Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[Centurion]

The audience was so loud at that point that nobody knows.

I think it was something like, "Oi, come here you little ****!"

LOL! That would have been classic!

I think he said "Ben". If so, is that not the name of Luke and Mara's son? Just asking, not that I expect the movies to follow the EU but just saying.

 

[dao2]

I heard Ben as well, but I assume it was just Ren.

 

[Khev]

And I thought Kylo was really, really good, as was Dameron. It was a curious decision to have Rey kick Kylo's ass out the gate in the first film. But I'm sure there is a plan in place.

Wow, glad you enjoyed the film. And yeah, I loved Kylo. Fantastic character all around, and I love that they resisted the urge to just make him the new most badassedest thing ever.

Regarding:

Spoiler:

His fight with Rey, I believe that their duel fully exposed him as the "Vader poser" that he feared he would be recognized as. And I think that makes him even more fascinating as a character. He really does have a lot to learn, and has a suppressed frustration and anger that he just isn't there *yet.* I feel like I'm already getting with Kylo a lot of what I hoped/wanted Anakin to be in the prequels but never got to see.

Yes, it was incredibly derivative and full of plenty of winks and nods to the original trilogy.

Spoiler:

But not ONE SINGLE REFERENCE to ANYTHING in the prequel trilogy! I couldn't believe it! You literally could watch nothing but the Harmy OT and be perfectly set up for TFA. I guess I assumed that part of Disney's master plan would be that Abrams would incorporate elements of the PT into TFA to validate the prequel films. But nope. I guess they're just moving on as if they never existed.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I thought the way they handled

Spoiler:

Han Solo's death was cruel and cold. He didn't put up a fight. There was no emotional send off either to a legendary character, no one reflects on Han, no eulogy...nothing, just his CGI body falling down a shaft...and everyone just moves on, they blow up the thing and everyone celebrates and it's all nice...but what about Han? I just kept thinking about him. That wasn't very SW, imo. Even in MOS when Pa Kent dies it was a big deal and Sups thinks about it and in the end there's a nice flashback scene of Pa Kent watching a young Clark with a smile on his face.

The last time we see Han, it's like he's getting flushed down the toilet

 

[karamazov80]

To Khev, I suspect that's true, and we'll see Kylo more fully embracing the dark side in part 8, inching closer toward what Vader was.

Spoiler:

To Clown Prince, we saw the reaction from Chewy, Rey, Finn, and later Leia, that were all pretty heartfelt, I thought. But the film as a whole certainly didn't dwell on it very much. And for a character of that stature, seeing him get the equivalent of Vader's cremation would have made some sense. But it was a long movie, and maybe they felt they couldn't spend the time to do more than they did.

 

[pturtle]

I thought the way they handled

Spoiler:

Han Solo's death was cruel and cold. He didn't put up a fight. There was no emotional send off either to a legendary character, no one reflects on Han, no eulogy...nothing, just his CGI body falling down a shaft...and everyone just moves on, they blow up the thing and everyone celebrates and it's all nice...but what about Han? I just kept thinking about him. That wasn't very SW, imo. Even in MOS when Pa Kent dies it was a big deal and Sups thinks about it and in the end there's a nice flashback scene of Pa Kent watching a young Clark with a smile on his face.

The last time we see Han, it's like he's getting flushed down the toilet

This was one of my biggest problems, and the fact that the entire scene was horribly shot, and far too predictable really ruined the entire scene for me.


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[The Clown Prince of Crime]

To Khev, I suspect that's true, and we'll see Kylo more fully embracing the dark side in part 8, inching closer toward what Vader was.

Spoiler:

To Clown Prince, we saw the reaction from Chewy, Rey, Finn, and later Leia, that were all pretty heartfelt, I thought. But the film as a whole certainly didn't dwell on it very much. And for a character of that stature, seeing him get the equivalent of Vader's cremation would have made some sense. But it was a long movie, and maybe they felt they couldn't spend the time to do more than they did.

Spoiler:

They showed the other characters initial reaction, just like they showed Luke's reaction in ANH when Obi wan dies, but then the story slows down, and we get a moment of Luke reflecting on it. In this film, it happens quick, and because there's so much going on and some unfinished things, they moved on and we don't get a moment to say, so long! I think he deserved better.

 

[Centurion]

Regarding:

Spoiler:

His fight with Rey, I believe that their duel fully exposed him as the "Vader poser" that he feared he would be recognized as. And I think that makes him even more fascinating as a character. He really does have a lot to learn, and has a suppressed frustration and anger that he just isn't there *yet.* I feel like I'm already getting with Kylo a lot of what I hoped/wanted Anakin to be in the prequels but never got to see.

