That does sound like something I might have said.
The Phantom Menace: It actually isn't that bad!
- Thread starter Khev
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Yeah. The Phantom Menace is great minus the kid actor. Which, let's face it, wasn't the kid's fault. He was 10. What do you want? Meryl Streep? It was Lucas' direction.
I expect hatred but my rankings of the films go:
1. Return of the Jedi
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Attack of the Clones
6. A New Hope
Happy to explain my logic behind any of it.
I expect hatred but my rankings of the films go:
1. Return of the Jedi
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Attack of the Clones
6. A New Hope
Happy to explain my logic behind any of it.
Its no coincidence the kid was one and done, he couldnt act to save his life. He doesnt deserve a pass because he was a kid, could you imagine watching goonies or stand by me staring kids from the jake loyd school of acting. Hayden ****enson was par for the course.
I think it was a-dev who pointed out that all the great movies of the past are now criticized as overrated, even garbage in some cases by geek fans for some mysterious reason. I guess this is the Bizarro World version of that, where crappy movies from the past become good in hindsight.
Well I think saying "all good movies of the past suck" or "all crappy movies are now awesome" is over-generalizing just a *bit* but I do think that time does often allow for a different perspective, often free from what was either novel or off putting in the heat of the moment years ago. I do think that The Phantom Menace has good "bones" and that it's problems are mostly surface issues and presentation in a few select areas. As many have said in this very thread with a little bit of strategic editing and a few line rewrites it could have really been entrenched as a very good movie, or at least a very good Star Wars movie.
I've never been able to fully dismiss it, something about it has always kind of held on for me even if I'm often tempted to sweep it away due to its association with AOTC and ROTS. But having read those old outlines and now realizing that the dialogue actually does fit as part of a much better subtext that I hadn't been recognizing, I just feel that it got a big boost in legitimacy.
Uncle Bingo
Love that Joker
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I've loved the Phantom Menace ever since it first came out. I love it as much as the OT. Its my favorite of the prequels. I never could figure out why this movie is hated by the "fans" so much.
Deedzy
Super Freak
Yeah. The Phantom Menace is great minus the kid actor. Which, let's face it, wasn't the kid's fault. He was 10. What do you want? Meryl Streep? It was Lucas' direction.
I expect hatred but my rankings of the films go:
1. Return of the Jedi
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Attack of the Clones
6. A New Hope
Happy to explain my logic behind any of it.
There is no logic behind that list. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but in this case you're wrong and your opinion stinks. Just my opinion
.There is no defending the Phantom Menace. It's a horrible movie.
Centurion
Super Freak
A New Hope was from 1977 and the expectations of society/people was very different compared to the present. For a movie that's going on 38 years, I think it's holding up well.
The Phantom Menace in 1999... WOW! It might as well be released in 1977!
I kind of agree (Jar Jar is just too much lol) from the trilogy I can watch the second one if I skip some of the romance scenes and the conveyor belt scene, But from the 3 I will always like the 3rd one the most out of them. At least visually I like it the most. it is the most interesting one of all 3. (I was thinking about buying the 3rd one alone at one point) I tried to watch the first one but i get bored and end up skipping to the last fight.
EVILFACE
Super Freak
Not really, it's just a movie.
TPM happened. No amount of dialoguing or fan edits or whatever will change that. The most frustrating thing about it for me was that for a long time I felt that it betrayed what was the "true" backstory and subtext of the OT. The impression I got from things like online interviews with Gary Kurtz was that it was supposed to be tons of badass Jedi fighting badass Sith and Anakin starting out as an adult and bla bla bla.
But since then I just haven't found any other evidence supporting the notion that Lucas did a total 180 on the backstory as he originally envisioned it. He tweaked it obviously like having Padme die in childbirth instead of when Leia was a couple years old but tweaks always happen, and they happened when he made ESB and ROTJ.
