SILIMARILLION

[TD-0488]

Have you ever considered chacators from this book? It would be awesome to have a Morogoth, Fingolfin, Feanor, Finrod, Gothmog, Huan with Beren and other. Any chance?

 

[Wetanut]

Pardon me for poking my nose in, but they probably haven't. In fact NOBODY has. It's a matter of licensing. Silmarillion's rights for movies/collectibles have not been granted to anyone. This applies to all Tolkien books AFTER Hobbit and LOTR. The Tolkien estate (headed by JRR's son Christopher) is in control of these works and, unlikely to allow it -- at least not while Christopher T. is still alive anyway.

 

[TD-0488]

I apologize if I am behind here, but why would he not release the license for them? I am sure the Tolkien community would love them.

 

[Seretur]

(a) You can't get the rights to The Silmarillion.

(b) Seriously, you can't get the rights to The Silmarillion.

(c) And finally, those rights to The Silmarillion? You can't get them.*

But you can still read dozens of editions of The Silmarillion, and dozens of books about The Silmarillion. Which is astounding in and of itself, when you consider how possible it was that none of this material ever sees the light of day after Tolkien died.

And another thing: It's not enough to make a statue of a tall black knight and call it Morgoth. The current LOTR collectibles are what they are because very talented artists at Weta injected new life into Tolkien designs and visuals. This is why those film adaptations are such a mother lode of astounding collectibles. Barring a similar design effort in an impossible, hypothetical case where The Silmarillion becomes available (and it won't), what would be the worth of any of that stuff?

__________
*As the current Croatian translator of Tolkien's works, I've worked with Tolkien Enterprises for years now. I'm not saying any of this just for kicks.

 

[TD-0488]

Sorry Seretur, I was just asking. I did not know you "work for them". I was just wanting some understanding, not wanting to step on anyones toes. It would still be great to see the same effort put forth (I know, it will not happen) that was put forth on the LOTRs.

 

[Wetanut]

I don't think you stepped on anyone's toes. Believe me TD when I say that there TONS of us have been wishing for the same thing. Apparently, Chris Tolkien is very much against the "commercialization" of his father's works (other than thru publication). As revered and well-accepted of the LOTR films have been, he has been steadfast in not endorsing any of it. Wouldn't be surprised if he put it in his will that rights to ANY of the remaining Tolkien library would be forbidden. You see, even though most of the Silmarillion/Book of Lost Tales/History of Middle Earth/Children of Hurin/etc. were written by JRR, it was Christopher who compiled, edited, and got them published after his father died. So he's officially listed as the writer and owns all the rights. (am I right in this Seretur?)

 

[Alice Adrenochrome]

As a Tolkin fan, perhaps this is not very cool to say, but... somehow, I never could finish the SILMARILLION. I tried. Two times. And failed. When I started reading "The Silmarrillion", it always reminded me of .. the bible. Well, the genesis part of the bible really. How things evolved and so on... and after a few chapters, I gave up. Perhaps I make an other attempt sometime in the future.

 

[TD-0488]

Thanks for the explanation Wetanut. I did not know his feelings toward this.

You should try the Silmarillion again, it makes the LOTR a lot better. I agree it is a tough read, but well worth it. Maybe try the CDs. I listen to them all the time while driving.

 

[Alice Adrenochrome]

...
You should try the Silmarillion again, it makes the LOTR a lot better. I agree it is a tough read, but well worth it. Maybe try the CDs. I listen to them all the time while driving.

Thats a great idea! I have a look on Amazon later. I know that the Silmarillion is sort of an historical fundament for the LotR triology, but it's so dry... in the beginning at least.

 

[gideon]

Maybe we need a lawyer to answer this.... BUT .... Saul Zaentz bought the rights to LOTR. That is cover to cover. Part of that are the Appendicies which include material that was used in the movies like the Arwen-Aragorn story and other references that are not in the body of the book itself.