Spoiler:

But not ONE SINGLE REFERENCE to ANYTHING in the prequel trilogy! I couldn't believe it! You literally could watch nothing but the Harmy OT and be perfectly set up for TFA. I guess I assumed that part of Disney's master plan would be that Abrams would incorporate elements of the PT into TFA to validate the prequel films. But nope. I guess they're just moving on as if they never existed.

Yeah, I noticed that too! "Thank goodness!" is all I have to say about that.

 

[Centurion]

I thought the way they handled

Spoiler:

Han Solo's death was cruel and cold. He didn't put up a fight. There was no emotional send off either to a legendary character, no one reflects on Han, no eulogy...nothing, just his CGI body falling down a shaft...and everyone just moves on, they blow up the thing and everyone celebrates and it's all nice...but what about Han? I just kept thinking about him. That wasn't very SW, imo. Even in MOS when Pa Kent dies it was a big deal and Sups thinks about it and in the end there's a nice flashback scene of Pa Kent watching a young Clark with a smile on his face.

The last time we see Han, it's like he's getting flushed down the toilet

His death was very cold and I felt that sadness thoroughly. I didn't think we needed to see a ceremony to get that emotional effect. That said, there's still a possibility that there was a ceremony that was filmed. We may get to see one as a "Delelted scene" segment for the home release.

 

[karamazov80]

Spoiler:

They showed the other characters initial reaction, just like they showed Luke's reaction in ANH when Obi wan dies, but then the story slows down, and we get a moment of Luke reflecting on it. In this film, it happens quick, and because there's so much going on and some unfinished things, they moved on and we don't get a moment to say, so long! I think he deserved better.

Yeah, that's what I mean when I'm saying that the film didn't dwell on it. And I agree with your last point.

As for prequel references, there was one, when they referred to the dark side residing with the Sith, and then with the Empire, and now with the New World Order or whatever they're called. I could be mistaken, but I don't recall "Sith" being used at all in the original films. I commented to my wife as we left that there were no other prequel references, and that's. . .a good thing.

 

[Khev]

Yeah, I noticed that too! "Thank goodness!" is all I have to say about that.

I actually made a point a couple times during a few of the group shots of aliens to see if they featured some alien that was introduced in the PT or a repurposed battle droid or something. Nothin'. We could have gone the last 32 years since ROTJ with no SE's, no PT, no EU, no Clone Wars, literally nothing SW related of any kind and TFA would have still fit perfectly as a continuation of the OT. *That's* cool.

I also liked that (MASSIVE SPOILER):

Spoiler:

I kind of feel like TFA gave us a "proper" ROTJ. Harrison Ford was very public about wishing that Han Solo died "doing something profanely heroic" in ROTJ and that Lawrence Kasdan really wanted to have either Han or Lando die to make the stakes seem higher and the threat of the Empire greater but Lucas wouldn't have it because he wanted ROTJ to be an optimistic feel good movie with no downers at all. I've got to believe that the major selling point of returning to SW for Ford was getting the finale he always wanted for his character. It was great to see that play out.

 

[karamazov80]

Was R2-KT in this one? I read somewhere that it would be, but didn't see it.

 

[Centurion]

I also liked that (MASSIVE SPOILER):

Spoiler:

I kind of feel like TFA gave us a "proper" ROTJ. Harrison Ford was very public about wishing that Han Solo died "doing something profanely heroic" in ROTJ and that Lawrence Kasdan really wanted to have either Han or Lando die to make the stakes seem higher and the threat of the Empire greater but Lucas wouldn't have it because he wanted ROTJ to be an optimistic feel good movie with no downers at all. I've got to believe that the major selling point of returning to SW for Ford was getting the finale he always wanted for his character. It was great to see that play out.

There's a very good possibility that I fabricated this in my head, but

Spoiler:

I think I recall Ford saying in an interview, that when asked to do Ep.VII, he agreed to it only if they would kill off his character.

 

[Centurion]

Was R2-KT in this one? I read somewhere that it would be, but didn't see it.

If so, I missed it as well.

 

[karamazov80]

I google searched, and apparently it appears a few times in the lower right hand corner of the screen in the last 10-15 minutes.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Yeah, that's what I mean when I'm saying that the film didn't dwell on it. And I agree with your last point.

