X-Men: Days of Future Past

[dw316]

That's what it's looking like.

I really hope the next Wolverine film deals with the Weapon X program again. They can really broaden their universe if they nail the story and characters of that story, such as Deadpool, Sabertooth, Omega Red etc...


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Would've loved to see that Wolverine-Captain America cameo run in back during WWII.... Damn those licensing rights!!! Weapon 1 meets the future Weapon 10 and fight together side-by-side briefly.

 

[DiFabio]

I could see Logan getting the mask if he's somehow "corrupted" in the next one by Mystique or Apocalypse. Maybe he becomes one of the 4 horsemen and gets the mask.

 

[pturtle]

Would've loved to see that Wolverine-Captain America cameo run in back during WWII.... Damn those licensing rights!!! Weapon 1 meets the future Weapon 10 and fight together side-by-side briefly.

I remember their were rumors before Cap 1 released that Logan would make a quick cameo but remain nameless. That would have been awesome.

 

[pturtle]

I could see Logan getting the mask if he's somehow "corrupted" in the next one by Mystique or Apocalypse. Maybe he becomes one of the 4 horsemen and gets the mask.

The Wolverine was the perfect chance of getting him to wear that mask, they could have just said it was made for him in honor of some crap.

 

[Niltusk]

No one blinks an eye with a comic-accurate Spider-Man. . .but it's a moot point anyway. Even that new costume is way too "silly" for Singer. Black leather biker outfit to return, be my guess. And of course, no mask.

It's a comic book movie, it's okay if he gets shot in the head and instantly heals or has dumb ass claws that pop out of his hands, but woah, let's over think how 'silly' a costume would look. Because apparently, the general movie goer wants a realistic experience when they pay to see mind readers and blue ape men.

 

[pturtle]

It's a comic book movie, it's okay if he gets shot in the head and instantly heals or has dumb ass claws that pop out of his hands, but woah, let's over think how 'silly' a costume would look. Because apparently, the general movie goer wants a realistic experience when they pay to see mind readers and blue ape men.

The thing is, Bryan Singer tries to makes these films as real as he POSSIBLY can. A lot of the superficial comic book stuff has never really made it into these films and never really fit…well the good movies at least. Singer seems to be trying to change that a bit, but I don’t think Wolverine’s costume is that necessary, he’s one of the few superheroes that wears his regular attire while he’s out fighting just as much as when he wears his costume.

 

[GasparZizou]

Wow, the costumes aren't superficial, they are half of the soul superhero comics, equal part to superpowers.

It's not about realism, the realism goes out the window the moment you see someone flying, it's about logic, and even if I demand to see Wolverine in costume, the audience needs a reason for it, simple as that, writing a reason for Wolverine to wear a costume should be easy.

Now you can try to make the setting realistic, the consequences, the themes, all that you can try to ground, the fact that superheroes need costumes and have super powers, that you can't.

On the other hand, questioning the need of a costume is not over thinking at all, it's common sense, Spiderman costume has a reason to exist, Wolverine costume doesn't.

Now, I can get behind giving Wolverine a costume for no reason because I love comics and I'm used to that kind of paraphernalia, but the non-comicbook reader audience is not.

 

[pturtle]

Wow, the costumes aren't superficial, they are half of the soul superhero comics, equal part to superpowers.

It's not about realism, the realism goes out the window the moment you see someone flying, it's about logic, and even if I demand to see Wolverine in costume, the audience needs a reason for it, simple as that, writing a reason for Wolverine to wear a costume should be easy.

Now you can try to make the setting realistic, the consequences, the themes, all that you can try to ground, the fact that superheroes need costumes and have super powers, that you can't.

On the other hand, questioning the need of a costume is not over thinking at all, it's common sense, Spiderman costume has a reason to exist, Wolverine costume doesn't.

Now, I can get behind giving Wolverine a costume for no reason because I love comics and I'm used to that kind of paraphernalia, but the non-comicbook reader audience is not.

