Tamashii Soul of Chogokin C-3PO & R2-D2

[Lejuan]

This is the most awesome first post I've read on this forum, or anywhere.

 

[bobh84]

There was a time in the mid-late 90's when Toy Biz created prototype 6" Star Wars action figures with light up & talking electronic display stands. I was in a meeting with the Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker Bespin duel action figures. They were very cool and you have no idea how close that came to happening. It was to be a "new" action figure license that would co-exist with Hasbro's license. Hasbro flipped out, promised to make something BETTER that would generate MORE MONEY for LucasFilm.

Hasbro's product was rushed out as the "comm-tech" line of figures.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

There was a time in the mid-late 90's when Toy Biz created prototype 6" Star Wars action figures with light up & talking electronic display stands. I was in a meeting with the Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker Bespin duel action figures. They were very cool and you have no idea how close that came to happening. It was to be a "new" action figure license that would co-exist with Hasbro's license. Hasbro flipped out, promised to make something BETTER that would generate MORE MONEY for LucasFilm.

Hasbro's product was rushed out as the "comm-tech" line of figures.

Wow.

As Lejuan said, great earlier post. Welcome to the boards dude.

 

[TheFiend]

Commtech. Wasn't that those stupid stands with the voice chip or something. Those were lame. Interesting posts though. Welcome to the board.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mad Old Lu]

This is the most awesome first post I've read on this forum, or anywhere.

Wow.

As Lejuan said, great earlier post. Welcome to the boards dude.

Welcome!

 

[Pixelpiper]

DISCLAIMER: I don't work on the toy industry, I don't work for or with any of the companies being discussed, I do not have an insider information. If I did, I wouldn't be speaking about it in a forum, risking my job and the very deals being discussed. I believe in Occam's razor.

https://investor.hasbro.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=779213

I know because I've been working in IP licensing for 15 years. I've worked with Disney, LucasFilm and Star Wars, and with many many other IPs.

Good luck with that, and welcome to the board. Hasbro (and Kenner before it) SW licensing has shown us precisely what's what. The language of their respective press releases over this past decade have also been pretty clear. See also Lego and Galoob announcements and performances in 1997/98. Incidentally, Hasbro bought Galoob in 1998, in no small part due to its SW license (though it was Hasbro's own fault anyone besides them had a license at the time to begin with, as they effectively terminated Kenner's perpetual exclusivity agreement).

I'm going by information that is publicly available, I'm not pretending to have any inside knowledge. If you have any specific knowledge of these specific deals, then by all means share it, it would be great to know what's up. But the rest just posted? You might as well be arguing about blue versus brown coats.

And since we're talking cold hard dollars, what do you think that Hot Toys, Bandai and Medicom, combined can bring to the table? Seriously, think for one second about what you just posted, use your experience in this industry. For every dollar they bring to the table, Hasbro will bring $1000 at the very least. Hot Toys and Bandai will not get a Star Wars license without Hasbro and Sideshow's letting it happen.

I would be absolutely floored (surprised, blown away, shocked) to find out that Hasbro's worldwide exclusive license did not include a Right of First Refusal clause as well, that applies to any new business of any kind related to Star Wars merchandising in their related field(s) during the contract period, including for the purposes of extensions - which they've always done well before the previous deals have expired (again, all public info). We also can't forget about the existing Lego business covering building toys - I have no idea how that will play out in the future as I don't think there's been any announcements on extensions.

To get back to dollars, it was announced this past July that Hasbro has guaranteed an additional $225 MILLION minimum for an additional two years beyond the previously negotiated 2018 time-line for Star Wars licensing alone, plus another 80 Million for Marvel. That takes them to the 2020 date previously mentioned.

 

[demorathis]

DISCLAIMER: I don't work on the toy industry, I don't work for or with any of the companies being discussed, I do not have an insider information. If I did, I wouldn't be speaking about it in a forum, risking my job and the very deals being discussed. I believe in Occam's razor.



Good luck with that, and welcome to the board. Hasbro (and Kenner before it) SW licensing has shown us precisely what's what. The language of their respective press releases over this past decade have also been pretty clear. See also Lego and Galoob announcements and performances in 1997/98. Incidentally, Hasbro bought Galoob in 1998, in no small part due to its SW license (though it was Hasbro's own fault anyone besides them had a license at the time to begin with, as they effectively terminated Kenner's perpetual exclusivity agreement).

I'm going by information that is publicly available, I'm not pretending to have any inside knowledge. If you have any specific knowledge of these specific deals, then by all means share it, it would be great to know what's up. But the rest just posted? You might as well be arguing about blue versus brown coats.

