Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[pixletwin]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Didn't they enlist a group of marines to do the motion capture for the Utapau clones? I thought that was actually pretty cool.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Yes, there's very few things in the OT that look actually realistic---meaning the stuff that's not actually real. I don't know if you can compare CG clones to stormtroopers since they're different designs that aren't filmed together. We have seen CG stormtrooper with real stormtroopers though in the special editions of the OT which look just fine.

I don't mind a CG trooper riding a dewback in the background (generally speaking that is, I actually hate all things "SE.") But have them all standing around Mace Windu in close-up while Sam Jackson looks several inches above their heads as he directs them in battle is quite jarring and unconvincing.

Utapau was like 3 very detailed miniatures, if you are complaining about that not looking realistic compared to using realistic models then you might be confused.

Eh, I just picked a fake looking planet from the PT to compare to actual Norway. The landing platform where Obi-Wan is talking to those tall dudes looked totally CG and fake. If they somehow accomplished in making a miniature look like a badly done cartoon then I suppose that is cause for an amount of dubious praise.

As far as things not looking realistic---take for instance the AT-At walkers in ESB, they don't look very realistic because it's stop-motion, the go-motion technique only added camera motion blur so the actual motions still look fake. On top of that, since they blew up miniatures, the explosion scale is way too small and doesn't look real either.

If you want to compare scenes with walkers/troopers/and aircraft to one another then the AT-AT sequences destroy the dreadful Kashyyyk cartoon. The AT-AT advancing on the fleeing rebel footsoldiers is much better realized than the painful CG BARC troopers walking, running around and getting shot and flying through the air and doing the splits among all cartoony vehicles.

 

[darthviper107]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

If Samuel L. Jackson is crappy at acting, blame him, not the CG artists.

I would take a real thing any day, if it's actually real. So real snow landscape is better than fake, but there aren't real places or things for a lot of stuff.

BTW--that landing platform Obi-Wan was on at Kamino was a real set, of course they added the ocean in around it, but the platform and the Jedi Starfighter (and rain) were real.

If something doesn't look real to you, explain why, don't just say it looks fake. Because again, anything that's not possible is going to be obviously fake.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

If something doesn't look real to you, explain why, don't just say it looks fake. Because again, anything that's not possible is going to be obviously fake.

I did. I said those elements in the PT simply looked cartoony and very Cool World-esque.

 

[IrishJedi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

If you want to compare scenes with walkers/troopers/and aircraft to one another then the AT-AT sequences destroy the dreadful Kashyyyk cartoon. The AT-AT advancing on the fleeing rebel footsoldiers is much better realized than the painful CG BARC troopers walking, running around and getting shot and flying through the air and doing the splits among all cartoony vehicles.

Yeah, that's not even close, either.

 

[Darthrazz]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I thought the Anakin CGI was a bit wooden , but Hayden Christenen's voice over was a bit stiff as well. I think Ewan McGregor did his best to interact with a CGI actor as best as he could.

 

[IrishJedi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

OT Battle aesthetic:

PT Battle aesthetic:

Umm, yeah....

 

[K07]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Best battles in the PT are all from TPM. The assault on Theed led by Panaka and Padme in particular looked good. The other movies look like video game cinematics at times. Practical effects and sets vs green screens and CGI. One is clearly better than the other.

LotR overall had the best approach to CGI and practical effects. I'd like to see something similar.

 

[darthviper107]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I did. I said those elements in the PT simply looked cartoony and very Cool World-esque.

Those aren't critiques, what about it makes it look cartoony? A cartoon is a style that looks nothing like CG, even bad CG doesn't look like a cartoon.

OT Battle aesthetic:

PT Battle aesthetic:

Umm, yeah....

And what about it doesn't look realistic? Plus again, you can't actually compare real-world locations to ones that don't even exist in the real-world and therefore have to be fake anyways. What was a better alternative?

 

[darthviper107]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Best battles in the PT are all from TPM. The assault on Theed led by Panaka and Padme in particular looked good. The other movies look like video game cinematics at times. Practical effects and sets vs green screens and CGI. One is clearly better than the other.

LotR overall had the best approach to CGI and practical effects. I'd like to see something similar.

