Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Khev......do you hate TLJ like the rest of us do yet?

It's OK man. It's a bad movie, and I know you want to like it cause it's SW....but lying to yourself is unhealthy.

When you're ready to admit how much you hate it, we'll all be here for you.

I don't hate TLJ but I do kind of agree with everybody at this point, lol. So when someone says "this part was so awesome!" I'm all "I know right!" and then two seconds later someone else says "this part was beyond stupid!" and I say "I know right!" to that one too, lol.

I do think that by copying so much of the OT that the ST is struggling to justify its own existence outside of the initial fun of experiencing a new theatrical SW event. Now that I've seen TLJ a bunch of times I do find myself listening to Rey tell Kylo "I know there's good in you, you'll turn" and thinking "since she's just copying Luke's dialogue from ROTJ and the ensuing duel and Crait battle is going to be less cool than the ROTJ throne room duel and space battle then shouldn't I just be watching...ROTJ?"

That's the danger of repeating so many elements of the previous films verbatim. If you don't provide much that is new then the stuff you copy better be *superior* to the originals otherwise what's the point. Yes George copied ANH's DS attack in ROTJ, but he also topped it spectacularly. The ST hasn't done that yet.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

At least Rogue One helped lend some plausibility to that by making it a deliberate act of design sabotage.

Yep , explained just 40 years later........

I bet in 40 years they will come up with a real good explanation for why they did everything in ST.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yes George copied ANH's DS attack in ROTJ, but he also topped it spectacularly. The ST hasn't done that yet.

Rogue One has.


So after all that time with you and Jye were dabbling with the Dark Side and protecting TLJ, now... now you say you don't really like it? So many pages wasted, so many people banned.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Rogue One has.


So after all that time with you and Jye were dabbling with the Dark Side and protecting TLJ, now... now you say you don't really like it? So many pages wasted, so many people banned.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

At least Rogue One helped lend some plausibility to that by making it a deliberate act of design sabotage.

Doesn't it actually make it worse to have the small exhaust port be deliberate? To make the one vulnerable spot be so small that the best fighter pilots in the Rebellion couldn't hit it? And that it took someone (who had to be recruited nearly that very same day) to *use the Force* in order to land the shot? And to deliberately design the exhaust point "target" at the end of a trench that would be littered with anti-aircraft canons?

I do think that by copying so much of the OT that the ST is struggling to justify its own existence outside of the initial fun of experiencing a new theatrical SW event. Now that I've seen TLJ a bunch of times I do find myself listening to Rey tell Kylo "I know there's good in you, you'll turn" and thinking "since she's just copying Luke's dialogue from ROTJ and the ensuing duel and Crait battle is going to be less cool than the ROTJ throne room duel and space battle then shouldn't I just be watching...ROTJ?"

You should watch both whenever you get the chance. They're Star Wars; you're supposed to enjoy them for the fun of it. But if you're going to be bothered enough by plot contrivances to focus on what's "stupid" about them, you're going to run into just as many in ROTJ as you will in TLJ. So, what's the point?

In fact, if you wanted to, you could pick apart *every* SW movie and their abundant plot contrivances to point out how "stupid" many of the plot-moving elements and character strategies are. The difference is that it isn't trendy or "cool" to make YouTube videos that take plot contrivances and twist them in a way to use the blanket of "bad writing/directing" over any SW film that isn't TLJ.

And therein lies the problem for anyone who wants to defend TLJ. That video you posted spends half the time talking about the absurdity of "faster" ships in space, and the other half on "dumb" military tactics and strategic planning. If I were to pick apart ESB with the same mindset, I could point out nearly as many examples of the same ****. But then I'd be accused of dumping on the OT just to prop up TLJ (even though I love the OT to death, and would only be doing it to point out a double standard).

By every critical measuring stick, the OT will always be many miles better than the ST. Many! If you need the ST to do things better than ANH and ESB too, you should just stop watching it now. I just saved you the money of your movie ticket to Episode IX. You're welcome.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Those dopes got themselves banned, I had nothing to do with it (wasn't even a mod when TLJ came out.) I even miss SNIKT, I found him highly entertaining and even respected his opinion but alas he just couldn't refrain from trying to set up real world fisticuffs outside of this forum and wore out his welcome with the powers that be.

