NOT GOOD: New Line's Bob Shaye on PJ

[FlyAndFight]

I don't know the details about the issue(s) between PJ and New Line, but if it's a breach of contract by New Line, then regardless of how many millions PJ has made, he is due his contractually agreed amounts.

All I've heard coming from New Line is, "PJ has made millions and should be happy with that." I wonder what Shaye and Co. would say if it was the other way around...

In any case, in regards to "The Hobbit" film, I'm in the same camp as those that said that as long as Weta and the required original cast members are involved, that will go a long way in making it work. But most importantly, I hope the screenwriters and director are as passionate about Tolkien's work as the fans are...

 

[D. Martin]

The vast majority of movie goers haven't read the books, so it's a moot point. No matter what happens, the movie will make a crap load.

 

[seregon13]

This seems to have been a misinterpretation of Mr. Zaentz comments and he himself said he was "misquoted".

The actual date the rights would fall back to the Zaentz Company seems to be a secret in the contract between New Line and Zaentz - and it might be that contracting a director will be enough for New Line to extend the rights until the film actually gets made.


This is gathered from various sources from the net, and isn't necessarily all true, but it would make sense to me.

If the specific date the rights will fall back from New Line to Zaentz would not be a secrecy clause in their contract, then this date would certainly be known the interested public by now.

(Meanwhile, The Hobbit is listed on IMDB as "announced" for 2009: Link)

That's right Goliath 2009
Nothing has begun yet and time is running ,what kind of Hobbit we will see.

Last week Shaye talked about PJ & the hobbit.....

One thing that has not been blunted by illness is Mr. Shaye’s temper, which flared last year when he was asked about a lawsuit filed by Mr. Jackson over profits from “The Lord of the Rings.”

Mr. Shaye, criticizing what he called Mr. Jackson’s “arrogance” and calling the director “myopic,” told Sci-Fi Wire: “I don’t care about Peter Jackson anymore.” He added, “He wants to have another $100 million or $50 million, whatever he’s suing us for. He doesn’t want to sit down and talk about it. He thinks that we owe him something after we’ve paid him over a quarter of a billion dollars.”

Asked about the remarks last week, Mr. Shaye said that he made the statement “in a moment of emotion” but did not regret it. “I regret losing a friend,” he said, as he showed a visitor a Gandalf sword that Mr. Jackson had sent him as a gift, before the lawsuit.

A representative for Mr. Jackson declined to comment.

But the ill will has held up plans to make “The Hobbit.” Without specifically saying he would not make the film with Mr. Jackson, Mr. Shaye made it plain that he had no interest in working with difficult filmmakers. “Some directors are impossible,” he said. “Are there a few people I wouldn’t work with? Yes, but I won’t name names.”

And he would not comment on reports in the news media that the “Spider-Man” director Sam Raimi had been asked to direct “The Hobbit.” He said, however, that although there was no workable script yet for the film, he intended to release it in 2009.

Full review:
LINK:https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/business/media/19new.html?pagewanted=2&_r=4&ref=business

 

[pixletwin]

The vast majority of movie goers haven't read the books, so it's a moot point. No matter what happens, the movie will make a crap load.

Maybe. Maybe not. Buzz can make or break it too. If there is alot of negative buzz about it before it comes out I can easliy see it flopping face first.

 

[The Josh]

Maybe. Maybe not. Buzz can make or break it too. If there is alot of negative buzz about it before it comes out I can easliy see it flopping face first.

I agree. I wouldn't say this is a gurantee that it will make a lot of money. I've seen it talked about on everything from Access Hollywood to CNN about PJ not doing The Hobbit. The buzz right now for this film is not the best needless to say.

 

[Fritz]

I don't know the details about the issue(s) between PJ and New Line, but if it's a breach of contract by New Line, then regardless of how many millions PJ has made, he is due his contractually agreed amounts...

I won't disagree but is there any place for loyalty for the company that took the risk and put the director on the map and made him those millions of dollars.

King Darkness said it the best. It's two millionaires fighting over more millions of dollars.

 

[FlyAndFight]

I won't disagree but is there any place for loyalty for the company that took the risk and put the director on the map and made him those millions of dollars.

King Darkness said it the best. It's two millionaires fighting over more millions of dollars.

The "millions" are irrelevent. I can certainly understand the loyalty issue but that is also a two-way street. It was PJ's project that made that same company countless of millions as well. Why doesn't New Line simply pay up what they promised in the first place and move on? I don't know about you, but if I am hired for a job and promised X amount and do not receive X amount and have the other side tell me "you've made enough already, so quiet down...", then I would be bit "chuffed", as our friends across the pond say.

