MARVEL' S Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[Sassafras]

I guess I didn't have high expectations for FWS because of all the slated releases, this was the most normal Marvel series.

It didn't have the initial intrigue WV, Loki or What If has. WV had the mystery of the sitcom world and the return of Vision, Loki has the multiple timelines and What If has what if scenarios to explore. FWS was always just going to be a buddy-cop type series set in the MCU. The whole super soldier thing has been done before too.

After that, we have a bunch of newer characters coming in. Ms Marvel is interesting to me and so is She Hulk. Hawkeye is less interesting for the same reason that FWS was not that interesting.

I think it's also why I am not as interested in the upcoming BW film. Usually Hollywood doesn't make the best kung-fu/martial arts films (I also still have a bad taste in my mouth from the atrocity that was Iron Fist) so I have very low expectations for Shang-Chi.

Lol watch Hawkeye be amazing since it's the series I was least interested in. Figures.

 

[jye4ever]

I don't know. When Mackie's on screen with Zemo, your eyes go to Zemo... or Walker... or Bucky. They each have more presence.

Mackie was perfectly cast for what he was originally intended for -- a supporting player and buddy for Cap.

So that?s why they put him in a super bright white costume so you could notice him.

Problem was when he was flying in the night sky I coild only really see the white costume

 

[The Buffinator]

Holy crap it just hit me after reading Sass post.

If Russos Cap was a better Superman than Snyder Superman then Mackie Cap is MCU version of Snyder Superman.

Mopey burdened with heavy wokeness Cap.

With Isaiah standing in for Costner's Jonathan Kent....

 

[e30ernest]

Lol watch Hawkeye be amazing since it's the series I was least interested in. Figures.

You may have jinxed it.

 

[ZE_501]

I don't know. When Mackie's on screen with Zemo, your eyes go to Zemo... or Walker... or Bucky. They each have more presence.

Mackie was perfectly cast for what he was originally intended for -- a supporting player and buddy for Cap.

I don't know. I didn't have a problem with him leading in Altered Carbon, I still think better writing and direction could elevate him. Walker was compelling with his little time-bomb like tics and nervous energy. Zemo just ran off with every scene he was in, I don't know who could compete with that. Bucky...they totally lost me on Bucky. He was a blank with a terrible wannabe catch-phrase. "You're welcome!"

 

[The Buffinator]

He couldn't elevate the show. Maybe just taking someone else's role is difficult enough, but I didn't feel him driving the show. I think he is best at comedy and critiquing others, which has great value in a supporting character. But I don't feel the Evans/Boseman gravitas that I think Sebastian Stan would be better at. I don't have that flaw feeling like I do with the others. I think the writing really didn't bring anything special out of him to make you really feel for him, at least IMO. Giving up the shield instead of having it taken away might have actually made him more of a antagonist for a short period of time to be honest.

Nothing wrong with Mackie, he just doesn't have a strong presence. That's a problem for a lot of good actors.

Good writing with a focus of direction on Sam could have elevated his talent. I just don't think these D+ shows pass the thorough logic tests like the movies do. Guess these are just filler for the big movies.

I don't know. When Mackie's on screen with Zemo, your eyes go to Zemo... or Walker... or Bucky. They each have more presence.

Mackie was perfectly cast for what he was originally intended for -- a supporting player and buddy for Cap.

All valid points, although (and this is coming from someone who loves the WS character) IMO relatively speaking Sebastian Stan didn't project much gravitas in this show either. And comparing either of them to Daniel Bruhl's Zemo is probably unfair, as scenery chewing villains are always more fun/interesting. Walker was the new guy so he had that going for him. Overly long, groan inducing speeches aside I thought Mackie did a fine job in the role. I'm not sure who else you could put in that bird costume that would project more gravitas. Maybe Florence Kasumba (Ayo) - she had more presence than the rest of them put together.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]FWS was always just going to be a buddy-cop type series set in the MCU. The whole super soldier thing has been done before too.

I don't think it delivered on any of that, though. It spun out. Maybe those characters only work within narrow parameters. I just don't quite buy the Winter Soldier going on dates.

