The "All things TERMINATOR" thread.

[agonistes86]

I randomly stumbled into this thread last night, and I just wanted to chime in and add that I read the last couple of pages, and I love the whole 3 timeline approach. I've never spent much time diving into the whole theory of how the movies could make sense and basically just brushed it off as making no sense anyway once you go deep, but this all makes perfect sense. I particularly like that this even addresses the issue with T-1000 being so much more advanced than anything presented in T1.
And it makes me want to watch the movies again now with this in mind.

 

[a-dev]

Another convert. If you do watch the films again and come up with any questions or possible issues go ahead and post them here.

I don't even care that this wasn't the intention. I've been doing ''personal canon'' with these films since I decided to write off Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines. So this is now the way I will interpret T1 and T2 because it really can make sense of their events quite beautifully whilst having the truest possible definition of ''No fate but what we make''. With each new timeline nothing is certain - Kyle Reese could have failed, the T-1000 could have succeeded - they were always ''making up history as they went along'' the instant a time traveller arrived.

And you're right, I love how it accounts for the advancement of the T-1000. It could also give an in-universe explanation for the physical differences between the T-800 Endoskeleton in T1 and the Endoskeleton in T2.

 

[DiFabio]

Somewhere in this thread I know I contributed to this same theory.

No way am I going to go looking for it with how jacked up the search feature is now.

 

[a-dev]

Somewhere in this thread I know I contributed to this same theory.

No way am I going to go looking for it with how jacked up the search feature is now.

Maybe. I know we discussed the Original John Connor theory before. This three timeline theory obviously incorporates that.

If memory serves though we used to talk about it as Kyle Reese in a way 'doing what Skynet could not' and erasing John Connor, albeit replacing him with a new version.

In this idea though we can let him off the hook because the John he knew will live out the remainder of his life in the original timeline. He simply won't come into existence in the parallel timelines.

 

[a-dev]

ajp,

I know in this 3 timeline theory we're saying that a different timeline's Skynet sends the T-1000 to 1995 than the one that sent the T-800 to 1984 because that happens to be the best way to logically sort out what we see in T1 and T2. But can you help clarify what would happen if the same Skynet from one timeline did send multiple Terminators to different points in time? So lets pretend that the original Skynet did have a T-1000 at its disposal and decided to send both the T-800 to 1984 and the T-1000 to 1995. This won't create 2 separate new timeline branches right? One which the 1984 T-800 alone occupies and a different one which the T-1000 occupies. Because if that were the case then why wouldn't Kyle Reese have created a new branch all of his own when he went back. It seems to me that only one parallel timeline branch is required by 'the universe' as it seeks to avoid paradoxes. All time travellers sent from Timeline A will always arrive in a single timeline B, rather than each creating a timeline C, D, E etc. The single parallel timeline is effectively a reset back to the earliest chronological point in time that a time traveller arrives and is completely unwritten from then on. This means that subsequent time travellers won't quite know what they're coming into.

For example, when the T-1000 arrives in 1995* he will already be aware that a T-800 had been sent to 1984 to kill Sarah Connor and may or may not have succeeded - the T-1000 will have to ascertain this. And if he discovers the T-800 failed then he will proceed with his mission to kill John** - trouble is...he'll be looking for the wrong John Connor - until he establishes that a Resistance soldier named Kyle Reese became the new father and created a different man called John Connor altogether. Kyle Reese meanwhile will probably also know about the T-1000 and he will know - or at least hypothesize (accounting for the possibility that the human resistance doesn't know for sure how time travel works) - that he will first contend with the T-800 in 1984 but that he might seek to stick around after that and join forces with the reprogrammed T-800 to fight the T-1000 in 1995. (Of course, according to the movie, he doesn't know anything about the T-1000 and the reprogrammed T-800 so that's just one reason of many why we're saying none of this is what happened, again - this is just an interesting hypothetical)

*also, what age John Connor is T-1000 expecting I wonder. Because while we know that Kyle Reese's son is 10 in 1995 does it necessarily follow that Original John was also born in 1985? Original John of original 2029 could have been younger than Kyle Reese's son John of the new 2029.

