Beware the Recaster(s)

[PopCultKid]

I just want to help paint the picture for those wo have never been there. Just like zebraten & the good Doctor said, Q has a booth in Frank & Son's.

The place is essentially a big warehouse that has all of these booths set up like you'd see in the vender section of NY/SD CC, or similar to any other comic convention. F&S is basically an indoor flee market for collectibles; sports memorabilia, comics, all figures you can think of from mini mates, Lego, Star Wars, HT, SS, 3A, etc, etc and a whole section for card games. They are open all year round and the vendors in there pay rent. Q has a booth in there so basically he has a physical store aside from his eBay thing.

Famcon was an event held at F&S that was only on he 25th & 26th. The Famcon section was walled off with 12' (appox.) black cloth partition walls so it was basically in its own "room".


So at the end of the day this was a huge kick in Q's pants. This was the first event that was organized and attended by people from a forum that he just got the boot from. It was populated by people who now know what his deal is thru this board. People came from out of state (some of us cross country) and saw him, his booth, his case of stolen goods. If he was in good standings with the community he should've been part of this event but instead was black listed and couldn't even step foot in Fancom. I'm sure he was very uneasy about it and that probably would explain his mannerisms and body language when I was asking about Beto's stuff because that was a tell tale sign that I was on the board; even more so when I came back with Mags because he's someone Q knows by face and that was confirmation that there were a lot of dudes from the freaks floating around and he was exposed... and on the sh/tlist.

I'm sure he's reading this right now, laughing. Son of a *****.

Would've met him in the parking lot. Still would have been plenty of time for that!

It wouldn't be my first rodeo

 

[Ironman1188]

Recasting doesn't really require any talent. Sculpting and refining an original HS from scratch - on the other hand - takes and incredible amount of time and skill and patience. Not to mention all the reference research involved.

So to try to justify supporting recasts by arguing that original pieces are too expensive - or released in too few numbers; is a little insulting in my opinion. Both to the artists producing the heads - and to the hobby.

The cost of an original piece reflects the amount of effort and talent going into producing that piece. You either agree that the end result is worth what the artist is asking for it (and you buy); or you don't think it is worth it and you pass.

No one, that I read, said that the sculptor's work wasn't worth paying for. And, as I said, I'm not trying to justify what recasters do, but limiting the run of a sculpt does give the recaster an opening for sales created by that very same original sculptor created void. No insult intended, just fact. As you just said "You either agree that the end result is worth what the artist is asking for it (and you buy); or you don't think it is worth it and you pass" but what if you think the price is fair but by the time you find the thread the 20 heads he's limited it to are sold?

Most group commissions run about $50-$75 a head. If that's "wildly impractical and significantly more expensive" then perhaps you need to reconsider your fiscal priorities.

No one said that cost was impractical, what was thought impractical was the commissioning of a sculpt that already exists. For example, say you sculpted a wonderful Rick Grimes, the best seen to date, but only sold 20-25 of them. If I liked that sculpt but missed out on the list, what you're implying is that I should commission you to sculpt it again? Ludicrous.

The whole situation isn't perfect and there are the other arguments like your point about the artists themselves being the thieves (of the the actors and property owners) and recasters having a place because the original heads aren't infinitely available.

But why can't the sculpts stay available? What greater nod of appreciation to a sculptor than folks continually wanting their work. I've said it many time, I can't sculpt or cast, but I do know this. If I could sculpt and I made a kick *** sculpt that folks seemed to want and really enjoy and like, it would be available. If someone contacted me and said "Hey! I'm new to the forum and I just saw that you made a Patrick Magoohan head from The Prisoner, can I still get one?" annd it was three years later, YES he/she would still get one. I wouldn't tell them, "Well, yes but you'll have to commission me to sculpt it again".

 

[PopCultKid]

He didn't have a booth at the event, correct? He has a booth at Frank and Sons and not at the Expo, where famCon was being held. Although they are attached, Chris has no say who rents a booth at frank and sons, as there are literally hundreds of booths there filled with (mostly) non 1:6 related toys.