After that, we have a bunch of newer characters coming in. Ms Marvel is interesting to me and so is She Hulk. Hawkeye is less interesting for the same reason that FWS was not that interesting.

I think Hawkeye has a chance, She Hulk is super interesting, Ms. Marvel not at all, but that's just me. No interest in a little girl who ... what does she do, stretch or alter her body mass or whatever? Pass. Might be entertaining for young girls, though. Who knows.

I think it's also why I am not as interested in the upcoming BW film. Usually Hollywood doesn't make the best kung-fu/martial arts films (I also still have a bad taste in my mouth from the atrocity that was Iron Fist) so I have very low expectations for Shang-Chi.

That's (sadly) a good point.

[...]
Meanwhile actor talents get wasted, Mackie doesn't seem like a natural fit for someone being grim all the time; and the only one who seems like they are having fun is Zemo.

That could be the issue, they weren't playing to Mackie's strengths.

 

[jye4ever]

All valid points, although (and this is coming from someone who loves the WS character) IMO relatively speaking Sebastian Stan didn't project much gravitas in this show either. And comparing either of them to Daniel Bruhl's Zemo is probably unfair, as scenery chewing villains are always more fun/interesting. Walker was the new guy so he had that going for him. Overly long, groan inducing speeches aside I thought Mackie did a fine job in the role. I'm not sure who else you could put in that bird costume that would project more gravitas. Maybe Florence Kasumba (Ayo) - she had more presence than the rest of them put together.

Mackie was fine but maybe there is some truth with what the notorious W-G said that Mackie is stuck at supporting caliber.

Honestly Bucky was my biggest complaint the show couldn’t recover for me once they rushed thru his arc.

 

[xipotec]

The show is trying to make people understand certain view points. That?s all really. For a lot of minorities America doesn?t represent them and they feel like they don?t belong. It?s a love hate relationship really. Nobody is trying to replace anyone just show how the man felt when he helped his country. He felt betrayed and just wanted to be acknowledge not be touted as a hero.

This is just real stuff. Just the other day I read a Spider-Man comic from the 60s and black man got up in Norman osborns face and argued with him about the exact stuff we are talking about today. This is really nothing new.

The thing is people on Twitter and other places stoke the fire and act like if you don?t say a certain thing then you should go to hell. And white men are all evil. Or all men rape. So it?s a huge back and forth.

But racial injustice is still happening and should be talked about. I know for some of you it?s not what you?d like to see in your media.

I agree.

But there are definitely 2 camps with media.

This who want escapist entertainment, (then complain its vapid and poorly written.

And those who want some social commentary and real world issues in their Media ( but complain about heavy handed execution and too preachy)

Personally, having read comics for over 40 years now, I see social commentary that Disney has been doing to be perfectly in line with what comics have been doing since the 60?s. Specifically post Comics Code era.


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[xipotec]

First let me say this.. This is also not a OMG white people have it so bad boo hoo... I hate that argument.. We should always stand up and fight injustice when it is seen.


I am not saying that this means blacks are racist or anything of the like (obviously this has more to do with the black community making up more of the urban / poor communities then whites) . Just a bit perplexed by the whole media narrative of what this present day country is all about.


No way my last five posts dont get removed.

With all due respect, the last part you said here is exactly why racism is still a HUGE problem.

Ask yourself this.....why is it after 100 years most poor people are Still people of color?

Where is the systemic oppression coming from?

Why are white cops treating black suspects so differently.

I live in the south, And I can tell you at my job the white staff follows around black peoples suspecting them of being shoplifters.....

Even though , consistently the shoplifters we catches are white more than black.

Why do that keep making the same mistake? Inbreed system racism, they do not even know they are doing it.


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[abake]

Holy crap it just hit me after reading Sass post.

If Russos Cap was a better Superman than Snyder Superman then Mackie Cap is MCU version of Snyder Superman.

Mopey burdened with heavy wokeness Cap.

Them's fighting words son. No wokeness coming from my boy Cavill!