The first Appendix is A. Among the things mentioned are the following

- Feanor is shown to be the greatest of the Eldar making the Silmarils filling them with the radiance of the Two Trees
- Morgoth stealing the Silmarils
-Morgoth destroying the Two Trees by poisoning them
- Morgoth retreating to his great fortress of Thangorodrim with the Silmarils
- Feanor leading his people into exile
- War between the Eldar and Edain against Morgoth and his forces
- the defeat of the Eldar and Edain
- the union of Beren and Luthien and their lineage
-Beren and Luthien steal a Silmaril from the Iron Crown of Morgoth
-Luthien becomes mortal and gives birth to Dior
-the city of Gondolin with Turgon as its king
-the wedding of Earendil to Elwing
-the overthrow of Morgoth
-the ship of Earendil is set into the heavens

Its all right there. Now you probably do not have enough to make a movie from that list without using longer passages from the SIL, but you certainly have a name and could make a figure if you so desired. You have all the biggies there for the taking. Morgoth, Feanor, Beren & Luthien, Dior, Turgon, Earendil, Elwing............

I would buy those statues.

 

[carbo-fation]

Thats a great idea! I have a look on Amazon later. I know that the Silmarillion is sort of an historical fundament for the LotR triology, but it's so dry... in the beginning at least.

For me it's different. When I first started to read the Sil, I couldn't put it down. I think I've read it more than a dozen time already and I still find myself enjoying it everytime I read it. The Silmarillion is the reason that I become enarmoured with everything Tolkien. I enjoyed the LOTR but the books didn't captivate me as much as the Silm. Maybe I am just an oddball....

 

[carbo-fation]

@Gideon
You got forgot one of Tolkien's favorite characters....Turin Tumladen.

 

[fool_of_a_took!]

As a Tolkin fan, perhaps this is not very cool to say, but... somehow, I never could finish the SILMARILLION. I tried. Two times. And failed. When I started reading "The Silmarrillion", it always reminded me of .. the bible. Well, the genesis part of the bible really. How things evolved and so on... and after a few chapters, I gave up. Perhaps I make an other attempt sometime in the future.

I'm with you Alice!

I forced my way through the first 150-200 pages. I'd get home from work, and get into the ol' Gaffer's brew, and sit down for some relaxing and Middle-Earthin'. But damn, it was'nt the easy, relaxing read I was looking for at the time.

I will pick it up again no doubt, but I know this time I'll need to stay alert!!

 

[Jen]

I'm with you Alice!

I forced my way through the first 150-200 pages. I'd get home from work, and get into the ol' Gaffer's brew, and sit down for some relaxing and Middle-Earthin'. But damn, it was'nt the easy, relaxing read I was looking for at the time.

I will pick it up again no doubt, but I know this time I'll need to stay alert!!

You can count me as one of this group as well. I've tried reading this book dozens of times......but like Ailce said, the beginning reminded me of Genesis, which is also a tough read. One day I'll make it through!!

 

[lcummins]

As a Tolkin fan, perhaps this is not very cool to say, but... somehow, I never could finish the SILMARILLION. I tried. Two times. And failed. When I started reading "The Silmarrillion", it always reminded me of .. the bible. Well, the genesis part of the bible really. How things evolved and so on... and after a few chapters, I gave up. Perhaps I make an other attempt sometime in the future.

You can count me as one of this group as well. I've tried reading this book dozens of times......but like Ailce said, the beginning reminded me of Genesis, which is also a tough read. One day I'll make it through!!

I personally find it has more in common with Milton's Paradise Lost, which I enjoyed in school, so I also enjoyed the beginning of the Silmarillion. Definitely give it another try however, because the "style" and pacing do change in the book and much of it is more "readable" shall we say.