**damn, a further thought - what if even in a failed assassination attempt by the T-800 the experience completely changes Sarah Connor's life course and she never meets Original John's father anyway. This is also something Skynet could hope for in this scenario. So on the T-1000's checklist will be - A) is Sarah Connor still alive? and B) Does she still have a son called John? Not necessarily a given as far as he ought to be concerned even in the scenario where the T-800 failed - and he won't have known about Kyle Reese subbing in for Original John's Dad, so as far as he knows there should be a possibility that John doesn't exist at all now even if Sarah still does.

 

[DiFabio]

I still don’t see why John Connor cares if Skynet sends a machine into the past to kill him.

From Cameron and Wisher’s original screenplay and drafts for the first two films, Skynet clearly sends the T-800 and T-1000 back in time before Connor even gets access to the time lab and reprogram the T-800. And according to Reese, they clearly had to prep him to go back to 1984. So Skynet literally sends his boys back in time first. Considering John doesn’t vanish like Marty McFly at the Steel Mill after Cyberdyne and the Terminators are destroyed, I think it’s safe to say that future John has nothing to worry about if he just shrugs it off. Like, don’t even worry about it bro.

I understand why a machine would care about time and alternate realities for survival, but I don’t think humans would really care what happens in some other timeline? It would be like me obsessing about the outcome of my past self. Why would I dwell on what might have happened to me in a past event if it didn’t happen to ME in my current life?

It’s stupid.

Probably the real reason Cameron and Co. never wanted to show what led up to the event of time travel. It raises too many questions. You’d have to have a scene of the time travelers being sent back in time and if you’re showing the Terminator get sent back first before Reese, well, why does this scenario concern John and his soldiers? Better yet, how does timeline 1 John and Co. even know that Skynet sent a machine back in time? Skynet’s tech would be completely foreign and otherworldly to anyone able to get close enough to it’s inner sanctum. What does a time machine even look like to John Connor and Co. How did they recognize that a Terminator was even sent back in time? Is there a log book somewhere? By the time you find and figure out what Skynet did, why would you even care?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

You guys should read Terminator 2: Judgement Day - Cybernetic Dawn

It's a four part comic that came out in 1995 and it takes place after T2.

 

[Rotfish]

This cover couldn't be any more '90s if Jim Carrey smacked me in the face with it. Miss this kind of stuff.

 

[ajp4mgs]

ajp,

I know in this 3 timeline theory we're saying that a different timeline's Skynet sends the T-1000 to 1995 than the one that sent the T-800 to 1984 because that happens to be the best way to logically sort out what we see in T1 and T2. But can you help clarify what would happen if the same Skynet from one timeline did send multiple Terminators to different points in time? So lets pretend that the original Skynet did have a T-1000 at its disposal and decided to send both the T-800 to 1984 and the T-1000 to 1995. This won't create 2 separate new timeline branches right? One which the 1984 T-800 alone occupies and a different one which the T-1000 occupies. Because if that were the case then why wouldn't Kyle Reese have created a new branch all of his own when he went back. It seems to me that only one parallel timeline branch is required by 'the universe' as it seeks to avoid paradoxes. All time travellers sent from Timeline A will always arrive in a single timeline B, rather than each creating a timeline C, D, E etc. The single parallel timeline is effectively a reset back to the earliest chronological point in time that a time traveller arrives and is completely unwritten from then on.

Correct. In the hypothetical scenario that you're proposing, where the same future Skynet (and the same future John) send each of the four time travelers back, there's no reason for more than one branched timeline created.

The branching principle is only necessitated by a time traveler arriving at a point in the past which had already played out without him in it. In this case, though, the first arrival from T1 (either the T-800 or Reese) would branch the only alternate timeline necessary. Everyone following would arrive in that same new branch because there'd be no prior history to "re-write" or "erase" beyond May of 1984.

This means that subsequent time travellers won't quite know what they're coming into.

Also correct. The T-1000 and Uncle Bob would have no way of knowing what changes have occurred from their original timeline. For all they know, Sarah and Reese could've completely melted the T-800 (leaving no trace of advanced tech) and then died driving home. Neither the T-1000 nor Uncle Bob would have their primary mission to execute in the 1995 they arrive at.

For example, when the T-1000 arrives in 1995* he will already be aware that a T-800 had been sent to 1984 to kill Sarah Connor and may or may not have succeeded - the T-1000 will have to ascertain this. And if he discovers the T-800 failed then he will proceed with his mission to kill John** - trouble is...he'll be looking for the wrong John Connor - until he establishes that a Resistance soldier named Kyle Reese became the new father and created a different man called John Connor altogether.