And since we're talking cold hard dollars, what do you think that Hot Toys, Bandai and Medicom, combined can bring to the table? Seriously, think for one second about what you just posted, use your experience in this industry. For every dollar they bring to the table, Hasbro will bring $1000 at the very least. Hot Toys and Bandai will not get a Star Wars license without Hasbro and Sideshow's letting it happen.

I would be absolutely floored (surprised, blown away, shocked) to find out that Hasbro's worldwide exclusive license did not include a Right of First Refusal clause as well, that applies to any new business of any kind related to Star Wars merchandising in their related field(s) during the contract period, including for the purposes of extensions - which they've always done well before the previous deals have expired (again, all public info). We also can't forget about the existing Lego business covering building toys - I have no idea how that will play out in the future as I don't think there's been any announcements on extensions.

To get back to dollars, it was announced this past July that Hasbro has guaranteed an additional $225 MILLION minimum for an additional two years beyond the previously negotiated 2018 time-line for Star Wars licensing alone, plus another 80 Million for Marvel. That takes them to the 2020 date previously mentioned.

Let's not forget who owns the property...
C3po was already created by bandai as a 1/6 metal figure.
No one else has the built in infrastructure to do that like bandai ( they have a loooong history of die cast robots...since before Star Wars ever came to the big screen)
Marmit, was making 1/6 scale figures in the 90's while hasbro/ kenner made 12" figures... ( touted as models) with minimal assembly.
Medicom made 12" figures ...and still does...
As long as they can create something different enough, they can wield that license...who draws the line? The property owner and their licensee...even fine lines. If company a can make vinyl figures, company b can make vinyl "kits" simply by distributing unassembled...that's kotobukiya...
Figurines sold individually? Lego tried, but that didn't bode well, so add a magnet and it's now a magnet not a figure...
They can do whatever they want and create whatever they want ...you think hasbro will play ball? You bet, because they want to keep their relationship in good shape for the future and they have thus far...
Look at how many companies make license lightsabers, albeit for different purposes...toy, prop, fx prop, fx toy, light for bedroom, model kit,candy toy, confectionary, jewelry, letter opener, umbrella, etc...even though the appearances are similar,...

Look at the multitude of companies that've created darth vaders head...all for specific purposes, but they look practically the same , size wise, sometimes sharing molds, even sculptors, all licensed, many concurrently...you would even know what's what on a shelf...
Fast food premiums, simplified action figures, sd figures, ...all figures have their own categories, and still more can be dreamed up...

 

[Pixelpiper]

Just to put some clarification in the above…

Marmit: via Hasbro
Medicom: via Sideshow via Hasbro
Bandai: via Sideshow via Hasbro

Disney and Hasbro seem to have a very close relationship and all signs indicate it's only getting closer. No one's going to move on Star Wars Toys without it going through Hasbro first. Why do people continue to ignore the facts that are publicly available? Am I the only one that knows how to visit these corporate web sites? To use Google? Am I the only one that owns any of these products and can look at all the copyright and licensing labels on them?

And just to be DOUBLY sure… We're talking about new companies producing the exact same product class as an existing worldwide exclusive rights holder, not someone wanting to make keychains or food products.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

I wonder what happened to those 3A 6" SW figures that were in the proto stage.. & how that fit into the equation, more specifically.

Seems Bob's earlier anecdote kinda hits home in that regard. 3A teased some protos - next thing you know, Hasbro's got a fully fledged line of 6" SW action figures.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Seems Bob's earlier anecdote kinda hits home in that regard. 3A teased some protos - next thing you know, Hasbro's got a fully fledged line of 6" SW action figures.

Or would a more simple explanation be that Hasbro sub-licensed out the design duties to 3A? Because there's no way that 3A could have entered into any kind of agreement going around Hasbro promising a more lucrative return. Failing any inside knowledge, I'd bet on the simple answer.

Speaking of 3A, I'd love to know how they got the Walking Dead rights. But more importantly, I want to grab some of the figures. I was very disappointed when I learned McFarlane, the small-scale statue maker renowned for poor head sculpts, was handling the Walking Dead.

I'm sure we'd all love to know more about the Hasbro-Sideshow-HotToys deals, including for properties like GI Joe and Marvel, which are also controlled by Hasbro and produced by all three.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Yeah look - I realize that 3A wouldn't have even been able to pop their heads up, without going through the proper channels.

