepy wide smile, the looks, the body language - wow. I can't imagine a better fit for the role - they embodied Desire of the Endless.

Kirby Howell-Baptiste as Death was wonderful - she was a perfect translation of the characters energy, kindness, duty, affability and empathy without feeling flat, unreal or dull. She killed it to indulge in a pun. I did miss the Eye of Horus makeup - but here's hoping she comes with it next time!

I feel like Despair looked too mundane - I get that the naked monster woman of the comics isn't very palatable for the eyes - but that is rather the point. Far too early to tell if the actress will be good in the role - frankly she left little impression - I secretly hope they replace her with Kathy Burke.

Joanne Constantine - I think Coleman was perfectly enjoyable in the role - but a bit too polished and put together - not really the rough and dirty Constantine of the comics - I would also for once be delighted if we had an actual scouser (someone from the English city of Liverpool with a certain very distinctive accent) as Constantine for once - there have been so many iterations of Constantine and not ONE has been truly faithful to the character with only the very Welsh Matt Ryan coming close. Just cast a blonde, trenchcoat wearing, scouse talking Joe Dempsie for me - just ONCE and I'll be happy and never mention it again.

Loved Hob and loved his actor - really charming character, but one with layers.

I didn't hate Patton Oswalt as Matthew - but I would have been a little happier with someone else. His voice is so distinctive when I hear it I think of him and not the character he is playing.

Boyd Holbrook as the Corinthian was good - I felt he did all he could wit what he was given. I just wished they let him loose and really indulge in his monstrosity a lot more - in almost all his scenes he is actually being polite and reasonable as he is talking with people he either needs or intends to use for other ends and when he does do something awful we cut away - give me some real horror and evil. As it is he seems like a far lesser threat than John Dee and Burgess despite the longer build to a confrontation.

I thought Gwendoline Christie as Lucifer was really enjoyable - vicious under a veneer of politeness, she also looked a lot like the old Botticelli cherubs with her curls and "sweet" face. I liked the Oldest Game scene a great deal - probably one of my favourite battles between divine powers on screen - I loved it. But sadly I was never that intimidated by her - Christie just lacked some of the gravitas I was expecting in the role. I do think there were better actor choices out there though - like Dan Stevens (who, when he has his hair in curls like in "the man who invented Christmas" looks the spit of Lucifer in the Gustave Dore or Alexandre Cabanel images of him) and I also think he can playing scary/intimidating better than Christie and would have made for a more compelling screen presence.

Obviously some things were done better, much better even, in the comics such as the impact of Dream's capture on the waking world, the victims of the Sleeping Sickness etc..... but that is a universal truth of all adaptations.

Visually the show is incredible - all our looks at the Dreaming, Desire's Threshold and Hell were stunning.
And I think the soundtrack was also really good - though the fact they didn't use Mr Sandman or Dream a Little Dream of Me, astonishes me! I had £5 on that bet!

Hmm yeah I agree re acting of Rose/Vortex, although I think maybe you are being too kind. She just wasn't a good actress. It doesn't help she sounds just like my niece and delivers her lines about as well... poor kid. Even the brother was better.

I actually thought Christie did pretty good, Dream, Death and Desire were fantastic. Holbrook did great as the Corinthian. Personally I'm relieved they didn't make his parts more horrifying/terrifying, it would have distracted from the show. Same for Despair- her parts in the comic with the hook made me feel so nauseous sometimes I'm glad they minimized that a bit...

I hope they do another season...
 
Completely agree - there are dozens of other stuff they can easily cancel to fund their investing in high-quality shows like Sandman and Stranger Things, Midnight Mass and the like.
The "thinking" behind some of these executive types is utterly beyond me at times.

Found some articles about how streaming services are even able to rank or evaluate viewership. Apparently streaming services play their numbers close to the vest, but Netflix was supposedly trying to be more transparent. Basically tho what I gathered is that Netflix' stock price dropped after Covid, and that Netflix is notorious for dropping highly rated and popular shows.

Neflix seems to only decide to keep series if they are "mega" successes like Stranger Things, and uses some sort of 28 day period to decide before they fund another season. So a series can be very successful and they chop it anyway. Unlike other streaming services that let audiences build. IMO it's an idiotic business model, as of course people get mad and cancel.

Gaiman apparently can shop the series to other networks if Netflix doesn't back the series. I wish Gaiman had chosen the deep-pocket Amazon in the first place, who are doing Good Omens anyway. Reading about all the popular shows Netflix has canceled was eye-opening. Fans are right - why invest in a streaming service who is so worried about their stock price, you can't become a fan without getting the rug yanked out.
 
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