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[filip629]

= Capitalism

So much shorter and to the point than my ramblings.

 

[sarakawa]

They've done similar textures in polystone, you're getting more paranoid as each release comes up

I blame SSC...

 

[krzykoopa]

Probably by the same people who think competition is good in this industry and will only bring prices down/quality up. Not that 'some' competition is a bad thing necessarily, but we are still talking about works of art, that even at mass produced scale, are hand painted, sewn etc. There have been numerous reports of XM paying better wages/attracting the better factory talent, even when using the same factories. This isn't all about them being nearbye to QC (although that helps). But when SS was the big fish with hardly any worries about anyone else, you could take their rate or not get the business. Now? SS got caught flat footed IMO, and has had to continually adjust prices up to try and level the field, which (again IMO) is why we are seeing price hike on top of price hike.

Now, this does bring up a point that has been discussed before. Accounting for shipping costs etc, at what point does it make sense to bring some of that manufacturing back to the U.S. or even Europe? I have to think we are approaching the levels that you would at least be looking into that if you were SS.

I should of just copy pasted what you guys are saying here in the Spiderman PF thread LOL

 

[laudel7]

Im getting sick of all this xm and economics talk

 

[dan350zr]

Probably by the same people who think competition is good in this industry and will only bring prices down/quality up. Not that 'some' competition is a bad thing necessarily, but we are still talking about works of art, that even at mass produced scale, are hand painted, sewn etc. There have been numerous reports of XM paying better wages/attracting the better factory talent, even when using the same factories. This isn't all about them being nearbye to QC (although that helps). But when SS was the big fish with hardly any worries about anyone else, you could take their rate or not get the business. Now? SS got caught flat footed IMO, and has had to continually adjust prices up to try and level the field, which (again IMO) is why we are seeing price hike on top of price hike.

Now, this does bring up a point that has been discussed before. Accounting for shipping costs etc, at what point does it make sense to bring some of that manufacturing back to the U.S. or even Europe? I have to think we are approaching the levels that you would at least be looking into that if you were SS.

I disagree, SS prices kept going up way before XM came into the picture, I remember PF's in the low $300's and then climbing to $400 before XM came into the picture. You can look at pieces like Rogue and Original Poison Ivy that were done way before XM came along and they had pretty bad paint applications with lots of googly eye issues. Low Quality + Raising Prices has nothing to do with XM. Plus XM only uses one factory for all their stuff... Where SS is spread out across several factories.

My opinion, SS is spread out to thin, there selling statues for other companies plus trying to make their own statues and 1:6 Action Figures, Posters, etc.. Their high edition sizes make it impossible to QC check all of it before it goes out to customers. Plus, IMO the company is ran by bean counters who try to cut as many corners as possible to improve profits at the cost of QC.

 

[a2themonster]

Why does SS need to raise prices? I think what XM is proving is that people are willing to pay more for quality. The reason XM is even in business is bcz SS effed up by not giving people what they want, and not doing it with quality every time. They had the marvel license WAY before XM ever existed..they could have made EVERY character/statue that XM is making right now. If they pumped out all those characters and did it with quality, do you think people would fork over an extra 2-300 above SS price to obtain the same guy? Not nearly as many people would. But SS sat on the license and nothing. They released crappy painted statues with simple 'X' base designs (exception gambit; same **** base though). WHERE IS THE SS MAGNETO?? Phoenix? Brown wolverine? Cable? They slacked, plain and simple. XM has the same license as SS. Why can't they (SS), with their capital, reputation, etc. produce better stuff (marvel) than XM? Just go head to head with them, undercut their ES, people would save on shipping, and voila? Its really not hard to plan out… The truth is they don't care about making the best statues, or best collectibles. They're not in the collectible business. Thats fine, its their choice, but when I'm talking about "collectibles", I know where I'll go and I'm glad I have my options.

 

[Josh-A-Tron]

Josh, you know you're my boy, and Tbolt, I respect the hell out of you but do you guys really believe that XM is responsible for the ridiculous price increases we are seeing from SSC? Peeps have been complaining about SSC raising prices since I've been a member here. That's long before XM was around. SSC is a big company. A major player in the game. Corporations increase prices and cut corners to pad their bottom line all the time. It's the nature of the business. They are big enough now to dictate terms to their customers. It's obvious that they can produce overpriced eggshell statues with questionable QC and peeps will buy it. Hell, I bit on the Darkseid PF.

I have to say, I find it curious that anyone would believe that XM's solid casts and stringent QC is the reason SSC is increasing the price on its merch. If SSC's price increases gave us full casts (or at the very least, great QC) I can see the correlation. All we are getting is more eggshell pieces, questionable QC, and bloated edition sizes at higher prices. This is simply SSC's business strategy and so long as peeps keep buying, we'll see more of the same. XM can close their doors tomorrow...there's no chance that SSC will lower the prices on their merch or stop future price increases. Like any established business, they want all the money the market is willing to give.