As for prequel references, there was one, when they referred to the dark side residing with the Sith, and then with the Empire, and now with the New World Order or whatever they're called. I could be mistaken, but I don't recall "Sith" being used at all in the original films. I commented to my wife as we left that there were no other prequel references, and that's. . .a good thing.

They mentioned bringing back a clone army

 

[Khev]

I kind of liked how Han's recklessness with light speed was such a contrast to his "precise calculations" younger, more survivalist self. Apparently he finally got to the point where he was all "**** it, I go to lightspeed when I want, in hangars, creatures on the cockpit, into atmosphere, I got this."

It also got me wondering if there was a subtext that (big spoiler):

Spoiler:

Han had just kind of "been there/done" as an adventurer, lost something that he had with Leia, lost his son, and that when he finally found the Falcon again he didn't really have anything else to really live for. I almost feel like Chewie might have been aware of that and so didn't grieve quite as much as you might expect seeing his friend die. He howled in sadness but also knew that Han's number was going to be up soon one way or another.

I feel like part of the reason he tried to recruit Rey was so that he could see that the Falcon would be in good hands and that Chewie would have a good partner "He really likes you," (or whatever he said) and then he'd be free to check out.

I don't know, I just found it interesting the way it all played out.

I also liked the "come at me bro" Stormtrooper who wasn't intimidated by Finn's lightsaber.

 

[dao2]

So saw TFA tonight... I thought it was good, not great, not amazing but good. I am probably going to see it again but I do that with most movies I like so v0v ;p

Spoiler:

So here are my VERY SPOILERISH thoughts. Seriously legit spoilers here, DO NOT read if you haven't seen it yet. Close the spoiler thingy now Also it's going to be mostly negative, but really I liked it and I recommend seeing it, but I guess I can't explain the positives as clearly as the negatives in my mind. I do not think it is better than the OT by a long shot (I did not grow up on the OT either, being 28 that I am now). It was miles better then the prequels though.

Minor: Ship handling was a little crazy, they seemed to actually drift sometimes. I know it's in the atmosphere as opposed to inspace but really it just seemed out of place. Minor for me though, still looked pretty damn cool. Other then Poe's crazy rape everybody run when he killed like every tie fighter that you could see on the screen. That was nuts, I know they were trying to establish that he's crazy good but seriously that was just unbelievable. And the MF flying like that after apparently years of not flying and before that some abuse. It's a damn freighter, even non-freighters that size can't fly that good!

Semi-Minor: The sillyness. It was a little too silly, it has some genuine humor moments and while that's a bit out of place in what I think of Star Wars it was still alright. But overall it seemed kind of light hearted, and it feels like the characters are a little too upbeat when they are just in and out of what would be some hard situations.

Semi-Minor: Rey's duel with Kylo Ren. First off I want to say thank ****ing god we didn't get the jumping and twirling crazy over the top acrobatics display that was saber fights in the prequels. I feel like it could have been better, but overall massive improvement and better than the OT just stiff sort of "broadsword fencing" feel. But this ****ing duel. Kylo was beating the **** out of Rey till he just made her suddenly open a tap to a bunch of force power.

Glossing over the cheesiness of that, up to that point she was getting her ass handed to her in the saber duel. But after she's a ****ing saber master apparently. I understand that the force would give her powers of insight and being able to see attacks coming and also increase her reaction speed already. And I know she was also pretty decent with the staff too, but really it's two completely different fighting styles. It was just really jarring going from really inexperienced saber fighter to grand****ingmaster level saber handling. To quote the movie "That's not how the force works". I felt like if she instead used force powers like a force push, or smacking stuff into him etc it would have better shown off her "instant" force power-up.

Semi-Minor: The god damn oscillator. Seriously it's been twice before that ****s blown up on some sort of super weapon like that. And sure at least they didn't leave a god damn hole in this time but it felt woefully undefended. Sure they were losing, but something that size and what is an critical part of what seems to be a premier military base for the new order should have run a train over that tiny fighter wing. The defenses seem light, especially the anti-fighter defenses. You can say "oh but it's got a shield they didn't put much to it". NO, ****ing nobody designs **** that way.

You might see in videogames where a battleship is weak to smaller ships cause it only has larger weapons but that's ********. Even now something like that would have been goddamn bristling with weapons to handle everything from ground troops and on up and in massive numbers. THEY BUILT A ****ING PLANET BEAM FOR GOD SAKES PUT A FEW MORE MISSILE LAUNCHERS IN THERE. Also why the **** is there no flak? Everything flies so close it seems like it would be a goddamn massacre for fighters. Seriously anti-fighter defenses that we have nowadays, or even in WW2 would have done a better job against the fighters in the movie.