Yep. I agree with your assessment of the T-1000's mission parameters in this scenario.

Kyle Reese meanwhile will probably also know about the T-1000 and he will know - or at least hypothesize (accounting for the possibility that the human resistance doesn't know for sure how time travel works) - that he will first contend with the T-800 in 1984 but that he might seek to stick around after that and join forces with the reprogrammed T-800 to fight the T-1000 in 1995. (Of course, according to the movie, he doesn't know anything about the T-1000 and the reprogrammed T-800 so that's just one reason of many why we're saying none of this is what happened, again - this is just an interesting hypothetical)

Not necessarily. Correct me if I'm wrong, but everything that we assume about John shutting down Skynet in 2029 is based on Reese's account. But Reese obviously left before the TDE was blown up. Therefore, it's possible that his experience with John having breached the Skynet defense grid didn't amount to the complete victory that Reese assumed it was.

Maybe John couldn't blow up the TDE right away after Reese was sent back. And you also mentioned in an earlier post that a hypothetical secret "off-site" facility could explain the existence of other TDE (and perhaps even a semi-independent Skynet contingency operation). This could mean that John's victory was delayed, and T-1000 models weren't discovered until after Kyle was sent back.

When the Skynet defense grid was smashed and the mainframes destroyed, Reese presumes the resistance had won. But maybe it wasn't the definitive killing blow if contingency operations had already been initiated and only discovered shortly after Reese left. He simply wouldn't/couldn't know the whole story.

*also, what age John Connor is T-1000 expecting I wonder. Because while we know that Kyle Reese's son is 10 in 1995 does it necessarily follow that Original John was also born in 1985? Original John of original 2029 could have been younger than Kyle Reese's son John of the new 2029.

Yeah, original John could've been younger than Kyle Reese's son. I suppose it's possible in this scenario that Skynet would've been targeting a younger kid in 1995 than the John who the T-1000 would actually encounter. A cool hypothetical.

**damn, a further thought - what if even in a failed assassination attempt by the T-800 the experience completely changes Sarah Connor's life course and she never meets Original John's father anyway. This is also something Skynet could hope for in this scenario. So on the T-1000's checklist will be - A) is Sarah Connor still alive? and B) Does she still have a son called John? Not necessarily a given as far as he ought to be concerned even in the scenario where the T-800 failed - and he won't have known about Kyle Reese subbing in for Original John's Dad, so as far as he knows there should be a possibility that John doesn't exist at all now even if Sarah still does.

More interesting hypothetical possibilities. But, as we discussed, the movies make it impossible for a 2-timeline scenario to make enough sense to be viable. And it's pretty clear that I think the single closed-loop timeline that the filmmakers were going for is even less viable. Thus, three is the key.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I still don?t see why John Connor cares if Skynet sends a machine into the past to kill him.

From Cameron and Wisher?s original screenplay and drafts for the first two films, Skynet clearly sends the T-800 and T-1000 back in time before Connor even gets access to the time lab and reprogram the T-800. And according to Reese, they clearly had to prep him to go back to 1984. So Skynet literally sends his boys back in time first. Considering John doesn?t vanish like Marty McFly at the Steel Mill after Cyberdyne and the Terminators are destroyed, I think it?s safe to say that future John has nothing to worry about if he just shrugs it off. Like, don?t even worry about it bro.

I understand why a machine would care about time and alternate realities for survival, but I don?t think humans would really care what happens in some other timeline? It would be like me obsessing about the outcome of my past self. Why would I dwell on what might have happened to me in a past event if it didn?t happen to ME in my current life?

It?s stupid.

Probably the real reason Cameron and Co. never wanted to show what led up to the event of time travel. It raises too many questions. You?d have to have a scene of the time travelers being sent back in time and if you?re showing the Terminator get sent back first before Reese, well, why does this scenario concern John and his soldiers? Better yet, how does timeline 1 John and Co. even know that Skynet sent a machine back in time? Skynet?s tech would be completely foreign and otherworldly to anyone able to get close enough to it?s inner sanctum. What does a time machine even look like to John Connor and Co. How did they recognize that a Terminator was even sent back in time? Is there a log book somewhere? By the time you find and figure out what Skynet did, why would you even care?