Absolutely. Look at whats occured. Sure SSC was rasing prices before bit not a. As quickly and b. In such big chunks as they have the last two years. This tells me that side show sees that 1000 or so sales at around $550 to $700 per piece at 1/4 scale with no regard to character size before shipping and customs has gotten there attention. It says two things to them. That a. There is a nice number of people out there willing to spend any where from $150 to $250 more per statue before shipping as long as they get what they want and b. If they canfind a way to do it cheaper than XM does it they can charge just as much and profit more from it. So yeah, don't be surprised to see this continue. They'll even toss in two exclusives just to get your attention [emoji38]

 

[sarakawa]

Absolutely. Look at whats occured. Sure SSC was rasing prices before bit not a. As quickly and b. In such big chunks as they have the last two years. This tells me that side show sees that 1000 or so sales at around $550 to $700 per piece at 1/4 scale with no regard to character size before shipping and customs has gotten there attention. It says two things to them. That a. There is a nice number of people out there willing to spend any where from $150 to $250 more per statue before shipping as long as they get what they want and b. If they canfind a way to do it cheaper than XM does it they can charge just as much and profit more from it. So yeah, don't be surprised to see this continue. They'll even toss in two exclusives just to get your attention [emoji38]

These 2 parts are key. I don't think they are giving us what we want or at least not what XM gives us quality wise...thats not even debatable IMO. If they do find a way to do it cheaper, more power to them and I will buy but so far, their cheaper methods show that it's not hitting high enough a quality bar.

 

[filip629]

Absolutely. Look at whats occured. Sure SSC was rasing prices before bit not a. As quickly and b. In such big chunks as they have the last two years. This tells me that side show sees that 1000 or so sales at around $550 to $700 per piece at 1/4 scale with no regard to character size before shipping and customs has gotten there attention. It says two things to them. That a. There is a nice number of people out there willing to spend any where from $150 to $250 more per statue before shipping as long as they get what they want and b. If they canfind a way to do it cheaper than XM does it they can charge just as much and profit more from it. So yeah, don't be surprised to see this continue. They'll even toss in two exclusives just to get your attention [emoji38]

Then SSC has missed the point if that's the case. One company sends peeps over to factories to ensure its merch is produced to high standards. One company individually inspects each statue before shipping it out to a customer. One company will retouch its merchandise in-house if it is not up to par. One company guarantees its sculpts to be solid. The message is clear as a bell: Peeps are willing to pay extra for QUALITY. What is SSC offering its customers with increased pricing? Let's also not forget, the majority of XM collectors don't reside in the US or Canada. XM doesn't need the US or Canada to sellout its merch. We are lucky if we can score an XM piece on our side of the pond nowadays.

I still believe the price increases are SSC trying to find out what the market will bear. Nothing more than that. Because if SSC is using XM as a gauge for price increases, then they better use XM as a gauge for quality as well. XM prices include rock solid QC and no eggshell pieces. Can SSC say the same?

 

[traylorc]

I am not totally convinced that Sideshow's price increases have anything to do with XM. Sideshow has a variety of products at different price levels. Sideshow already pieces like Galactus and Sauron that are priced at $799...which is comparable to the retail pricing of many XM pieces when translated from Singapore to US dollars. In addition, they Sideshow also has pieces priced much higher than XM. I agree with filip629's assertion that recent Sideshow price increases are attempts to see what the market will bear. In order to maximize margins and profits...you have to push the envelope.

The question has been asked if Sideshow will use XM as a gauge for quality. IMHO the answer is no...and I am willing to bet Sideshow doesn't feel they have to. XM has been receiving a ton of publicity over the past year. But if you are Sideshow...do you view them as current threat? Sideshow is the big player in the collectibles industry, they have have numerous popular licenses, they have a broader distribution channel, and they have the leverage of being a known entity. Want to buy a Sideshow product??? Order from them directly via their website, order from a number of trusted on line retailers, order from your local comic book shop, etc... XM does not have these advantages. Want to order an XM product if you live outside of Singapore? Find a person you don't know, give them a deposit, and then engage in the "I hope I don't get screwed over" prayer ceremony. My point being that XM has not been around long enough and they don't have the name recognition of Sideshow. On top of that, many potential customers state they are not even interested in purchasing XM product because of how difficult is to pre-order. That's why I am not convinced that Sideshow feels they need to match XM in terms of QC, at this point and time XM is not a major competitor. Now if XM starts securing many of the same licenses held by Sideshow, if XM distribution network includes the US and other major territories, then we have a different ball game.