If I am understanding the issue the correct way, regardless of the dollars amounts, it was a breach of contract, pure and simple. He was promised X amount and New Line tried to rip him off. That is the bottom line.

 

[pixletwin]

All excellent points F&F. I agree. Besides, I really think what PJ is trying to to do is shed some light on shady business practices within Hollywood. I am totally on PJ's side on this.

 

[Darklord Dave]

New Line believes they have paid everything contractually owed to PJ and co.

It's the creative Hollywood accounting that makes PJ and co. believe they are owed more. Frequently the debts of failed pictures are written off against more successful ones under categories such as "overhead" and such. It's an arcane subject that has been debated for many, many years. Peter and co. want NL to be more transparent in their accounting. These suits happen all the time and it is a bit surprising that Shaye is taking this stance.

Chris Carter and David Duchovny sued Fox over X-Files profits and at the same time had deals at the studio and were working for them.

 

[woodsy]

New Line believes they have paid everything contractually owed to PJ and co.

If so, New Line would have nothing to lose in agreeing to an independant audit. Their actions however, seem to indicate they want absolutely nothing to do with an audit of the "Fellowship".

 

[Darklord Dave]

As I pointed out previously in this or another thread - any studio will fight tooth and nail to prevent an audit (even though it's almost always in the contract that the filmmaker is entitled to one). If an audit shows that PJ is owed money for LotR, then it opens up NL to audits for every movie they've ever made. That is something that they desperately need to prevent.

A great book on the subject is Fatal Subtraction: The Inside Story of Buchwald v. Paramount by Pierce O'Donnell. Paramount fought hard, but ultimately settled so they wouldn't have to open the books.

 

[Fritz]

...I don't know about you, but if I am hired for a job and promised X amount and do not receive X amount and have the other side tell me "you've made enough already, so quiet down...

I've had jobs in the past where I've made a hell of a lot more money than was expected. I'm sure the company probably owed me more based on what we agreed upon but I never pushed the issue because I know they could have taken another guy and I never would have gotten the opportunity in the first place. In turn, I've received follow up jobs from the company rather then them going out looking for other contractors.

 

[Mudshark]

PJ made a lot of money from New Line so he's by no means poor. I think they both have to be smarter about it and come to some sort of understanding.

Hi Fritz,

Of course I meant 'poor guy' as in 'artist who just wants to do his thing and not have to muck around in all the legal stuff', but of course HE was the one who filed the suit, and he's by NO means poor in terms of money! I was referring to what I read in the letter that was posted on theonering.net last year. I agree, by the way. They really ought to sort things out and focus all that energy on something more positive, like making a convincing adaptation of the Hobbit to the big screen. That in itself will be no easy task, no matter who undertakes it, especially now that it will have to come after, rather than before LOTR.

 

[woodsy]

As I pointed out previously in this or another thread - any studio will fight tooth and nail to prevent an audit (even though it's almost always in the contract that the filmmaker is entitled to one). If an audit shows that PJ is owed money for LotR, then it opens up NL to audits for every movie they've ever made. That is something that they desperately need to prevent.

Yes, they want to avoid an audit at all costs. Would they feel that way if they ran their studio with honesty and integrity?

 

[Mudshark]

Yeah. I had a good chuckle over that one too! Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

[FlyAndFight]

I've had jobs in the past where I've made a hell of a lot more money than was expected. I'm sure the company probably owed me more based on what we agreed upon but I never pushed the issue because I know they could have taken another guy and I never would have gotten the opportunity in the first place. In turn, I've received follow up jobs from the company rather then them going out looking for other contractors.

The contracting business is a dog-eat-dog world, no doubt. You apparently are just another fish in the pond. But in this case, PJ doesn't need follow up jobs from New Line now. In my opinion, it's the principal of the thing, as well as the contractual obligation. New Line could have negotiated a settlement since they were in the wrong to begin with and this would have never escalated to it's present point.

We don't know what happened behind closed doors, so our comments are based on speculative information, and yet, based on Mr. Shayes comments alone, it appears that his argument is not that New Line is in the right, but that PJ should conform himself with what he has received and shut the heck up. Plus, he appears vendictive towards PJ with the whole utilizing another director on The Hobbit bit.

 

[Fritz]

The contracting business is a dog-eat-dog world, no doubt. You apparently are just another fish in the pond. But in this case, PJ doesn't need follow up jobs from New Line now. In my opinion, it's the principal of the thing, as well as the contractual obligation. New Line could have negotiated a settlement since they were in the wrong to begin with and this would have never escalated to it's present point.

