Re-structuring Customs sales

[galactiboy]

Yeah, but Seb does do individual full figures, sometimes 2 or 3 a week... as does Skiman and some others. Having a unique thread for each would be insane IMO and the one thread seems to work well for them.

But I do like the "Custom Showcase" and I think encouraging Rainman and others who are primarily on the business side to have a thread in it would be a good idea.

 

[thenammagazine]

Didn't know you were the authority on such things.

Do you have any data to back up your opinions?

Go have a gander at the customs section. Look at Surfer's, Elvis' and Ski's Thread Views. You want more views, stop the condescension and go have a gander at the "data" that backs the fact, which you're calling my "opinion." You want to maximize eyes on your work, that's the way to go.

I think we have 2 different types of customs and right now the commerce kind is overpowering the non-commerce.

I think its fine for each project to have a thread in the commerce section for both interest and then sales, or just transfer the interest into a sale at the end. But keep all of that in that section.

But in the customs Creations it should be limited to one thread per artist that they can update with current projects. Right now we have essentially commmerce threads in both sections and in the customs creations multiple threads for the same artist which makes anyone not selling work's page get lost after a few hours.

I think your idea of keeping track of the project sellers is good... but I think in addition the commerce and creations should be separated which I thought was the original intention of the split.

There's a difference between a painting a sculpt and a whole new figure. I think a unique custom figure deserves it's own thread. Nothing will change my mind about that.

I also would hate to see iminime or Rainman bumped completely from the Custom Showcase (good name, right?). They should show the figure and then have a separate thread in commerce with purchase details.

They should essentially have a single "company" thread in the customs section listing new releases in the thread title. I still don't see how they couldn't function the same way the custom artists do. Whenever a new figure is announced they swap it out with the name of a figure that's no longer available. If someone appreciates their work that much, they click on the first post in the thread to view the TOC containing all the work.

It's literally the easiest way to clean up the mess that's there now, and give the small customizers a fairer shake at getting on the map vs. being burried in the landslide of multiple single-project threads.

 

[EVILFACE]

The grievances folks seem to have is that some threads get bumped off the front page, and as GB says, the sales-related threads--being most prevalent--are the primary cause. If the Iminimes and Rainmans of the world were moved into a different section as Dave suggests, then I don't think people would be complaining as there wouldn't be as much of this happening.

I do like the idea of enhancing accountability for custom entrepreneurs. Beyond Dave's suggestion, I think he or his agents should approve members before they are allowed to start projects and take money, based on reputation, experience, scope (cost) of project, etc.

Those should be moved as they are mass produced figures and not customs.

 

[karamazov80]

Mass produced by hand. . .blurs the line a bit, for sure. Skiman doing large painted head runs is still justifiably considered customs. Rocco or WGP selling 10 or 20 sculpts is justifiably considered custom work. Rainman and Iminime may do larger runs, but they aren't using factories to pump these things out. Where do you draw the line?

 

[IDMCustoms]

Well, I think showing the work in progress is better to be in a showcase thread. And I think "Interest" thread means something different to everyone. I never look at "interest" threads because in the past they've always been someone saying "hey, get on a list if you'd like to see a sculpt of so-so-and-so. I don't have a way of making it happen, but wouldn't it be cool?"

I agree. I think calling it an "interest" thread is also misleading because most of them may never come to fruition. Like you said, the "wouldn't it be cool" factor quickly wears off with no sculptor or WIP attached. But the problem with these types of threads is that it does clutter and drop projects down like everyone has said and that's why I think we should just call it a "project" thread instead of "interest" lists.

What do you think of how theRPF does it? An artist will create a thread showing a work in progress - with updates as they work on the figure and finish it. This thread will show the figure and it's development. If they decide they want to sell it - then they create a thread in the customs section of commerce to do that.

I like it, but the one issue I find is that you will get more people who signed on to the original WIP/Project thread and very little to no "it's available now" thread. If we create a Project thread, people will follow that by subscribing or seeing new updated posts from the artist, so everyone will look at that first and foremost. The way the forum is right now, there's a lot of duplicate threads for the same thing because you have 1) interest thread 2) sales thread, 3) individual custom figure thread and 4) customizer thread.

We can combine the interest/sales/custom into one by just calling it a Custom Figure Project thread. So you would only have basically 1) individual custom thread and 2) customizer thread. I hope that sounds right.

If I wanted to make a Mad Max, for example, I would post "Mad Max by IDM Project" as the thread title. First page would gather interest, then I would add sculpt updates, and things to that thread. When it's ready, I would convert the first page to reflect sales and shipping info. Once it's all done and shipped, I would remove all the sales info, leaving just pictures on the first page. I would then update my "Custom Showcase" thread with a link to the "Mad Max by IDM Project" thread. That way, you still have the individual custom thread, and also have the artist's thread and less clutter.