I never really looked at the X-Men as superheroes though, these movies are mostly about them trying to fit into society and saving their own ass. They’ve always had their own agenda compared to the rest of the Marvel universe.

Singer’s X-Films are made to show what if mutants actually existed in the world we live in, I’m not against the costumes at all as long as it doesn’t detract from grounded realism these movies portray. Wolverine is a character that never really needed a costume, even in the comics they never justified why he wears one, he just does because it looks “cool”. I understand they can write a good reason for him to have one, but "if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Jackman’s Wolverine is one of the best things about the series, I don’t think a mask would do much for his character.

Look at a movie like Dawn OF The Planet Of The Apes. I already have to suspend all belief for talking apes, but the directors job is to try and make it as believable as possible. The X-Men films have always worked the same way, I always felt they distanced themselves by remaining as real as possible and dropping a lot of the comic book elements to make something more than just a good comic book movie. I know I’m in the minority with this, but these films work best grounded in my opinion, we already have enough superhero movies going the fantastical route, having at least one comic book franchise tackling real world issues and themes as maturely as possible would be nice.

 

[dw316]

I could see Logan getting the mask if he's somehow "corrupted" in the next one by Mystique or Apocalypse. Maybe he becomes one of the 4 horsemen and gets the mask.

That'd be interesting...

 

[GasparZizou]

I never really looked at the X-Men as superheroes though, these movies are mostly about them trying to fit into society and saving their own ass. They’ve always had their own agenda compared to the rest of the Marvel universe.

They are a group of mutants with superpowers whose main objective is to keep peace between mutants and humans, they are superheroes no matter how you look at it.

If they weren't superheroes, Magneto wouldn't be a supervillain.

Singer’s X-Films are made to show what if mutants actually existed in the world we live in, I’m not against the costumes at all as long as it doesn’t detract from grounded realism these movies portray. Wolverine is a character that never really needed a costume, even in the comics they never justified why he wears one, he just does because it looks “cool”. I understand they can write a good reason for him to have one, but "if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Jackman’s Wolverine is one of the best things about the series, I don’t think a mask would do much for his character.

It shouldn't detract from realism more than the already existing fact that they are mutants with crazy powers, because they are not realistic mutants, we have mutants in the real world due to radiation in many parts of the world, and they don't look like the X-men nor they have superpowers.

And you're right, Wolverine costume was never explained to my knowledge, and like I said, while I'm fine with them just giving him a suit for the sake of it, the rest of the audience needs a reason and I can understand that.

I think if done right, a suit/mask could elevate Jackman's Wolverine to a classic portrayal of the character much like Reeve's Superman or RDJ Iron Man, so it could really help the character.

Look at a movie like Dawn OF The Planet Of The Apes. I already have to suspend all belief for talking apes, but the directors job is to try and make it as believable as possible. The X-Men films have always worked the same way, I always felt they distanced themselves by remaining as real as possible and dropping a lot of the comic book elements to make something more than just a good comic book movie. I know I’m in the minority with this, but these films work best grounded in my opinion,

I don't quite see the analogy between X-men movies and DOTPOTA lol lol long acronym).

Like I said, you can make the themes, the setting and the consequences realistic, but not the fact that they are super beings with crazy powers, not giving them their costumes is kind of hypocritical.

we already have enough superhero movies going the fantastical route,

Not nearly enough imo.

having at least one comic book franchise tackling real world issues and themes as maturely as possible would be nice.

But you don't have to loose the funky costumes to tackle real world issues and themes in a mature way.

Cap2 did it in a much better way and it's a movie that exists withing the MCU, which includes a talking Raccoon.

There are comics that dig waaaay deeper into topics like patriotism, racism, segregation, sexism, violence, war, family, and even big ass moral conundrums and philosophical questions in a much better and satisfying way than the X-men movies.

Without loosing the costumes.

 

[The Ween]

He looks better without pants anyway.

Hell yeah! I'd be all for a mask if that's all he wore.

 

[pturtle]

They are a group of mutants with superpowers whose main objective is to keep peace between mutants and humans, they are superheroes no matter how you look at it.