We don't know what happened behind closed doors, so our comments are based on speculative information, and yet, based on Mr. Shayes comments alone, it appears that his argument is not that New Line is in the right, but that PJ should conform himself with what he has received and shut the heck up. Plus, he appears vendictive towards PJ with the whole utilizing another director on The Hobbit bit.

I don't disagree but the reason PJ doesn't need any more follow up jobs is because of New Line/Lord of the Rings. I remember reading that if it tanked, it may have bankrupted New Line. PJ really didn't risk anything. He was a B-list director before LotR and if it failed he'd still be a B-list director. He definitely wouldn't have gotten the King Kong job.

I'm not trying to sound pro New Line and/or anti-PJ. I would just like them all to realise how good it would be for everyone to get together and do a proper Hobbit and just work something out. There's more than just money and who owes who what at stake. I'm just opposed to cannonising PJ like some people are. I don't think it's a stretch to say PJ has become what he is today because of New Line. I'd just like to see that acknowledged somehow not just that New Line is evil because they owe PJ money (which I don't doubt) and are trying to rip him off.

 

[FlyAndFight]

I don't disagree but the reason PJ doesn't need any more follow up jobs is because of New Line/Lord of the Rings. I remember reading that if it tanked, it may have bankrupted New Line. PJ really didn't risk anything. He was a B-list director before LotR and if it failed he'd still be a B-list director. He definitely wouldn't have gotten the King Kong job.

I'm not trying to sound pro New Line and/or anti-PJ. I would just like them all to realise how good it would be for everyone to get together and do a proper Hobbit and just work something out. There's more than just money and who owes who what at stake. I'm just opposed to cannonising PJ like some people are. I don't think it's a stretch to say PJ has become what he is today because of New Line. I'd just like to see that acknowledged somehow not just that New Line is evil because they owe PJ money (which I don't doubt) and are trying to rip him off.

I'm in total agreement with you, Fritz. LOTR was definitely PJ's ticket to the big-top, if you will. New Line did in fact have most to lose if the project had failed. I certainly do not fall in the cannonising PJ crowd, though. I just felt that based on what we do know and what Shayes has been quoted as saying, PJ is basically asking for what he was promised and New Line is appearing a little "underhanded", if you will.

 

[Fritz]

...New Line is appearing a little "underhanded", if you will.

Of course they're sleazy and underhanded, they're a movie studio. That's just a step above Music Studios on the sleazy meter.

 

[DouglasMcc]

I don't disagree but the reason PJ doesn't need any more follow up jobs is because of New Line/Lord of the Rings. I remember reading that if it tanked, it may have bankrupted New Line. PJ really didn't risk anything. He was a B-list director before LotR and if it failed he'd still be a B-list director. He definitely wouldn't have gotten the King Kong job.

I'm not trying to sound pro New Line and/or anti-PJ. I would just like them all to realise how good it would be for everyone to get together and do a proper Hobbit and just work something out. There's more than just money and who owes who what at stake. I'm just opposed to cannonising PJ like some people are. I don't think it's a stretch to say PJ has become what he is today because of New Line. I'd just like to see that acknowledged somehow not just that New Line is evil because they owe PJ money (which I don't doubt) and are trying to rip him off.

I find it strange that Peter Jackson's wealth is leading so many to say, "well, he's rich, he should just shut up and make us a Hobbit film." Most of us here really don't give a damn about Peter Jackson. We just want more LoTR films directed by him. And I think that's a bad attitude to have. Would we be so ho-hum about this money if PJ was bankrupt and needed that money to survive? Sure, that's being facetious, but it proves my point. PJ's wealth should not be a factor. Either you support the cause or you don't.

I cannot speak for PJ, so the following is just speculation. However, I have followed him since Frighteners ... one of my all time favorite films ... and I do not think he is pushing this matter with New Line over money. I truly feel he is doing it over the principle of the matter. The only part of this matter that everyone seems to be in agreement over is that New Line probably owes PJ more money. I think PJ is trying to send a message to all the movies studios. By demanding an audit, he is drawing attention to this side of the business. I highly doubt he will get the audit ... but New Line is going to have to pony up more cash. This attention and the resulting money loss to New Line will make other studios a little more honest for the next few years. Sure, they will still be screwing people over left and right. However, it will be to a much smaller degree. And, if that helps another director out ... one who doesn't have LoTR millions to live off of, well, I think that will make PJ happy. Maybe it's naive to think PJ is being altruistic. However, in the hundreds of hours of interviews and DVD extras I have seen, he has never come off as a greedy SOB that's in it for the money.