 

[Josh-A-Tron]

I am not totally convinced that Sideshow's price increases have anything to do with XM. Sideshow has a variety of products at different price levels. Sideshow already pieces like Galactus and Sauron that are priced at $799...which is comparable to the retail pricing of many XM pieces when translated from Singapore to US dollars. In addition, they Sideshow also has pieces priced much higher than XM. I agree with filip629's assertion that recent Sideshow price increases are attempts to see what the market will bear. In order to maximize margins and profits...you have to push the envelope.

The question has been asked if Sideshow will use XM as a gauge for quality. IMHO the answer is no...and I am willing to bet Sideshow doesn't feel they have to. XM has been receiving a ton of publicity over the past year. But if you are Sideshow...do you view them as current threat? Sideshow is the big player in the collectibles industry, they have have numerous popular licenses, they have a broader distribution channel, and they have the leverage of being a known entity. Want to buy a Sideshow product??? Order from them directly via their website, order from a number of trusted on line retailers, order from your local comic book shop, etc... XM does not have these advantages. Want to order an XM product if you live outside of Singapore? Find a person you don't know, give them a deposit, and then engage in the "I hope I don't get screwed over" prayer ceremony. My point being that XM has not been around long enough and they don't have the name recognition of Sideshow. On top of that, many potential customers state they are not even interested in purchasing XM product because of how difficult is to pre-order. That's why I am not convinced that Sideshow feels they need to match XM in terms of QC, at this point and time XM is not a major competitor. Now if XM starts securing many of the same licenses held by Sideshow, if XM distribution network includes the US and other major territories, then we have a different ball game.

Galactus and Sauron are both huge pieces. They dwarf almost all 1/4 scale offerings. Sideshow there fore prices them accordingly.

 

[Uncle Bingo]

I don't think these price increases have anything to do with XM either. The reason Sideshow keeps raising the prices is because every time they do people keep paying it. They will not stop this and will continue to cut corners at the expense of QC until collectors stop purchasing. Thats not happening anytime soon as collectors whine, ***** and moan about it on the forums and then order their vanity piece anyways at whatever cost SS charges. SS would be stupid to stop raising the prices.

 

[traylorc]

Galactus and Sauron are both huge pieces. They dwarf almost all 1/4 scale offerings. Sideshow there fore prices them accordingly.

I totally understand that... However, the price point for those statues show a willingness for customers to accept paying $799 or more for their collectibles. Maybe customers feel they get so much more with Galactus and Sauron...so the prices are justifiable. Bottom line...I believe Sideshow understands if you convince consumers there is a perceived value that justifies the price point...they will pay. I do not believe Sideshow management is looking at XM and wondering "can we get our customers to accept a similar pricing structure." IMHO Sideshow is looking for ways to maximize margins and overall profitability. So you keep pushing price points until you see noticeable push back from your customer base. Uncle Bingo made a great point that I have echoed for a long time...Sideshow keeps increasing prices aggressively simply because they can.

 

[gothamcityboy]

i love XM STUDIOS Product, sideshow always have a place in my collection but they have to watch out about their new competitor, XM studios and pop culture shock are really really good. i can see more passion in these 2 companies than sideshow these days, just like their new batman premium format the modern age and the first one. they can make diffrent pose and everthing but they dont, that just to bad. i paid about $700 for magneto in mint condition and i dont mind paying more, you can see lot more passion than sideshow in this statue, the design, the detail, paint job. i can not wait xm studio doing DC line and i hope they keeping the low edition.

 

[DerekDeS]

I don't think these price increases have anything to do with XM either. The reason Sideshow keeps raising the prices is because every time they do people keep paying it. They will not stop this and will continue to cut corners at the expense of QC until collectors stop purchasing. Thats not happening anytime soon as collectors whine, ***** and moan about it on the forums and then order their vanity piece anyways at whatever cost SS charges. SS would be stupid to stop raising the prices.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have stopped buying. SS has crossed the line where the value received does not justify the price. If the quality was there I might still buy but as it stands right now Powergirl will be my last piece. Those that whine about the price and QC but still buy are just enabling SS to continue with their practices.

 

[nemenforcer]

I love ss and have collected them nearly 15 Years. In the past I would order about 5k a year from them. I now have less than 1k on PO (Jean and Emma and Valkyrie) which are easy cancels. So truthfully I am starting to cut back due to pricing. I like this Arkham Bats. I like the Red Son. I like their Vader and Fett PF'S. But...with the higher prices and ultra es I don't feel compelled to order...at all.

 

[Tbolt]

I love ss and have collected them nearly 15 Years. In the past I would order about 5k a year from them. I now have less than 1k on PO (Jean and Emma and Valkyrie) which are easy cancels. So truthfully I am starting to cut back due to pricing. I like this Arkham Bats. I like the Red Son. I like their Vader and Fett PF'S. But...with the higher prices and ultra es I don't feel compelled to order...at all.