You can look at it as John believing that the only reason he doesn't disappear like Marty in 2029 is because the time travelers he'll send from the future are what actually allowed his survival in the past. That's why it makes more sense for his time travelers to be sent so that they arrive *before* Skynet's.

In other words, if he does nothing in 2029, then he might wonder if he'll "disappear" as soon as he locks into the decision to do nothing. But just by conceiving the idea to send his own soldier back in time, he might be convincing himself that it's what had to happen all along in order for him to even exist in 2029. He might think he's the one who secures his own past by preventing Skynet from erasing it. Lots of possible head games.

In a 3-timeline scenario it's a different 2029 John each time, so it's easier to explain all of this. But in a single-timeline, John would grow up pretty much always knowing that he'd someday send Kyle (in part to go conceive him) to May of 1984. And since the age of 10, he'd also know that he'd eventually be sending Uncle Bob back to 1995. If I went through all of the problematic logic and impossibilities of that single-timeline premise, it'd be almost endless. Total nonsense.

 

[a-dev]

I still don?t see why John Connor cares if Skynet sends a machine into the past to kill him.

From Cameron and Wisher?s original screenplay and drafts for the first two films, Skynet clearly sends the T-800 and T-1000 back in time before Connor even gets access to the time lab and reprogram the T-800. And according to Reese, they clearly had to prep him to go back to 1984. So Skynet literally sends his boys back in time first. Considering John doesn?t vanish like Marty McFly at the Steel Mill after Cyberdyne and the Terminators are destroyed, I think it?s safe to say that future John has nothing to worry about if he just shrugs it off. Like, don?t even worry about it bro.

I understand why a machine would care about time and alternate realities for survival, but I don?t think humans would really care what happens in some other timeline? It would be like me obsessing about the outcome of my past self. Why would I dwell on what might have happened to me in a past event if it didn?t happen to ME in my current life?

It?s stupid.

You can look at it as John believing that the only reason he doesn't disappear like Marty in 2029 is because the time travelers he'll send from the future are what actually allowed his survival in the past. That's why it makes more sense for his time travelers to be sent so that they arrive *before* Skynet's.

In other words, if he does nothing in 2029, then he might wonder if he'll "disappear" as soon as he locks into the decision to do nothing. But just by conceiving the idea to send his own soldier back in time, he might be convincing himself that it's what had to happen all along in order for him to even exist in 2029. He might think he's the one who secures his own past by preventing Skynet from erasing it. Lots of possible head games.

In a 3-timeline scenario it's a different 2029 John each time, so it's easier to explain all of this. But in a single-timeline, John would grow up pretty much always knowing that he'd someday send Kyle (in part to go conceive him) to May of 1984. And since the age of 10, he'd also know that he'd eventually be sending Uncle Bob back to 1995. If I went through all of the problematic logic and impossibilities of that single-timeline premise, it'd be almost endless. Total nonsense.

If, after discovering Skynet's time travel plot John found that there was nothing he could do about it, he would learn over the course of time that whatever Skynet had done didn't seem to impact their reality and he would simply live with the 'wondering' about what the whole point of it was. But the very fact he is in a position to respond, he knows he can do something about it - this compels him to act.

And here's what you said in an earlier post

The stakes stay just as high for John if he didn't know about the alternate timeline logistics. Skynet would/should know, but I'm not convinced as to why John would need to have the same understanding. So maybe he just thinks time travel would work in the same logically impossible way as in the Back to the Future series. In that case, he'd have the same urgency that Marty had throughout BTTF.

And even if John knew that parallel timelines meant that his would be unaltered by the time-travelling terminators, I'd like to think that he'd be the kind of person to still want to help those alternate versions. It'd still be alternate versions of himself and his mother, and so many potential *real* human casualties if he doesn't do something to try to intervene. And from a certain point of view, that awareness would make Kyle Reese even more of a selfless hero if John shared the details with him.

And DiFabio wasn't doubtful of Skynet's motivations but here's what you said about that anyway

As long as a piece of itself (via the T-800 and/or T-1000) would exist in the alternate timeline, then the original Skynet would have a chance to re-establish itself in a timeline other than its original one.

