Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[JAWS]

Having said all of that above. I don't hate TPM.... I think it's the only decent one of the PT. In some ways I think it a lot like Jedi.... Lots of bad but some really great moments. Jedi is the better film but it is saved by some of the best moments in the series. Of course Lucas ruined one of those moments in the Blu ray release by putting in the "No" by Vader and covering up Williams brilliant Jedi theme when he throws the Emperor to his death not to mention that scene having less impact if I include the PT as canon which I do not

 

[Prime Clone]

I skimmed it. Basically people hate the PT cos it's not like the OT. And people gonna hate the ST cos it's too much like the OT (okay, I made that last bit up).

But I can identify with the author. I was predisposed to like the PT cos I wanted the back story to the OT. I didn't actually *want* it to overshadow the OT. And I understood the SE was necessary to make all six films look similar technically (even if Lucas overdid it in places).

And the PT is set in more complex, political time, the height of the Republic before the fall.

 

[JAWS]

You guys and your kill Han obsession.

No kidding... Sure Ford phoned it in in that film... But to kill Han would have been a mistake.

Hope they don't make that mistake in this film.

 

[JAWS]

I skimmed it. Basically people hate the PT cos it's not like the OT. And people gonna hate the ST cos it's too much like the OT.

I dislike the PT because they are not very good films... I do enjoy TPM because it has real sets and a couple of great action scenes and had the best to character of the PT (qui gon and Maul).... I think AOTC and ROTS are both worthless... Not because they are not like the OT but because they are poorly made. They do not hold up to repeat viewings and they ruined characters and mythology of the OT with some of Lucas' terrible ideas.

 

[DiFabio]

Having said all of that above. I don't hate TPM.... I think it's the only decent one of the PT. In some ways I think it a lot like Jedi.... Lots of bad but some really great moments.

Yeah, I've always liked Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan (I could describe both of their characters, unlike the people in the RedLetterMedia review), the art direction, the locations, the podrace, the duels with Darth Maul and the climax of the movie.

I don't think it's a good movie though, could have been better, but there are enjoyable parts to it. Too bad Lucas didn't focus on like Master/Padawan adventures. Would have been cool to see Knight missions and stuff between master and apprentice. You get a bit of that with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in Episode 1 in the beginning and a small part with the assassination thing with Anakin and Obi-Wan in II, but the groups either split apart or the movies go in a different direction.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

BTW I do think that AOTC is one of the worse Big budget/big name theatrical films ever released. Batman and Robin is still the champ though.

I find B&R entertaining because of how bad and ridiculous it is. Batman had a credit card!

 

[DiFabio]

And a lot of those lines and situations are funny. I can't be the only one that finds Arnold as Freeze entertaining.

I'll take Batman throwing Robin into a vat of ice cream as they fight for Poison Ivy over the Anakin/Padme romance in Episode II.

 

[ironwez20]

Wonder why she kept wearing all those hot outfits around him if she didn't want him to hit. Its like she wanted all the lotion containers around her to end up missing.

 

[cmiller99]

In the meantime, before The Force Awakens comes out, I'm going to focus my attention on trying to hate Return of the Jedi a little more. I think in my haste to contrast the Prequel trilogy with the Classic trilogy I may have been too lenient with this one. Luke's plan doesn't make much sense, Chewie does make a Tarzan call, Sarlacc does burp, and that Ewok hits himself in the head with his bola-thingy for a cheap laugh. Think how much I'd hate those things if Lucas had added them in Special Edition!

That was a special edition change.

And it's ****ing stupid.

 

[Cixx]

Disney/Lucasfilm have done a genius job of marketing this film. People are gonna lose their minds when they finally see Luke Skywalker in the 3rd act!

 

[Asta]

I surprised myself over the last few days by turning the dark side.

TPM was nowhere near as bad as the last time I saw it. (Apart from too much bad 'humour' and silly Battle Droid voices).

AOTC was better in that it had less bad 'humour'. (Apart from C-3PO's shenagians).

ROTS is better still, though I'm only half way though my re-watching.


I don't know why, but it could be my growing acceptance of Episode VII that's finally allowing me to find ways to accept the PT.

Two things help.

Firstly, seeing the PT as the OT was intended: in terms of a cliffhanger serial - generally with the influence of the '30s and '40s Flash Gordon serials.

Secondly, just taking in the scenery and visuals.


No doubt they could all be better films if they had better dialogue and less inane humour. But they no longer offend me as they used to.

 

[greedo737]

That was a special edition change.

And it's ****ing stupid.

Was it though? I thought it's been there since the beginning ... Can anyone confirm? I'm not at home with my Despecialized editions.

 

[JAWS]

That was a special edition change.

And it's ****ing stupid.

Was it though? I thought it's been there since the beginning ... Can anyone confirm? I'm not at home with my Despecialized editions.

Chewie Tarzan yell has always been there..

 

[JAWS]

Yeah, I've always liked Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan (I could describe both of their characters, unlike the people in the RedLetterMedia review), the art direction, the locations, the podrace, the duels with Darth Maul and the climax of the movie.

I don't think it's a good movie though, could have been better, but there are enjoyable parts to it. Too bad Lucas didn't focus on like Master/Padawan adventures. Would have been cool to see Knight missions and stuff between master and apprentice. You get a bit of that with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in Episode 1 in the beginning and a small part with the assassination thing with Anakin and Obi-Wan in II, but the groups either split apart or the movies go in a different direction.