He executed a lot of things in ways that I didn't love but that also occurred in ROTJ. ROTJ is really quite annoying in a lot of ways if you think about it. But we always forgive it. Why? Because it's still very exciting in parts, offers completion to the story built up in ANH and ESB and it has great iconography. Jabba, Speeder Bikes, the Space Battle, Vader's funeral pyre. To this day we still forgive ewoks for crying out loud. Ewoks!
I can understand why people would dismiss the PT, I did (or at least wanted to) for a good number of years. But it really is "the saga of Star Wars" and nothing will really change that. I suppose Disney could have retconned them out or sidelined them as part of the massively non-canon "Legends" banner but they didn't. And I think that The Force Awakens WILL acknowledge them in some way and I think that The Force Awakens just might end up being the best SW film since The Empire Strikes Back. I could be wrong of course, but what if it is? If you can't handle watching a movie that isn't "3 stars" or above then obviously you'll ignore the PT as being "beneath you." Whatever. I like a lot of things that are far from perfect. Hell I've got a picture of Godzilla that my five year old son scribbled with some crayons attached to my refrigerator. Does it look like Stan Winston drew it? Hell no. But it's Godzilla. Drawn by my kid. So you bet your ass that damn thing is front center on my fridge. And TPM (and even AOTC and ROTS) aren't that different. I love SW. And I really like the people who made these movies. So I enjoy them.
I guess the more I've thought about it the more it just sinks in that Gungans, or "yippee" or "I hate sand" or "Nooooo!" just isn't that damn big of a deal. The Empire Strikes Back was *this close* to being partially stupid if they didn't edit out the Keystone Cop Snowtroopers or that awful Han and Leia dialogue. The prequels didn't benefit from the expert editing of some of its predecessors but so what.
Darth Maul is freaking COOL. So is Jango. Even AOTC has at least one truly OT-esque scene when Anakin is brooding at the sunset on Tatooine. The Harmy trilogy has allowed me the *option* of watching the PT, and even the SE's, in a way that I can appreciate the good but not be infuriated by the bad. Now I just laugh at the goofy stuff. Like literally laugh out loud or shake my head. Just because somebody (George Lucas) had the audacity to "go there." "No matter what universe you're from, that's gotta hurt." Really? You actually put that line in a SW movie? Hilarious. Not hilarious the line is funny but hilarious that it HAPPENED. It's just crazy. And equally or even more crazy is that so many of us (myself included) got so damn butt hurt about it.
I don't think that TPM proved that George Lucas is a dork or a loser but I kind of think it proved that a lot of US were. It certainly wasn't a worse movie than other 90's sci-fi action films like Stargate, Independence Day, The Fifth Element or Wild Wild West. It was better than all of those. But did we **** our pants and weep and wail for *DECADES* that Wild Wild West sucked? No. We were just "yeah, that wasn't good" and lived out our lives. The Fifth Element is another movie that had some genuinely cool elements offset by a "Jar Jar Binks" type character but, again, it didn't destroy our lives or become this big line in the sand that we WOULD NOT CROSS or acknowledge or whatever.
Big ass ramble I know but the prequels did one important thing for me, they provided cool new Star Wars stuff. Sure, I wish the films were as good as ESB from beginning to end but ROTJ sure proved that that just isn't necessary. Hopefully TFA will be another ESB or at least ANH but again, if it's simply as "good" as ROTJ then I'll be more than happy. If it's no better than the PT well hey, at least we'll have some cool looking new Stormtroopers and a neat tri-saber to argue about for the next 20 years.
But since then I just haven't found any other evidence supporting the notion that Lucas did a total 180 on the backstory as he originally envisioned it. He tweaked it obviously like having Padme die in childbirth instead of when Leia was a couple years old but tweaks always happen, and they happened when he made ESB and ROTJ.
He executed a lot of things in ways that I didn't love but that also occurred in ROTJ. ROTJ is really quite annoying in a lot of ways if you think about it. But we always forgive it. Why? Because it's still very exciting in parts, offers completion to the story built up in ANH and ESB and it has great iconography. Jabba, Speeder Bikes, the Space Battle, Vader's funeral pyre. To this day we still forgive ewoks for crying out loud. Ewoks!