The Terminators could have further objectives to either specifically involve themselves in the development of Skynet in the new timeline or to simply wait until it is developed in the way that it already had been and then integrate themselves with it - giving it all the information the Skynet that sent them had possessed. Information is life to an AI. It is passing its lifeforce to the new iteration of itself.

Probably the real reason Cameron and Co. never wanted to show what led up to the event of time travel. It raises too many questions. You?d have to have a scene of the time travelers being sent back in time and if you?re showing the Terminator get sent back first before Reese, well, why does this scenario concern John and his soldiers? Better yet, how does timeline 1 John and Co. even know that Skynet sent a machine back in time? Skynet?s tech would be completely foreign and otherworldly to anyone able to get close enough to it?s inner sanctum. What does a time machine even look like to John Connor and Co. How did they recognize that a Terminator was even sent back in time? Is there a log book somewhere? By the time you find and figure out what Skynet did, why would you even care?

Well....as Ryan George always says in his Pitch Meetings - so the movies can happen. How does the Resistance recognize a time machine when they see it? I dunno, but they do. How do they find out the precise details of Skynet's plot? I dunno, but they do. How do they figure out how to use the time machine? I dunno, but they do.

The alternative scenario of the perpetual timeloop paradox where they know because they know they did it all before because Sarah and John fought Terminators in the past - that raises even more questions and headwrecking silliness that there has never been satisfying answers for.

 

[a-dev]

The guy on the upper right looks like the late Luke Perry of Beverly Hills 90120 fame.

Not necessarily. Correct me if I'm wrong, but everything that we assume about John shutting down Skynet in 2029 is based on Reese's account. But Reese obviously left before the TDE was blown up. Therefore, it's possible that his experience with John having breached the Skynet defense grid didn't amount to the complete victory that Reese assumed it was.

Maybe John couldn't blow up the TDE right away after Reese was sent back. And you also mentioned in an earlier post that a hypothetical secret "off-site" facility could explain the existence of other TDE (and perhaps even a semi-independent Skynet contingency operation). This could mean that John's victory was delayed, and T-1000 models weren't discovered until after Kyle was sent back.

When the Skynet defense grid was smashed and the mainframes destroyed, Reese presumes the resistance had won. But maybe it wasn't the definitive killing blow if contingency operations had already been initiated and only discovered shortly after Reese left. He simply wouldn't/couldn't know the whole story.

This is actually how I had always previously rationalized Kyle's apparent lack of awareness of the later T-1000 and Uncle Bob. Obviously the real reason was because a sequel wasn't planned when they made T1. But as an in-universe explanation it could be said that Reese, like Biehn's other character Corporal Hicks, was ''just a grunt'' - not necessarily in possession of all information/authority - or that it was simply a matter of the chronology of events - Reese being sent back before the plot with the T-1000 came to light.

But part of the brilliance of your Three Timeline theory is that now everything Reese said was true, his information was correct - the T-800 was the latest and most feared Terminator - and the time machine was indeed destroyed after he went through. Further brilliance is that this does not preclude T2 from happening because T2 arises from the new timeline created by T1.

More interesting hypothetical possibilities. But, as we discussed, the movies make it impossible for a 2-timeline scenario to make enough sense to be viable. And it's pretty clear that I think the single closed-loop timeline that the filmmakers were going for is even less viable. Thus, three is the key.

Agreed. Yes it would be the 2 timeline scenario we initially tried to apply a few weeks ago. I only brought it up because I had the thought that there was nothing (except perhaps the imminent invasion by Resistance forces) to stop Skynet from sending multiple Terminators to different times from out of the one timeline - as has always been the common interpretation of what happens in T1/T2. It's just that, for many reasons, it doesn't make sense with what's actually presented in the films for this to have been the case. So I started to wonder ''OK, so how should the movies have played out if this was what happened''. A lot of things would have to have been different. Storyline details, dialogue, character expectations would all need an overhaul.

Going with 3 timelines though it's possible to explain just about everything in the movies as they are.

 

[DiFabio]

In the T2 screenplay, Reese is sent back in time before they go and reprogram the T-800.

He’s not with them when they go to the cold storage room, so he’d never know.

 

[ajp4mgs]

...I only brought it up because I had the thought that there was nothing (except perhaps the imminent invasion by Resistance forces) to stop Skynet from sending multiple Terminators to different times from out of the one timeline - as has always been the common interpretation of what happens in T1/T2.