Hasbro has the financial muscle - we all realize that too, & they've negotiated a pretty strong contract going forward.. that's common knowledge as you've said.

My point was, that it's not as cut & dry as some may think; things get discussed & considered all the time (again as previously mentioned) - you can't deny that surely.

 

[TheFiend]

All I know is that 3A Fett looked all kinds of cool.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk 2

 

[Pixelpiper]

My point was, that it's not as cut & dry as some may think; things get discussed & considered all the time (again as previously mentioned) - you can't deny that surely.

I'm not denying anything, but when all parties involved, the biggest ones being publicly traded, make a public announcements as to the scope of their contracts, I tend to take them at their word - along with I suppose the SEC and their shareholders.

So while we have a practical example of another company involved in Star Wars toy product, Lego, to believe that anyone can simply walk into Disney and get a license for an action figure without sub-licensing or some other contractual "OK" from Hasbro is absolutely stretching all limits of imagination.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Yeah.. the first sentence of my previous post just covered your last little quip there.

 

[demorathis]

Just to put some clarification in the above…

Marmit: via Hasbro
Medicom: via Sideshow via Hasbro
Bandai: via Sideshow via Hasbro

Disney and Hasbro seem to have a very close relationship and all signs indicate it's only getting closer. No one's going to move on Star Wars Toys without it going through Hasbro first. Why do people continue to ignore the facts that are publicly available? Am I the only one that knows how to visit these corporate web sites? To use Google? Am I the only one that owns any of these products and can look at all the copyright and licensing labels on them?

And just to be DOUBLY sure… We're talking about new companies producing the exact same product class as an existing worldwide exclusive rights holder, not someone wanting to make keychains or food products.

My point is the owner of the license ( lucasfilm/ Disney) can choose to divy up rights however they want to...it's true and it's always been true.
btw I don't see tomy in your lineup...I'm pretty sure it would be somewhere between hasbro and marmit...

Did reds get their license through hasbro?...it's a vinyl figure, even though the wording is as a model...or as completed model...

die cast figure in 1/6 is not the same product class...
There are different safety issues involved, materials, price points perhaps, even though there are things that overlap...the difference being the material...they may be categorized as "chogokin" and that's certainly not hot toys or sideshow territory...

Even The godzilla property has been divided up between very similar manufacturers, some producing retro style vinyl, super deformed vinyl, realistic assembled vinyl figures ( garage figures, ...there are technicalities that can provide for figures that can be almost in direct competition plus or minus a few traits...bandai can make 14" vinyl figures, so can xplus, but xplus may have minimal articulation and sold exclusively through certain channels...

Ip laws allow a multitude of ways if they wanted to sell a license directly to a new licensee, but that's up to the license holder...as long a sits not the exact same category however it is defined by the terms of the licensing agreement, there should be no issue.

 

[Pixelpiper]

My point is the owner of the license ( lucasfilm/ Disney) can choose to divy up rights however they want to..

Sure, but these things are done by contract, not by a wink and a smile. And Hasbro currently has the worldwide exclusive contract for a broad entertainment category until 2020. Seriously (this is getting repetitive) go and read the press releases. Investors and other people with interest in these companies don't think these contracts are trivial.

Don't make an assumption that anyone out there producing in this category does so without Hasbro's OK.

 

[demorathis]

Sure, but these things are done by contract, not by a wink and a smile. And Hasbro currently has the worldwide exclusive contract for a broad entertainment category until 2020. Seriously (this is getting repetitive) go and read the press releases. Investors and other people with interest in these companies don't think these contracts are trivial.

Don't make an assumption that anyone out there producing in this category does so without Hasbro's OK.

Of course not...that's what the purchase of licensing is...I don't think anyone on this board is foolish enough to think this is all free...
And it wouldn't be proper for lucasfilm not to consult their biggest licensor-- of course that goes without saying....but that doesn't mean they don't have the ability to do what they want...after all, look at the decisions that've already been carried out, the dissolving of lucasarts, the dissolving of the relationship with dark horse,...
I'm not implying they'd leave hasbro...that's a match made in heaven...but lucasfilm / Disney wears the pants in that relationship...and if they wanted to, they can create a niche for a specific license...

 

[Lejuan]

I think what Bob's post articulates, above all else, is that a Bandai/Tamashii is a possibility.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Let me explain this image… With an image. And more words.

But seriously, it can happen, just not the way some people think it will happen. There's certainly no real money in it for LFL/Disney.

 

[Lejuan]

Wassa matter Pixel, not the smartest guy in the thread anymore?