I saw you at the dinner but we never got a chance to talk. I dig your work . Hopefully I'll see you there next year

 

[thenammagazine]

No one said that cost was impractical, what was thought impractical was the commissioning of a sculpt that already exists. For example, say you sculpted a wonderful Rick Grimes, the best seen to date, but only sold 20-25 of them. If I liked that sculpt but missed out on the list, what you're implying is that I should commission you to sculpt it again? Ludicrous.

No, what's ludicrous is you thinking you're entitled to it and using that to justify supporting a recaster.

 

[PopCultKid]

But why can't the sculpts stay available? What greater nod of appreciation to a sculptor than folks continually wanting their work. I've said it many time, I can't sculpt or cast, but I do know this. If I could sculpt and I made a kick *** sculpt that folks seemed to want and really enjoy and like, it would be available. If someone contacted me and said "Hey! I'm new to the forum and I just saw that you made a Patrick Magoohan head from The Prisoner, can I still get one?" annd it was three years later, YES he/she would still get one. I wouldn't tell them, "Well, yes but you'll have to commission me to sculpt it again".

You do make a great point, I'm not saying that you're not. I'm really not sure why these sculpt's are on tap and constantly available. I'm sure there are things involved like not wanting to overstock and moulds going bad and whatnot. IDK all the logistics.

Some artist try to limit their sculpts to combat recasting and others offer more to fight recasting. It does seem that people who have a steady stream of casts (like Snyderman) get recasted less... because you could always just buy an original. Even Rainman has been doing 2-3 "restocks" of the majority of his whole catalogue, painted and unpainted. It seems that even tough the sculpts aren't exactly on tap, people will hold out for the genuine article knowing that it will become available again.

That said I believe RM will be reissuing again soon for all those who are interested. Keep a look out:

https://sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111319&page=81

 

[zebraten]

I saw you at the dinner but we never got a chance to talk. I dig your work . Hopefully I'll see you there next year

Thanks, bro. If they will have me, I will definitely be there.

 

[annihilate22]

Because I like being on this forum.........and I'm not looking for an excuse for a mod to boot me off.

What? A mod will boot you out if you tell us who scammed you ? I bet all of us would love to see that happen. (And no I'm not instigating you to tell us about it, that's totally upto you; but fear of losing your place here for such an incident is really not happening)

I (and I guess a ton of other boardies) know of a mod and a well known member warring over an issue which was debatable from each one's perspective. I didn't see anyone getting banned.

 

[ShadowX81]

No, what's ludicrous is you thinking you're entitled to it and using that to justify supporting a recaster.

No, whats ludicrous is you telling people what they should do with thier time and money and then judging them for it.

Im not going to spend twice the amount of money and signifigantly more time on getting a sculpt with a much lower quality.

 

[thenammagazine]

What? A mod will boot you out if you tell us who scammed you ? I bet all of us would love to see that happen.

No, from what I understand, he says it's a mod who scammed him. So the situation's pretty delicate if that's the case.

 

[Snadinator]

I wonder what the hell SSC will do when 3D printers reach critical mass among consumers. People could put up specs for free and all you would need are the materials and pop... you got your statue. You could then make a mold and make it using any material you want. Granted you'll need a painter but... times will change.

 

[SwedishHeat]

I wonder what the hell SSC will do when 3D printers reach critical mass among consumers. People could put up specs for free and all you would need are the materials and pop... you got your statue. You could then make a mold and make it using any material you want. Granted you'll need a painter but... times will change.

Yeah, I wonder what will happen to movie studios when video cameras and special effects software hit critical mass??

Why pay to go see a Star Wars movie on the screen, when you can just make the movie yourself??

 

[pixletwin]

No, whats ludicrous is you telling people what they should do with thier time and money and then judging them for it.

Im not going to spend twice the amount of money and signifigantly more time on getting a sculpt with a much lower quality.

Why u deserve?

 

[thenammagazine]

Yeah, I wonder what will happen to movie studios when video cameras and special effects software hit critical mass??

Why pay to go see a Star Wars movie on the screen, when you can just make the movie yourself??