 

[matticus]

With Isaiah standing in for Costner's Jonathan Kent....

Only if a tornado could've hit urban Baltimore...

 

[abake]

And what do you want him to do?
Finish racism with a punch?

Sam speach is all about what we are living now, with Covid and lack of fund in health care in all over the world, and guess what this is all government fault by not taking care of the people.
There are country who are dealing better than most in a situation that the wisest thing would be a united world against this virus.
We are ignoring that the most problems that affect society is lack of government, they care more about profits than the quality of life.

Sam is a military veteran, activist, counselor to veterans with PTSD, hero and now Captain America, he have to ask the question but it isn't his job to know the answer, he can fight Thanos but he does not have the power to change or make laws.

Where the hell did you get that "solving racism with a punch" impression?

What I'm saying is that there are some good points and good intentions in the speech, but it falls woefully short because of execution and delivery, and because the speech doesn't give any solutions, not even a hint of solutions. It's easy to say "this is wrong", the real feat is pointing the way to how to make it better. And no, "do better" does not do it.

 

[matticus]

Only if a disappointing Loki show was released to take the edge off the disappointing Falcon show

 

[abake]

Mackie was fine but maybe there is some truth with what the notorious W-G said that Mackie is stuck at supporting caliber.

Honestly Bucky was my biggest complaint the show couldn’t recover for me once they rushed thru his arc.

Yeah, as much as Mackie is not the problem with the show, it is true that there are actors who have it and actors who don't. Denzel Washington has it, Michael B. Jordan has it... I don't think Mackie does...

 

[Wor-Gar]

Bucky....was a blank with a terrible wannabe catch-phrase.

I admit, he was rather bland and wasted. But he's been rather bland since he turned to good. I've seen Stan in a lot of things, and he's mostly just handsome bland.

#notmyskywalker

Maybe Florence Kasumba (Ayo) - she had more presence than the rest of them put together.

Her strut alone could carry the show.

 

[e30ernest]

Why do that keep making the same mistake? Inbreed system racism, they do not even know they are doing it.

I think you answered your question there. They can't stop making the same mistake if they don't know they are doing it. Again, like my parents, aunts and uncles. They don't know they are racist when they would move us away when a black family walks into the store. They don't think it was racist when they assumed that the police helicopter circling above us in LA was out looking for Mexicans.

What I'm saying is that there are some good points and good intentions in the speech, but it falls woefully short because of execution and delivery, and because the speech doesn't give any solutions, not even a hint of solutions. It's easy to say "this is wrong", the real feat is pointing the way to how to make it better. And no, "do better" does not do it.

This is what is specially annoying for me. The message itself was good. The intention was good. But being so horribly written only makes it open to ridicule (we are seeing that here in this thread already) and people just close their minds to it even more.

The only positive I can think of is that it opens discussions about it. Hopefully it remains healthy (like how it has so far here).

 

[jye4ever]

I admit, he was rather bland and wasted. But he's been rather bland since he turned to good. I've seen Stan in a lot of things, and he's mostly just handsome bland.

#notmyskywalker.

But but but you have always said Hamill was bland so what gives.

 

[user 64404]

Where the hell did you get that "solving racism with a punch" impression?

What I'm saying is that there are some good points and good intentions in the speech, but it falls woefully short because of execution and delivery, and because the speech doesn't give any solutions, not even a hint of solutions. It's easy to say "this is wrong", the real feat is pointing the way to how to make it better. And no, "do better" does not do it.

Its the government who has to come with the solution, but in this case the problem have an easy solution, it was just money, the show tell us that the "immigration from the blip" was solved by the government spending money and working with the people who became refugees.
The government needed someone to push them to the right anwser and this is exactly what Sam did in the speach after Karly scared them.

I disagree with you guys about Mackie starpower, i had my doubts when he was given the shield in endgame but he did a great job as a leadind actor in this, this was a story with 4 protagonist each with there own storylines.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But but but you have always said Hamill was bland so what gives.

No, no, Hamill is whiney not bland.

But Hamill had... pluck.