 

[thenammagazine]

Mass produced by hand. . .blurs the line a bit, for sure. Skiman doing large painted head runs is still justifiably considered customs. Rocco or WGP selling 10 or 20 sculpts is justifiably considered custom work. Rainman and Iminime may do larger runs, but they aren't using factories to pump these things out. Where do you draw the line?

So are HT and Sideshow, just on a bigger scale. You're trying to compare Rainman and Iminime to single artists who do most or all of their own work and you're wrong. Rainman and Iminime have teams of artists, like HT and Sideshow who develop the projects, the only difference is HT and Sideshow send them over to warehouses where they're produced by hand via assembly lines vs. having a smaller team of individuals produce them in house.

If I wanted to make a Mad Max, for example, I would post "Mad Max by IDM Project" as the thread title. First page would gather interest, then I would add sculpt updates, and things to that thread. When it's ready, I would convert the first page to reflect sales and shipping info. Once it's all done and shipped, I would remove all the sales info, leaving just pictures on the first page. I would then update my "Custom Showcase" thread with a link to the "Mad Max by IDM Project" thread. That way, you still have the individual custom thread, and also have the artist's thread and less clutter.

Isn't this essentially what's done in the custom subforums?

 

[karamazov80]

HT and Sideshow may have some hand-painting/manufacturing, but unlike those other guys, there are components of their process that employ factories, and they are part of major multi-million dollar operations. Rocco is starting to work with a tailor. Velvet Morning and some others have worked with Rainman's tailor. IDM is working with sculpting collaborators. Rainman seems to work with his one tailor, one other painter, and a person that does his casting. Again, where do you draw the line?

 

[thenammagazine]

HT and Sideshow may have some hand-painting/manufacturing, but unlike those other guys, there are components of their process that employ factories, and they are part of major multi-million dollar operations. Rocco is starting to work with a tailor. Velvet Morning and some others have worked with Rainman's tailor. IDM is working with sculpting collaborators. Rainman seems to work with his one tailor, one other painter, and a person that does his casting. Again, where do you draw the line?

You draw the line at trying to compare them to the customizers in the custom section. They're businesses. You kinda hit the nail on the head with "Rainman seems to work with his one tailor, one other painter..." he's running a business. Doesn't he use sculptors too? He might be small, but still a business with "employees." It's not one guy busting his *** all over town to produce a figure. Plus, we can easily get into the argument of how much they contribute outside of their own sales threads, if you'd like.

I mean, by your rational, ArtFigures, DAM, etc., should also have product threads in the custom section. They're not multi-million dollar companies and I'd be surprised if they produced edition sizes in the thousands.

 

[karamazov80]

Rainman generally seems to sculpt all the sculpted parts that he releases. But they are businesses. Is that the distinction? Some custom artists here appear to be small businesses themselves, even if they may not express it on their tax returns, and though they may not have their own employees (as far as I know Rainman doesn't have any employees of his own so much as others he contracts with in the same way various other custom artists do; Iminime does have employees). What constitutes a business in your mind?

Many custom artists do not contribute much beyond selling their own stuff. Should we examine the percentage of posts someone makes in their own threads vs. other threads as a means of judging who should be classified as worthy of the custom section in your opinion?

 

[thenammagazine]

Rainman generally seems to sculpt all the sculpted parts that he releases. But they are businesses. Is that the distinction? Some custom artists here appear to be small businesses themselves, even if they may not express it on their tax returns, and though they may not have their own employees (as far as I know Rainman doesn't have any employees of his own so much as others he contracts with in the same way various other custom artists do; Iminime does have employees). What constitutes a business in your mind?

We've made the distinctions repeatedly in every other thread discussing this. You just continually let your personal bias cloud your ability to see it. Feel free to paruse the thread I started in the Forum Suggestions boards, or the one KingDarkness started. I think even Evilface started one where this topic was brought up.

And I don't see why participation on SSF overall, vs. just pimping stuff in the customs threads shouldn't be a consideration. Do you?

 

[IDMCustoms]

Isn't this essentially what's done in the custom subforums?

I don't know of others, but that is what I do. I think Dave wants some sort of uniform system that everyone abides by like the RPF. That way there is more accountability and transparency. As customizers and collectors, I think we've all been down that path when real life, work, and things happen that are unexpected so delays will happen. I think if we have a "go to" thread for each individual customizer/collector, it will help.

I do all of my own customs. My wife Jen does the tailoring. I do like to collaborate with other collectors here, but that's just the geek in me liking to work and enjoy another artist's work. Orangepeace did the holsters for my Drake figure and BBKill did the Mad Max sculpt in 3D and both of them are collectors and members of this forum. I'd love to work with other collectors if opportunity affords, but I'm no professional or have a full staff by any means.

 

[karamazov80]

We've made the distinctions repeatedly in every other thread discussing this. You just continually let your personal bias cloud your ability to see it. Feel free to paruse the thread I started in the Forum Suggestions boards, or the one KingDarkness started. I think even Evilface started one where this topic was brought up.