In just imagining a hypothetical strategy that Skynet might employ (irrespective of what is shown in the movies), my initial conclusion is that it would actually be very similar to what we've seen on screen.

Skynet would certainly run some sort of risk assessment before deploying terminators to the past, and would be factoring in things like the unlikely possibility of a unit being shut down and potentially made available to government scrutiny. That's because if such a (very unlikely) thing were to happen, the government might correctly assess the future threat of AI and establish protocols to prevent anything that advanced from ever being allowed any meaningful control in the future. This would forestall or eliminate Skynet's eventual autonomy. So, 2029 Skynet might conclude that a self-imposed limit on the number of units sent back in time would be a prudent and necessary measure.

There's also a question of how far back into the past the terminators should be sent. The closer to John's adulthood, the more prepared and capable he'd be to stop them (and maybe even bring the "remains" to government authorities for analysis). Conversely, the further back in time a terminator is sent, the longer it could potentially be discovered while it waits idly for Skynet to establish autonomy in 1997.

These are only a few factors to take into account, but already enough to conclude that Skynet might want to 1.) limit the time-travelling terminator quantity as much as possible, and 2.) keep the time destination within a 10-15 year range from John's birth. Why run the needless risks of having either too many idle terminators left around after mission accomplished, or of too much time for any idle terminators to stay "undercover" without suspicion, detection, or attention-getting confrontation?

If you look at it this way, just the two terminators almost a decade apart (as seen in the films) actually seems like a plausible strategy based on the potential risk parameters. Especially when considering that one terminator alone *should* be enough, with two being more than enough, to get the job done in an era where their tech would be vastly superior to anything native to that era available to humans.

 

[a-dev]

That might beg the question what did Skynet intend to do with Time Travel in the first place? How extensively did it originally intend to use it?

It has been said that Skynet used time travel out of desperation when it knew it was about to be defeated - trying to recall where I got this idea from actually - was it in a line of dialogue? Was it in the written on-screen exposition at the start of T1? Or was it something Cameron or Wisher said or wrote as exposition in the screenplays? But anyway - should we interpret it as Skynet ended up using time travel for a purpose other than it originally intended when it developed the TDE? If so what was the original intention for it?

Another hypothetical and a question on the theoretical side of time travel - we've said that time travel into the past creates just one parallel branch no matter how many time travellers are sent to no matter how many different points in time. Because this is all that is necessary to avoid paradoxes conflicting with the original timeline. But does literally any kind of time travel into the past create this single parallel branched timeline? Supposing Skynet has already performed a test-run of the TDE and sent a ferret back through time. (I was initially going to say a ''rock'' till I remembered it has to be a living thing) What if it sent that ferret to 1950? Would that mean the parallel timeline has already been created and it starts in 1950? This would mean that the T-800 and Kyle Reese merely join a pre-existing alternate timeline created by a ferret

 

[DiFabio]

You would think Skynet would have a self destruct protocol on the time machine so, once it’s T-800 and T-1000 are sent back, that’s it, no more uses.

 

[a-dev]

Good point. Or booby trap it so that when the Resistance tries to use it they die.

 

[ajp4mgs]

It has been said that Skynet used time travel out of desperation when it knew it was about to be defeated - trying to recall where I got this idea from actually - was it in a line of dialogue? Was it in the written on-screen exposition at the start of T1? Or was it something Cameron or Wisher said or wrote as exposition in the screenplays?

When Dr. Silberman asks Kyle why Skynet would use such an elaborate scheme, Kyle responds with this: "It had no choice. Their defense grid was smashed. We'd won. Taking out Connor then would make no difference. Skynet had to wipe out his entire existence!"

But anyway - should we interpret it as Skynet ended up using time travel for a purpose other than it originally intended when it developed the TDE? If so what was the original intention for it?

I think Skynet would've invented time travel to go into the future, rather than into the past. Going into the past doesn't benefit Skynet in any way, but going into the future would assist them tremendously.

By sending a terminator unit into the future, Skynet could get instantaneous new knowledge. Why instantaneous? Because the TDE would exist in the same exact location in the future. So, a terminator can arrive in the future, download (or otherwise take note of) new tech and info, then use the TDE there to return back to its original time and feed the new data into Skynet (which wouldn't care about the return trip creating a branched timeline).