I can understand why people would dismiss the PT, I did (or at least wanted to) for a good number of years. But it really is "the saga of Star Wars" and nothing will really change that. I suppose Disney could have retconned them out or sidelined them as part of the massively non-canon "Legends" banner but they didn't. And I think that The Force Awakens WILL acknowledge them in some way and I think that The Force Awakens just might end up being the best SW film since The Empire Strikes Back. I could be wrong of course, but what if it is? If you can't handle watching a movie that isn't "3 stars" or above then obviously you'll ignore the PT as being "beneath you." Whatever. I like a lot of things that are far from perfect. Hell I've got a picture of Godzilla that my five year old son scribbled with some crayons attached to my refrigerator. Does it look like Stan Winston drew it? Hell no. But it's Godzilla. Drawn by my kid. So you bet your ass that damn thing is front center on my fridge.
And TPM (and even AOTC and ROTS) aren't that different. I love SW. And I really like the people who made these movies. So I enjoy them.I guess the more I've thought about it the more it just sinks in that Gungans, or "yippee" or "I hate sand" or "Nooooo!" just isn't that damn big of a deal. The Empire Strikes Back was *this close* to being partially stupid if they didn't edit out the Keystone Cop Snowtroopers or that awful Han and Leia dialogue. The prequels didn't benefit from the expert editing of some of its predecessors but so what.
Darth Maul is freaking COOL. So is Jango. Even AOTC has at least one truly OT-esque scene when Anakin is brooding at the sunset on Tatooine. The Harmy trilogy has allowed me the *option* of watching the PT, and even the SE's, in a way that I can appreciate the good but not be infuriated by the bad. Now I just laugh at the goofy stuff. Like literally laugh out loud or shake my head. Just because somebody (George Lucas) had the audacity to "go there." "No matter what universe you're from, that's gotta hurt." Really? You actually put that line in a SW movie? Hilarious. Not hilarious the line is funny but hilarious that it HAPPENED. It's just crazy. And equally or even more crazy is that so many of us (myself included) got so damn butt hurt about it.
I don't think that TPM proved that George Lucas is a dork or a loser but I kind of think it proved that a lot of US were. It certainly wasn't a worse movie than other 90's sci-fi action films like Stargate, Independence Day, The Fifth Element or Wild Wild West. It was better than all of those. But did we **** our pants and weep and wail for *DECADES* that Wild Wild West sucked? No. We were just "yeah, that wasn't good" and lived out our lives. The Fifth Element is another movie that had some genuinely cool elements offset by a "Jar Jar Binks" type character but, again, it didn't destroy our lives or become this big line in the sand that we WOULD NOT CROSS or acknowledge or whatever.
Big ass ramble I know but the prequels did one important thing for me, they provided cool new Star Wars stuff. Sure, I wish the films were as good as ESB from beginning to end but ROTJ sure proved that that just isn't necessary. Hopefully TFA will be another ESB or at least ANH but again, if it's simply as "good" as ROTJ then I'll be more than happy. If it's no better than the PT well hey, at least we'll have some cool looking new Stormtroopers and a neat tri-saber to argue about for the next 20 years.
This.
I remember George Lucas saying he always had a fascination with speed and that maybe he kept trying to go faster but he said maybe he went too fast with the Phantom Menace. I agree but for the whole prequel Trilogy. Too much of the story, of the "boring" stuff was left out that makes you care about the exciting parts.
And George Lucas had children before Jedi. Many people will tell you that when you do have kids you're just no longer the wannabe gunslinger, woman chaser, pint guzzling, solo rebel hero that you used to think was so cool. It changed his outlook on movies.
cokebabies
Super Freak
No matter how good the movie is or isn't, TPM provided me with so much fun and excitement with the time leading up to it. Before the prequels, we didn't think SW would let us down. The hype and excitement leading up to TPM was almost unbearable - SW media everywhere, those little cardboard circles on Taco Bell drink cups, R2D2 soda holders at 7-11, themed cup covers at KFC and Taco Bell, the action figures in almost every conceivable store... you name it.