By every critical measuring stick, the OT will always be many miles better than the ST. Many! If you need the ST to do things better than ANH and ESB too, you should just stop watching it now. I just saved you the money of your movie ticket to Episode IX. You're welcome.

As I said they only need to do "better" (or at the very least equal) if they're copying the OT verbatim. If they actually try something new (ie Solo's train heist, Kessel breakout, etc.) then the pressure isn't so heated to justify they're own existence.

Besides why should I skip Episode IX when RO gave us another space battle with X-Wings, Star Destroyers, a Mon Calamari in charge, etc., and *did* do better? It can be done.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

ANH - the desert one

ESB - the snow one

ROTJ - the forest one

TLJ - the divisive one

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

ajp haven't you agreed many times over that TLJ is a huge mixed bag? I love ROTJ but when people rip on the ewoks or the cheap ass matte paintings, Boba's death, terrible acting (usually when someone is talking to Harrison Ford, lol) I don't think that they're just blindly hating the movie.

I think that TLJ is in that same boat. But a little moreso since no one can accuse ROTJ of not delivering in the action department.

I like the visuals of the Crait battle (mostly because of the red plumes) but agree that it's otherwise subpar with the way that the Resistance really accomplishes nothing (except for crashing into their own speeders and needlessly sacrificing countless men) while otherwise blatantly ripping off Hoth.

But I enjoy the throne room battle and love Kylo vs. Luke, Holdo's kamikaze, and pretty much everything on Ach-To.

 

[xipotec]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I don't hate TLJ but I do kind of agree with everybody at this point, lol. So when someone says "this part was so awesome!" I'm all "I know right!" and then two seconds later someone else says "this part was beyond stupid!" and I say "I know right!" to that one too, lol.

I do think that by copying so much of the OT that the ST is struggling to justify its own existence outside of the initial fun of experiencing a new theatrical SW event. Now that I've seen TLJ a bunch of times I do find myself listening to Rey tell Kylo "I know there's good in you, you'll turn" and thinking "since she's just copying Luke's dialogue from ROTJ and the ensuing duel and Crait battle is going to be less cool than the ROTJ throne room duel and space battle then shouldn't I just be watching...ROTJ?"

That's the danger of repeating so many elements of the previous films verbatim. If you don't provide much that is new then the stuff you copy better be *superior* to the originals otherwise what's the point. Yes George copied ANH's DS attack in ROTJ, but he also topped it spectacularly. The ST hasn't done that yet.

Don’t forget the “shield generator” space battles from TPM AND RO.......



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Doesn't it actually make it worse to have the small exhaust port be deliberate? To make the one vulnerable spot be so small that the best fighter pilots in the Rebellion couldn't hit it? And that it took someone (who had to be recruited nearly that very same day) to *use the Force* in order to land the shot?

Sshhhh.

Khev, help meeeeee

And to deliberately design the exhaust point "target" at the end of a trench that would be littered with anti-aircraft canons?

And not one ship shot down by those cannons. Death Star Gunners have the same standard of marksmanship as Stormtroopers.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

@ a-dev

 

[ajp4mgs]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

ajp haven't you agreed many times over that TLJ is a huge mixed bag? I love ROTJ but when people rip on the ewoks or the cheap ass matte paintings, Boba's death, terrible acting (usually when someone is talking to Harrison Ford, lol) I don't think that they're just blindly hating the movie.

I think that TLJ is in that same boat. But a little moreso since no one can accuse ROTJ of not delivering in the action department.

I like the visuals of the Crait battle (mostly because of the red plumes) but agree that it's otherwise subpar with the way that the Resistance really accomplishes nothing (except for crashing into their own speeders and needlessly sacrificing countless men) while otherwise blatantly ripping off Hoth.

But I enjoy the throne room battle and love Kylo vs. Luke, Holdo's kamikaze, and pretty much everything on Ach-To.

Yes, TLJ is a mixed bag. So was ROTJ; and I enjoyed them both almost equally. I'm not one of those who treats ROTJ as the red-headed stepchild of the OT. I recognize its flaws, and every way that it was inferior to its two predecessors. But I also recognize the things it had that were just as good. I love ROTJ. I always will. And TLJ was nearly as enjoyable for me as an adult as ROTJ was for me as a kid. I appreciate that.