I have always felt there were a few things Lucas could have done to greatly improve the PT.

1. Start Anakin out to be older. Having two different actors makes it harder to identify with and root for him. This would also help the bond between him and Obi wan. This would also help in.....

2. Allowing us to see a film dedicated to the growing friendship of Anakin and Obi. Make Episode 2 about their adventures so the impact of Anakin's fall mean something in ROTS. Show their friendship and show how Anakin might be a bit more willing to go the easier way and mess a bit with the dark side.

3. Don't make the Jedi a silly religion were you can't love or care for anyone. Just silly. That way Anakin and Obi could have their adventures and Padame could be there with them and romance could grow and not force the sneaking around where Anakin and Obi wan can't work together.

4. Give us one main villain (not counting the Emperor). Maul, Dooku and GG. There is not a overall threat and someone to root against in the films... We are introduced to these villains in each film and they have little to no character that is not allowed to grow... Make Maul the main baddy and he could have filled those Dooku and GG moments in the other films thus make it far more interesting.


There are many other things but fix those issues and it would have helped the series feel more complete and compelling IMO.

 

[a-dev]

Hmmmm worst ever? Well they are pretty damn bad.. When one considers the fact that the PT actually hurt the enjoyment of the OT for some because of how bad they are... Well I think an argument can be made for his opinion.

Bad script - Check.
Bad acting - Check.
Bad direction - Check.
Moments that are so bad they make you cringe - Check.

My thoughts on the PT I posted on another thread.




If the PT were not SW films then they would not get the hate heaped on them... Of course nobody would have saw them and the series would have ended after TPM.

BTW I do think that AOTC is one of the worse Big budget/big name theatrical films ever released. Batman and Robin is still the champ though.

''Vader did not deserve redemption''

Very interesting talking point. I agree, based on the PT he definitely didn't deserve it. He was never likeable. That's a major problem, first if you want it to feel in any way unexpected and tragic that he becomes a villain and second if, like Luke, you still want to see the good in him and ultimately redeem him.

Unfortunately his moaning and crying in AOTC and his villainy in ROTS were never counterbalanced by any characteristics to make him a Luke or a Han for these films. He was written to have the charisma of a spoon and acted accordingly by Christensen.

The whole killing kids thing - we don't forgive child killers in real life, why would we do so here. Terrible decision by Lucas to depict something like this.

Now that immediately raises the question of Vader in ANH overseeing the destruction of Alderaan. He didn't personally do it, just didn't do anything to stop it...but is that enough to give him a pass and say that he could still be redeemable? If you pretend the prequels didn't happen and reset one's perception of Vader right back to 1983 and everything we had up to that point, was the OT Vader reasonably redeemable?

 

[a-dev]

I have always felt there were a few things Lucas could have done to greatly improve the PT.

1. Start Anakin out to be older. Having two different actors makes it harder to identify with and root for him. This would also help the bond between him and Obi wan. This would also help in.....

2. Allowing us to see a film dedicated to the growing friendship of Anakin and Obi. Make Episode 2 about their adventures so the impact of Anakin's fall mean something in ROTS. Show their friendship and show how Anakin might be a bit more willing to go the easier way and mess a bit with the dark side.

3. Don't make the Jedi a silly religion were you can't love or care for anyone. Just silly. That way Anakin and Obi could have their adventures and Padame could be there with them and romance could grow and not force the sneaking around where Anakin and Obi wan can't work together.

4. Give us one main villain (not counting the Emperor). Maul, Dooku and GG. There is not a overall threat and someone to root against in the films... We are introduced to these villains in each film and they have little to no character that is not allowed to grow... Make Maul the main baddy and he could have filled those Dooku and GG moments in the other films thus make it far more interesting.


There are many other things but fix those issues and it would have helped the series feel more complete and compelling IMO.

Again, another great post. Exactly, to all this^

 

[YankeesFanboy]

Great posts, fellas.

Well, there you have it. There's nothing tragic when a ********* falls. PT Anakin is just not heroic and/or likable enough to merit a redemption story.

 

[greedo737]

I have always felt there were a few things Lucas could have done to greatly improve the PT.

1. Start Anakin out to be older. Having two different actors makes it harder to identify with and root for him. This would also help the bond between him and Obi wan. This would also help in.....

2. Allowing us to see a film dedicated to the growing friendship of Anakin and Obi. Make Episode 2 about their adventures so the impact of Anakin's fall mean something in ROTS. Show their friendship and show how Anakin might be a bit more willing to go the easier way and mess a bit with the dark side.

3. Don't make the Jedi a silly religion were you can't love or care for anyone. Just silly. That way Anakin and Obi could have their adventures and Padame could be there with them and romance could grow and not force the sneaking around where Anakin and Obi wan can't work together.

4. Give us one main villain (not counting the Emperor). Maul, Dooku and GG. There is not a overall threat and someone to root against in the films... We are introduced to these villains in each film and they have little to no character that is not allowed to grow... Make Maul the main baddy and he could have filled those Dooku and GG moments in the other films thus make it far more interesting.


There are many other things but fix those issues and it would have helped the series feel more complete and compelling IMO.

I totally agree with this. If only you'd been allowed to make the prequels ...

 

[greedo737]

Chewie Tarzan yell has always been there..

Thank you

 

[greedo737]

The whole killing kids thing - we don't forgive child killers in real life, why would we do so here. Terrible decision by Lucas to depict something like this.

You are correct. This was a mistake. Too bad none of his Yes-Men told him not to do it ...