 

[Wetanut]

For those who've posted that they just couldn't get thru the Sil. I know exactly what you mean. I tried 4 times and was defeated. Then I realized something....the Sil is a collection of different stories (some even novellas) and I was trying to read it like a novel....from first page onward. So I tried a new approach. From the table of contents, I picked out a topic I was interested most in (and was relatively short) and read it. I kept skipping around the book, reading each section as totally divorced from each other. (First was "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age". I knew this would address the world/age I had already read about in LOTR so I was on familiar ground. Then I picked out "Valaquenta". Then went on to the "Akallabeth" -- which I really enjoyed (some very much reminescent of Atlantis lore). It wasn't until I had absorbed the shorter pieces, becoming more and more familiar and comfortable with the newer names/places, that I tackled the actual Quenta Silmarillian. It still took me a while to plow through it, but I DID get through it. I wound up reading the book this way for the next 2 readings...startng from "Rings of Power...", but successive readings have been the traditional way...page 1 onwards. And I still like the "Akallabeth" -- the fall of Numeanor -- best.

 

[CAhobbit]

I personally find it has more in common with Milton's Paradise Lost, which I enjoyed in school, so I also enjoyed the beginning of the Silmarillion. Definitely give it another try however, because the "style" and pacing do change in the book and much of it is more "readable" shall we say.

I second that those who haven't gotten into "The Silmarillion" to give it another try sometime. The beginning of the book is very much like Genesis but it jets off after awhile into different stories/history and it is a very enjoyable read. I actually found many parts of the book to be very much like Greek Myths (something I loved as a young child).

 

[lcummins]

Now that I think about it, I never really thought it was a difficult read. I read this the first time when it was first published; I was a freshman at Vanderbilt at the time. Of course, as I stated earlier, I also enjoyed Paradise Lost in High School, and it was considered the toughest book of the year and everyone dreaded it and would warn the underclass students about it!

I guess I was just so hungry for anything new from Tolkien at the time, that it didn't matter what it was. I do remember I got lost with all the names of people and places and would sometimes have to stop and re-read a passage to get everything straight.

 

[Captain Faramir]

The first time I read The Simarillion was when I was about 15, after having read LOTR a few times. It was one of the most moving, powerful stories I had ever read, and remains so to this day. While I consider LOTR to be the most complete and refined of Tolkien's works, I hold The Silmarillion to be his masterpiece, the most expressive and beautiful of all the works he crafted. In all my years of studying fictional writing and epic stories there are few that can compare to the scope and the depth of what Tolkien envisioned.

Aside from the monumentally gigantic universe which he created (in and of itself an inimitable marvel), part of what makes Tolkien so successful as a writer is his ability to create dozens of beautiful stories which are, as a whole, one complete and fluid work. But the real wonder of The Silmarillion is that it all comes from one mind, one person creating, in a very real sense, his own interpretation of all that is, reflecting in his world our own world, and imbuing their mythology with our own beliefs and understanding. There's that perpetual sense of something deeper than just Middle Earth, something that really does lie at the heart of our own lives in our own world. It's that profound, one might even say reverent, love for the world and its beauty that makes The Silmarillion such a glorious work.

However, because of that massive scale, I think it would be too great to turn into a movie. There's so much time; literally eons of time, ages unnumbered, and thousands of characters and stories. It's like trying to make a movie about the Bible--which part? What stories? All of it? Or just some? And lest we forget, some characters are constant. Cirdan and Celeborn are there nearly from the beginning, and Galadriel herself is an active participant in nearly all the great events of Middle Earth. I would leave the merchandising and collectibles to The Hobbit and LOTR, both of which lend themselves very easily to that kind of market. The Silmarillion is a bit too much for that, and it's a bit too esoteric to present itself to a whole franchise of collectibles unless they did short parts. The Children of Hurin alone would be a massive media undertaking, The Silmarillion would just be way too much.

 

[Sachiel]

I read it cover to cover. Didn't have a problem. Really got into it. Probably because it was a bunch of smaller stories strung together. When I started off I did go a little slow.