It's not that I can't recognize things that I wish were better. But that goes for every movie in this genre. I wouldn't be able to enjoy *any* superhero or sci-fi/fantasy movie if I kept being bothered by flawed plot premise, character logic, logic in general, tactical strategy, physics, chemistry, or whatever else. For me, watching these movies is different than watching The Godfather. Different mindset altogether. I want the dialogue and acting to keep me from feeling like it's aimed at 9-year-olds, and then I want it to surprise me enough to keep me interested.

There are things I thought were so bad in TLJ that I stop to wonder wtf Rian Johnson was thinking. But that's not all that rare for me as an experience watching these movies. The sum total is what I'm interested in, and TLJ delivered for me more than any SW movie since ROTJ. RO had less flaws, and superior in many technical ways, but I was bored in several spots. It took me two or three viewings to even remember the names "Cassian" and "Krennic." But these types of things are so subjective in nature that it's actually pointless to discuss them. Yet we do it anyway.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Sshhhh.

Khev, help meeeeee

I don't think that Galen Erso ever pictured that the DS reactor could be destroyed from *outside* that battle station. That was all the genius of the Rebel Alliance and Luke's connection to the Force. Otherwise I would have expected Erso's hologram to have said "Tell the Rebellion that I've set a trap, simply shoot a proton torpedo down the exhaust port and you'll destroy the station" and they could have just skipped going to Scarif altogether.

I think that Erso set the trap in the reactor and then assumed it would have to be detonated from within via explosives. My guess is that he was planning on doing that himself as a suicide mission before being taken off the project and reassigned to Eadu. At that point he could only desperately try and get the word out to anyone who would listen that the trap existed and hope that they could find a schematic of the base itself that would allow them to infiltrate and sabotage.

 

[Prime Clone]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Doesn't it actually make it worse to have the small exhaust port be deliberate? To make the one vulnerable spot be so small that the best fighter pilots in the Rebellion couldn't hit it? And that it took someone (who had to be recruited nearly that very same day) to *use the Force* in order to land the shot? And to deliberately design the exhaust point "target" at the end of a trench that would be littered with anti-aircraft canons?

My sediments exactly.

And on the flipside, having the vulnerability be deliberate also detracts from Luke's achievement in exploiting it.

 

[spindrift]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Having enjoyed TLJ for what it is I can't wait for this one....JJ will deliver in his own way

That being said ROTJ was so much more inferior than the two before it it's hard to believe Lucas was involved...it just looks like it was made by people who really didn't "get" or like SW that intensely

 

[rushmore223]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Rogue One has.


So after all that time with you and Jye were dabbling with the Dark Side and protecting TLJ, now... now you say you don't really like it? So many pages wasted, so many people banned. [emoji38]

Don't worry, I still like it. [emoji38]



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[jal76]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

My sediments exactly.

And on the flipside, having the vulnerability be deliberate also detracts from Luke's achievement in exploiting it.

I would agree with it detracting from Luke if he had somehow discovered the vulnerability but either way they were all told about it in the briefing.

 

[Prime Clone]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I would agree with it detracting from Luke if he had somehow discovered the vulnerability but either way they were all told about it in the briefing.

What I meant was, a vulnerability that's deliberately engineered is most likely easier to exploit than one that's accidental.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I would agree with it detracting from Luke if he had somehow discovered the vulnerability but either way they were all told about it in the briefing.

Yep, a one in a million shot is still a one in a million shot, and RO doesn't change the fact that the Rebels still had to figure out on their own that the quickest way to the reactor was via a torpedo down the exhaust port.

 

[abake]

Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Kinda like a small 2 meter exhaust port that blows up an entire station.....

Cant pick and choose lazy writing...


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

Beg to differ.

That is not lazy writing at all.

The whole point of the tiny exhaust port being the Death Star's vulnerable spot is to showcase the arrogance of the Empire and the ingenuity and courage of the Rebellion, not to mention serving as a way to show the audience how powerful the Force is. Also, there's the whole subtext of one man's will against tyranny, trusting your instincts and not letting technology overwhelm you, etc.

That is good writing.