Getting there myself. If we are at the days of $500 PF's (Looks like it) not sure how many more of these things I need to buy. At that point, I would rather go after a few older pieces to round out my collection and call it a day.

I feel like my point about XM has gotten missed. It is not about the two companies being in competition with each other, until XM has the same distribution license its a moot point. What it is about is competing for the same qualified labor at the same factories both are using. XM stepped up the compensation they were willing to pay for top level pieces. At the end of the day, there is still only so much top flight labor to go around and so many statues that can be made in a year. For SS to grab a piece of that labor talent, they too have to pay up. It's not that they can't get them made, it's the skilled labor that is in higher demand.

As to someone mentioning SS not doing a list of Marvel characters, Igo himself said they were shocked to see another company with a Marvel 1/4 license at last years con. They were caught off guard. I really think they look at those characters with a long term strategy in mind. You see when they were aware of GG putting out Iron Patriot/Movie Cap, they rushed to get their own up into the marketplace for order and with extra incentives. I don't think they have been able to react to XM though in that regard, as that company seems to move pretty fast from announcement to finished product.

At the end of the day though, this is all speculation, and it really doesn't matter what the reason is for the higher prices. I just think that these things are climbing too fast for this to have been part of any coherent strategy and has to be as a result of market forces coming to bare. The interesting thing is, are we hitting a price ceiling and a saturation point at the same time? There is no shortage of options to spend money on this stuff.

 

[creature4000]

I love ss and have collected them nearly 15 Years. In the past I would order about 5k a year from them. I now have less than 1k on PO (Jean and Emma and Valkyrie) which are easy cancels. So truthfully I am starting to cut back due to pricing. I like this Arkham Bats. I like the Red Son. I like their Vader and Fett PF'S. But...with the higher prices and ultra es I don't feel compelled to order...at all.

Yep... I'm here as well. I would have no problem paying this much for a collectable, not just something I bought at the toy store.

 

[filip629]

All I know is that at these prices (and what we get for it), I'm cutting back pretty good. After I round out the Big 7, my JLA lineup is done. I'll just need a few Bat-villains and my DC collection will be complete.

On the Marvel side of things, I just need to continue waiting on a modern raging green Hulk that I like. I also need a 1/4 Green Goblin. That's pretty much it unless SSC does an 80's Byrne X-MEN line. I have given up on that happening so I'm basically down to 2 Marvel PFs.

SSC's pricing has basically stopped me from making any impulse purchases. This Arkham line is a perfect example. I don't need an Arkham Bats line when I already know I'll be picking up the classic PFs of the same characters. I already have the Bats and Joker PFs. However, I love the Arkham games and the costume designs in those games. If the Arkham Bats was $400, I probably would have pulled the trigger on it and let the awkward pose slide. Same with the Joker if he retailed for $ 400 (I love everything about the AA Joker). It's definitely the pricing that's keeping me from picking up the 3 or 4 PFs in the Arkham series. Color me curious, but I'm really interested in how many pieces SSC will be moving in this line at the new higher price point? I guess we'll know more once the ES on AA Bats and Joker is revealed.

 

[Josh-A-Tron]

All I know is that at these prices (and what we get for it), I'm cutting back pretty good. After I round out the Big 7, my JLA lineup is done. I'll just need a few Bat-villains and my DC collection will be complete.

On the Marvel side of things, I just need to continue waiting on a modern raging green Hulk that I like. I also need a 1/4 Green Goblin. That's pretty much it unless SSC does an 80's Byrne X-MEN line. I have given up on that happening so I'm basically down to 2 Marvel PFs.

SSC's pricing has basically stopped me from making any impulse purchases. This Arkham line is a perfect example. I don't need an Arkham Bats line when I already know I'll be picking up the classic PFs of the same characters. I already have the Bats and Joker PFs. However, I love the Arkham games and the costume designs in those games. If the Arkham Bats was $400, I probably would have pulled the trigger on it and let the awkward pose slide. Same with the Joker if he retailed for $ 400 (I love everything about the AA Joker). It's definitely the pricing that's keeping me from picking up the 3 or 4 PFs in the Arkham series. Color me curious, but I'm really interested in how many pieces SSC will be moving in this line at the new higher price point? I guess we'll know more once the ES on AA Bats and Joker is revealed.

Well if it's any indication, you know I'm all about Batman and I even didn't mind the pose on the Arkham Batman but that price...ouch. I only have so may rewards points to go around to make these affordable. Since I already have the modern Batman PF coming to go with my JLA line up I can't justify spending that much more on basically the same character. If they kept them all down in price it would be different. So I'd rather take my reward points and money and use it on characters I don't already have. But as it goes, I may even cut some characters I wanted out if the price keeps going up and I can't level things out with rewards.