I was 3 for the release of ROTJ. While the special editions had some fun, I had never gotten to be part of the theatrical excitement of one of my favorite things in the world.
Did TPM let me down? Yes. But I still like it. It's my favorite of the three by miles. But I know a lot of that judgement comes from associating the movie with the excitement leading up to it. I didn't have that for AOTC or ROTS.
I was 3 for the release of ROTJ. While the special editions had some fun, I had never gotten to be part of the theatrical excitement of one of my favorite things in the world.
Did TPM let me down? Yes. But I still like it. It's my favorite of the three by miles. But I know a lot of that judgement comes from associating the movie with the excitement leading up to it. I didn't have that for AOTC or ROTS.
Deedzy
Super Freak
TPM is better than The Fifth Element? 
Even the most rose tinted of glasses can't hide the how bad TPM is. My 7 year old loves PARTS of it and asks me to skip the sections he doesn't like but will sit through ESB a 30yo movie. I get people like it and more power to them but I'm not one of those people.
Oh sweet Jesus I can't believe we still talk about this movie ahhh!
Even the most rose tinted of glasses can't hide the how bad TPM is. My 7 year old loves PARTS of it and asks me to skip the sections he doesn't like but will sit through ESB a 30yo movie. I get people like it and more power to them but I'm not one of those people.
Oh sweet Jesus I can't believe we still talk about this movie ahhh!
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Mandible
Super Freak
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TPM is better than The Fifth Element?
Even the most rose tinted of glasses can't hide the how bad TPM is. My 7 year old loves PARTS of it and asks me to skip the sections he doesn't like but will sit through ESB a 30yo movie. I get people like it and more power to them but I'm not one of those people.
Oh sweet Jesus I can't believe we still talk about this movie ahhh!
GOLD!!!!
Couldn't agree more.
There are good bits from each of the prequels - but that's about it...
jkno
Stormtrooper
For me the Prequels are in fact the Expanded Universe of Star Wars - whereas there are EU stories 100 times better than PT. I watch PT from time to time, but they are no more than any other regular movie I watch. When watching OT it's like a screen festivity for me.
While I have sworn off the PT, I do believe that TPM is by far the best and had the other two kept the quality of the first I would perhaps not have sworn them off.
TPM has real sets and locations. Probably the biggest reason it feels like a Star Wars movie to me.. All the Green screen crap of the other two make it feel glossy and unreal.
TPM also has the only good villain of the PT... Actually the two best villains. Maul and The Emperor... It's the only time the Emperor feels like the same Emperor from the OT and not an overacting goofball with bad make up.
Great Saber duels, Qui Gon, and an actual Space Battle also help this film feel more like Star Wars then the other two. Plus the Score in this one was the best of the PT.
It's far from perfect... But more in a ROTJ sort of way then a AOTC and ROTS way.
AOTC is pretty much unwatchable and ROTS is rushed and all over the place and failed to live up to what we all were waiting for.
TPM has real sets and locations. Probably the biggest reason it feels like a Star Wars movie to me.. All the Green screen crap of the other two make it feel glossy and unreal.
TPM also has the only good villain of the PT... Actually the two best villains. Maul and The Emperor... It's the only time the Emperor feels like the same Emperor from the OT and not an overacting goofball with bad make up.
Great Saber duels, Qui Gon, and an actual Space Battle also help this film feel more like Star Wars then the other two. Plus the Score in this one was the best of the PT.
It's far from perfect... But more in a ROTJ sort of way then a AOTC and ROTS way.
AOTC is pretty much unwatchable and ROTS is rushed and all over the place and failed to live up to what we all were waiting for.
TPM is better than The Fifth Element?
Fifth Element is crap and the Chris Tucker is far more annoying then Jar Jar.
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