Semi-Minor: Captain Phasma taking down the shield. ****ING WHY. Seriously, I completely expected her to just lock it or alert the base or something. Why the hell did she turn them off. And why would anyone ever not assume that after they did what was asked they'd be likely killed anyways. ****ing real :|

Major: Not explaining anything. Seriously they reference so much **** that's not explained at all. I understand you can't explain everything because then it will just lead to more things that need to be explained then you're on the explain-train with no stops. But some stuff needs to be explained instead of just told and believed. For example it references that Kylo did some **** and probably killed all of Luke's other padawans. When Rey touched the saber and had the flashback it would have been the perfect moment to show some of this, I was shocked it didn't. And maybe he could taken a bit of damage or turned a little more sithy so he wasn't such an Andy Sandberg/Napolean Dynamite looking mother****er.

Same with Finn. He says he had to leave cause he's seen/done some bad ****. But what appears to actually be his turning point is when his fellow stormie dies. Who is this person? Does he care about this person? I imagine attachments would be frowned upon in the trooper lifestyle that's alluded too. Did he really not care about the person and was just sick of doing messed up ****? Maybe show a TINY bit of the relationship between Finn and this fallen trooper that made him finally decide to desert.

A lot of the not explaining **** is because of the next problem I had.

Tragic: The pacing. This ****ing pacing. It's crazy quick. It's not just the fighting that's frantic it's the whole damn movie. So much stuff happened way too quickly. I was just at a loss how quickly stuff got thrown in. And I think nothing shows this more than the end. So they're looking for this ****ing map, which apparently isn't just a dot but also the trail of Luke Sky walker. Apparently though it was a dot to like his exact location, and the editing made it seem like the entire flight time from entering light speed to exiting was less than a minute. It took hours to get to Alderaan before but they just got there essentially instantly. Was he like right next door the entire time?

Really I thought the movie should have fleshed out the back explanations a little more. I'm not asking to explain why Han lost the falcon, that can be left up to the imagination considering they showed he went back to his old ways. But a little bit about the first order. Did the rebels really do that ****** a job? Cause this isn't that far after the OT, but apparently the Imperials are stronger then ever and apparently everyone is already afraid of them too so it's not like they were hiding :| And why are they so afraid of the Republic Fleet? They should have shown it, and why is it all on the home planets? Something as large as the republic might have the bulk stationed home but it would have ships deployed everywhere really.

And their planet beam really was very sudden. Honestly I thought the setup it had was all great. What I would have preferred is if the movie actually ended with the resistance (or really the republic fleet) trying to take on Starkiller base but failing, hence then leading to the resistance. If ****'s so dire they need a resistance Han wouldn't have just been smuggling, and Luke probably wouldn't have left everyone high and dry no matter what happened. Give the damn bad guys a bone and have them come out on top in the TFA and setup the next movie.

It could have started with finding out about the First Order which managed to stay hidden and building up their forces. Then underestimating them attacking Starkiller base and failing. Which would had led up to a second movie about scrapping together any remnants of the republic fleet and making the resistance, and Rey's journey to find Luke Skywalker and I guess bring balance back to the force. At the rate it's going I expect Rey and Luke to be back and her well into her training and Kylo undergone whatever transformation he's going to go through within like the first 20 minutes of the next movie :|

I had other issues too but I think that's enough, and like I said I still enjoyed it. But it was also a constant barrage of disappointment in what could have been while I was watching it ;p I guess that's a bit depressing but v0v!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Wait a minute, Finn said to Yoda 2.0 that he had seen and done some really bad things....but then he tells Rey that what happened to him in the begging of the film was his very first mission and that he couldn't kill anyone....what? Then WTF did he do that was so bad?

 

[DiFabio]

Yeah, that's what I mean when I'm saying that the film didn't dwell on it. And I agree with your last point.

As for prequel references, there was one, when they referred to the dark side residing with the Sith, and then with the Empire, and now with the New World Order or whatever they're called. I could be mistaken, but I don't recall "Sith" being used at all in the original films. I commented to my wife as we left that there were no other prequel references, and that's. . .a good thing.

Ren and Hux also debate about clone troopers. About how much better programmed and expendable clones would be like the old days as opposed to the brainwashed troops they have now. Makes sense to go back to clones considering the likes of Finn and stuff.

I'm pretty sure I heard a few prequel music cues in the soundtrack as well. I'll have to see it again.