Lord of the Rings probably had more CG than the Star Wars movies, and couldn't have been done otherwise either:

 

[pixletwin]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I don't think you need to be able to articulate something to have a valid POV. Sometimes something looks fake because on a subconscious level your brain just knows.

 

[darthviper107]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

No, there's very specific physical reasons why something might not look realistic, bad lighting, bad materials, bad compositing, bad animation. Which is it? I can name specific reasons why practical FX in the OT aren't as good to support my view, if you disagree then you need to support your own view. Otherwise it's just a personal opinion in which case you can say "I don't like this" but you can't say "it looks bad"
You just don't like the aesthetic, which is fine. Don't go dumping on an industry by saying they're doing things wrong when it's just something you don't like.

 

[IrishJedi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I don't like the cartoony CG in the LOTR movies at times, either.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

No. If one disagrees they can simply disagree without any obligation to explain it beyond simple taste.

Fact is most people aren't equipped with the tools to articulate themselves to the satisfaction of someone, like yourself, who has a degree in this stuff.

As a person who holds degrees in music, I see the same thing when a person describes why they like or don't like a certain piece of music. I don't expect the layman to tell me he doesn't like how a certain cadence resolves or he doesn't enjoy the combination of timbres a certain composer chooses to use. They just "don't like it" and that is as far as they can go. I may not agree with it but I certainly don't expect them to defend their POV from an academic vantage point in order for their opinion to be valid.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

And yeah, the CGI in ROTS really bugged me at times too.

 

[IrishJedi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

It's absolutely an aesthetic thing. I already said that. There is just something about an image that is all 1's and 0's and nothing captured tangibly that just translates as "fake" to me, even though it's ALL make believe.

Also, I fully believe CG animation is just over-used now and has become a creative crutch for many filmmakers (which is why almost all the current huge action sequences look & feel generic now). Ironic, since this technology was actually supposed to do the opposite. And it could have. Instead, it just makes filmmakers lazy.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

TPM's strength is definitely in the practical stuff.

George went crazy with the other two films.. we all know he did.

Someone said earlier that ROTS reminded them of a video game sequence sometimes - it was totally like that.

You just disengage from the movie after a short while, because it's jarring as **** to sit through.

 

[darthviper107]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

No. If one disagrees they can simply disagree without any obligation to explain it beyond simple taste.

Fact is most people aren't equipped with the tools to articulate themselves to the satisfaction of someone, like yourself, who has a degree in this stuff.

As a person who holds degrees in music, I see the same thing when a person describes why they like or don't like a certain piece of music. I don't expect the layman to tell me he doesn't like how a certain cadence resolves or he doesn't enjoy the combination of timbres a certain composer chooses to use. They just "don't like it" and that is as far as they can go. I may not agree with it but I certainly don't expect them to defend their POV from an academic vantage point in order for their opinion to be valid.

There's a difference though, if someone doesn't like music it's a matter of taste and opinion. They don't say---"this music is bad, they don't know how to play an instrument" which is what you guys are saying about CG. You can dislike it, but if you say it isn't made well then you need to articulate why, otherwise you're just blowing hot air.

 

[darthviper107]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

TPM's strength is definitely in the practical stuff.

George went crazy with the other two films.. we all know he did.

Someone said earlier that ROTS reminded them of a video game sequence sometimes - it was totally like that.

You just disengage from the movie after a short while, because it's jarring as **** to sit through.

The only difference in production of the 3 movies is that TPM was shot on film whereas the others were shot digitally. They used about the same amount of practical FX and CG.

 

[IrishJedi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

There's a difference though, if someone doesn't like music it's a matter of taste and opinion. They don't say---"this music is bad, they don't know how to play an instrument" which is what you guys are saying about CG. You can dislike it, but if you say it isn't made well then you need to articulate why, otherwise you're just blowing hot air.

I don't think anyone here is hammering on CG animators themselves. They do what they can. It's HOW the technology is used by so many filmmakers that is troublesome to many of us. Because the aesthetic, frankly, still isn't photo-real enough. Suspension of disbelief should be paramount, and too many of today's CG-laden sequences pull me right out of a movie every time.