This method would allow Skynet to develop by leaps and bounds rather than by incremental steps. And going to the future would not create a branched timeline. The future in one timeline is always "re-writable" to those who have not experienced it yet.

Another hypothetical and a question on the theoretical side of time travel - we've said that time travel into the past creates just one parallel branch no matter how many time travellers are sent to no matter how many different points in time. Because this is all that is necessary to avoid paradoxes conflicting with the original timeline. But does literally any kind of time travel into the past create this single parallel branched timeline?

Time travel *to the past* is what creates a branched parallel timeline. So yes, even sending a ferret (or simply just a rock) to the past would create a new timeline from that point forward.

The key in a scenario where multiple trips to the past are made is that the time jump which goes the furthest/earliest into the past can create a branch that the others can then simply merge into. The ferret (or rock) would create a new branch if it's either a.) the "earliest" time jump, or b.) the only time jump. But if other "earlier" jumps have been made, the ferret can slide into the branched timeline already existing.

Supposing Skynet has already performed a test-run of the TDE and sent a ferret back through time. (I was initially going to say a ''rock'' till I remembered it has to be a living thing) What if it sent that ferret to 1950? Would that mean the parallel timeline has already been created and it starts in 1950? This would mean that the T-800 and Kyle Reese merely join a pre-existing alternate timeline created by a ferret

I love this idea because of how hilarious it is, but Skynet would not have tested their TDE by going into the past. Skynet would be sophisticated enough to understand branched timeline principles, and would also have no way of knowing whether or not the ferret (or anyone) arrived safely in the past. But in the future, the same TDE equipment could be used to come back and provide instant (or "quasi-instant") confirmation that it works.

I'd like to revisit a line from this part of your post...

I was initially going to say a ''rock'' till I remembered it has to be a living thing

Here's another potential way that the 3-timeline explanation does a better job (IMO) of answering a "plot hole" from T2. We learn from Reese that "You go naked. Something about the field generated by a living organism. Nothing dead will go."

And that's true... for *his* version of Skynet's TDE. But Skynet in our Timeline #2 develops differently by being more advanced. So when it sends the T-1000, that liquid metal body wouldn't need a "skin cocoon" (or any other weird explanation). Maybe Timeline #2 Skynet develops TDE that can actually transport metal (or at least liquid metal) through time.

As for why the T-1000 arrives without clothes or weapons, I prefer to handwave that away by saying that the T-1000 came straight off the assembly line and sent in a rushed manner. It's not like Skynet was manufacturing human clothing at their underground facility where the TDE was. And the T-1000 wouldn't need a weapon anyway. Besides, clothes and weapons from the future would stick out like a sore thumb. It'd be better to just "morph" to blend into how people in 1995 are dressed.

Whadaya think?

 

[ajp4mgs]

This recent discussion about Skynet's TDE got me thinking about a possible sequel. What if Skynet had sent terminators into the future (well beyond 2029) to be part of a "re-colonizing" army even before sending any into the past to deal with John?

Here's how it would work. When the TDE is invented, Skynet tests it by sending one of its machines into the future to gather intel and return back in time. If the TDE is still there, a version of Skynet in 2029 would learn about the human victory. If not, Skynet would surmise that the TDE had been destroyed in the future. And one possible scenario being that an eventual victorious human resistance could've wiped out all traces of Skynet.

Because Skynet sophistication would immediately formulate contingencies based on this possibility, they'd probably send more units into the future with the intention of creating a new TDE facility there so one could return back through time to provide an intel report.

Another smart course of action for Skynet would be to send other machines to the same point in the future to begin establishing an entire new network where Skynet could be "reborn" there. This could include terminators for protection and infiltration.

This really shows that the TDE was always a great idea for Skynet, and how future time travel would be an ingenious priority to ensure its ongoing existence. We've always thought about how backward time travel was used for that purpose, but has any comic/novel/other story ever been told about how *forward* time travel would be used to accomplish the same goal?

 

[a-dev]

Whadaya think?

It's certainly making me think. But I'm actually having a harder time with forward time travel than time travel into the past!

I felt I'd better post this acknowledgment right now because my response could take me days and meanwhile you may see me posting in other threads during my breaks