Having seen many a fan film, I think Star Wars is safe.

Though, there's also the flip side where many OT elitists embraced the modified OT (I can never remember the name) and bought the illegal versions over the official releases.

 

[EVILFACE]

Having seen many a fan film, I think Star Wars is safe.

And the people that make that junk are the same ones that say the "prequels suck"

 

[karamazov80]

Wow, I never thought I would be agreeing with Nam on these issues. But I pretty much agree with everything he's said here. What happened to the "a thief is a thief is a thief" argument?

Yeah, if you miss out on an original, then that's your bad. What entitles you to get something just because you procrastinated or got into the game late? Nothing. I think a guy like Rocco is great for the collecting community because he's prolific, very good, and produces alternative, new interpretations of characters folks missed out on before (Dude) or haven't been done justice in the eyes of some (Ghostbusters, Ash). That's the way to get things done. Find someone else to do a new version, try to convince the original artist to produce more, or buy an original on the secondary market. That's pretty cut and dry. Buying a recast is never an acceptable solution in my book. But everyone makes their own decisions.

 

[ShadowX81]

Why u deserve?

I think a better question is, why don't I (or someone that would actually buy a recast) deserve to get one?

Deserve has nothing to do with it. Theres a demand, so someone will provide a supply. No one is going to ignore that supply just to appease Nam's self-riteious moral code.

 

[PopCultKid]

Thanks, bro. If they will have me, I will definitely be there.

I'm pretty positive they will have you . See you next year brother

Does anyone have a link to all this Q/Trevor drama? I'd like to take a glance. Wondering when Q started doing recasts. I remember buying my HT Godfather from him 2 years or so ago when I first got into 1/6.

They deleted the thread and I believe cleaned up any lingering posts

Wow, I never thought I would be agreeing with Nam on these issues. But I pretty much agree with everything he's said here. What happened to the "a thief is a thief is a thief" argument?

Yeah, if you miss out on an original, then that's your bad. What entitles you to get something just because you procrastinated or got into the game late? Nothing. I think a guy like Rocco is great for the collecting community because he's prolific, very good, and produces alternative, new interpretations of characters folks missed out on before (Dude) or haven't been done justice in the eyes of some (Ghostbusters, Ash). That's the way to get things done. Find someone else to do a new version, try to convince the original artist to produce more, or buy an original on the secondary market. That's pretty cut and dry. Buying a recast is never an acceptable solution in my book. But everyone makes their own decisions.

to all of that. Especially a thief is a thief is a dirt bag thief.

 

[thenammagazine]

I think a better question is, why don't I (or someone that would actually buy a recast) deserve to get one?

Deserve has nothing to do with it. Theres a demand, so someone will provide a supply. No one is going to ignore that supply just to appease Nam's self-riteious moral code.

So basically, you're saying that I of all people have morals, whereas you have none.

 

[peterparkernypd]

I used to have a very different opinion about the recasts and even got to go into some discussions here using the same old argument of "the thief who robs a thief".

However, after starting to attend the forum and especially after I found the Custom Section, I start to respect the work of people like Denny Kim, Rocco and Zsculptor, and finally understand that there is a BIG difference between selling a unlicensed figure to a collector and steal the work of others to try to profit, despite not having the talent or the hard work necessary to get it by it own.

I was able to buy complete figures of Se7en from Denny and I´m current waiting for his Leathal Wheapon work of art.

Also got some Bruce Willis headsculpt from Zsculptor (painted by Silver Surfer) and I think they did a really fantastic job! I don´t want to see guys like that being stoled by others and then desistimulated to produce some real good figures.

So today I don´t care if I couldn´t buy the HT Loki HT or Agent Coulson, but I definitely wouldn´t buy a recast of these headsculpts ...

Also, sorry if my english is not so good, as is not my primary language.

 

[Wulf]

Personally I don't feel I need to justify being entitled to a recast, anymore than I feel I need to justify buying an illegal product by a sculptor. I act out of my own self interest, so does the artist who makes money on an illegal product. If that sculptor isn't making the product anymore, why should he/she even bother about recasts?