And I don't see why participation on SSF overall, vs. just pimping stuff in the customs threads shouldn't be a consideration. Do you?

Yeah, we've had these discussions and you have yet to make a convincing argument that isn't based on an arbitrary standard. By really any rules you are proposing, Rainman should not be excluded from a customs section unless you also want to let other guys out that no one would think of removing from the section, such as IDM here. All those guys belong. I think a stronger argument could be made that Iminime is closer to a company that belongs in other sections, because of the scope of what they do and the fact that they have their own staff. But really, they're just larger scale versions of other operations in the customs section, targeting the same kinds of audiences by producing the same kinds of products produced in similar ways. As for a bias, I don't really care where the threads exist so long as they exist at all. I could find them just as easily. But if the forum is to be organized appropriately then you need some reasonable, logical standard for making those decisions, and you have yet to provide such a standard.

And no, I don't think that whether or not folks participate in anything beyond selling should play a role. There are several artists who do this, but so what? A custom is a custom, no matter the motivation for making it or the motivation for the artist being on the board.

 

[King Darkness]

I have come to dislike the customs section as a whole over the last few years. All it is has become, for the most part, is a second commerce section. It used to be a great place to share and show off custom work, slowly its become a place to sell figures, which sucks. Now I just have a few artist threads I subscribe to cause I enjoy thier work, I no doubt I miss a ton of other stuff from smaller artisit cause it is buried by all the sales threads.

I would love to see a section deticated to sales only, so I could avoid it like the plague and go back to seeing people sharing their work for the sake of sharing, not profiting.

 

[King Darkness]

Those should be moved as they are mass produced figures and not customs.

Agree 100%. Said it a 100 times before, those guys are companies, move them out of the customs section. If they want to have a presence in the customs section, give them ONE thread where all their work can be showcased, but keep the other 50 threads where they, or their board rep, is hawking their goods in a commerce section.

We've made the distinctions repeatedly in every other thread discussing this.

 

[galactiboy]

I have come to dislike the customs section as a whole over the last few years. All it is has become, for the most part, is a second commerce section. It used to be a great place to share and show off custom work, slowly its become a place to sell figures, which sucks. Now I just have a few artist threads I subscribe to cause I enjoy thier work, I no doubt I miss a ton of other stuff from smaller artisit cause it is buried by all the sales threads.

I would love to see a section deticated to sales only, so I could avoid it like the plague and go back to seeing people sharing their work for the sake of sharing, not profiting.

I tend to agree with this and thought it was the purpose of the split.

As a possible place of separation between what is a customized and what is a business might be involvement in the community. As an example Rainman, Denny and some others are on the board only to sell/promote their work and don't post outside of that role. But others like Ski, Elvis and Surfer do commission work but are also active in other areas if the board.

 

[karamazov80]

Yeah, I think Dave's suggestion of the sales sub-forum should really help to satisfy the complaints that the sales guys should be separated from everyone else, because that's exactly what would be happening. In that case, no matter if guys contribute to the community or not (apart from selling stuff), they would go into the sales section when they are selling stuff, and the regular custom "showcase" section when they are just sharing pics and info about customs, right? Then, the guys who are sick of the sales stuff will be able to avoid those discussions, and guys who are interested in that stuff can still see it. But to move guys like Rainman out of the broader customs section entirely? Insanity.

 

[EVILFACE]

That section also needs to check the newb customizers that are bypassing the commerce rules.

 

[karamazov80]

Dave's second rule would get at that a bit. Recently we've seen a number of guys without many posts or feedback starting up threads and taking money, and it bugs me. But it has been a case-by-case issue so far.

 

[galactiboy]

And I don't think Denny, Rainman or others should be out of the general custom, but that everyone should have a single thread for their work. But the individual project/sales threads would all be in commerce.

Essentially that way everyone is treated the same. My comment about where to draw the line was more in reference to the distinction about why people are posting work.

 

[gdb]

I have come to dislike the customs section as a whole over the last few years. All it is has become, for the most part, is a second commerce section. It used to be a great place to share and show off custom work, slowly its become a place to sell figures, which sucks. Now I just have a few artist threads I subscribe to cause I enjoy thier work, I no doubt I miss a ton of other stuff from smaller artisit cause it is buried by all the sales threads.

I would love to see a section deticated to sales only, so I could avoid it like the plague and go back to seeing people sharing their work for the sake of sharing, not profiting.

Exactly!

I tend to agree with this and thought it was the purpose of the split.

Yeah, me too. I thought that's what the "Interest" section was about and have been trying to behave that way. Page one of my thread has a link to details in the Interest section and a link to my thread in the Commerce section. The rest of my thread is just show off pics and news updates and the like.

I don't visit the customs section anywhere near as when it was Customikey and the other groundbreakers because it's so full of sales and ... is spam the right word?