If they weren't superheroes, Magneto wouldn't be a supervillain.



It shouldn't detract from realism more than the already existing fact that they are mutants with crazy powers, because they are not realistic mutants, we have mutants in the real world due to radiation in many parts of the world, and they don't look like the X-men nor they have superpowers.

And you're right, Wolverine costume was never explained to my knowledge, and like I said, while I'm fine with them just giving him a suit for the sake of it, the rest of the audience needs a reason and I can understand that.

I think if done right, a suit/mask could elevate Jackman's Wolverine to a classic portrayal of the character much like Reeve's Superman or RDJ Iron Man, so it could really help the character.


I don't quite see the analogy between X-men movies and DOTPOTA lol lol long acronym).

Like I said, you can make the themes, the setting and the consequences realistic, but not the fact that they are super beings with crazy powers, not giving them their costumes is kind of hypocritical.


Not nearly enough imo.


But you don't have to loose the funky costumes to tackle real world issues and themes in a mature way.

Cap2 did it in a much better way and it's a movie that exists withing the MCU, which includes a talking Raccoon.

There are comics that dig waaaay deeper into topics like patriotism, racism, segregation, sexism, violence, war, family, and even big ass moral conundrums and philosophical questions in a much better and satisfying way than the X-men movies.

Without loosing the costumes.

I think the X-Men franchise is the last of the grounded/serious superhero films, and Singer might be the last auteur working on a superhero film, Spider-man, and BvS seem to be going back to the comicbooky approach, everything else after that comes from Marvel Studios.

DOTPOTA has talking apes, that right there, like mutants with powers doesn’t exist, but part of the charm is making it as believable as possible so the audience can kind of accept it as an interesting “what if” scenario. Matt Reeves did his best to make something as fictional as talking apes, and how they live and function in the world as real as we can possibly imagine, and thats what Singer is doing with the X-Men. Both of these franchises are quite similar. They care more about story and themes than anything else, the action and costumes really have to service the plot and characters. Thats really why I loved Quicksilver’s outfit in DOFP, he’s wearing a Pink Floyd shirt and other loud clothes that really represents who he is, and the era he lives in. I prefer that for the X-Men films, I know I’m in the minority.

The X-Men were never really tied to their costumes quite like Spiderman, Batman, Superman, Iron Man etc… They never really needed them, they’ve had plenty of stories where they fought in just their regular attire. Maybe thats why I’m not bent on them having their comic book costumes, I’m also not against it though.

Hugh Jackman’s plays Wolverine more accurately than RDJ plays Iron Man, but neither actor plays his character as accurately as Reeve did with Superman, but I’m fine with that, as long as the movies are good. I do think Jackman’s Wolverine is just as iconic as the other two, maybe not Reeve.

I found Cap 2 to be a great action film, but I never felt like they were keeping things as real as possible, some of it actually felt quite over the top. I actually enjoyed Cap fighting in his civilian clothing more than in his costume, when he got his costume in the third act, I thought it felt a bit forced.

This is the most we’ve ever debated on something Gasp, please don’t hate me after this

 

[thedopefreshness]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't think Jackman's performance as Logan needs any sort of strengthening, I see Wolverine in any median and I think Hugh Jackman and vice versa. It's my opinion, and this my come off as sacrilege that Hugh is just as icon in the role of Logan as Reeves was as Superman.

As for his wearing of the mask, I'm not against it, but I want there to be some sort of logic behind it, a purpose for it. So far in the X-Men films the team never had a reason to hide their identities because everyone (the government) knew where and who they were.

 

[GasparZizou]

I think the X-Men franchise is the last of the grounded/serious superhero films, and Singer might be the last auteur working on a superhero film, Spider-man, and BvS seem to be going back to the comicbooky approach, everything else after that comes from Marvel Studios.

Let me clarify, when I rant about the X-men movies not being comicbooky enough, I mean the 1st three movies, I think the 1st Class and DOFP are a breed on their own and obviously a bit of a reboot, where they are slowly embracing their superhero heritage, now you have humor in those movies, you have Quick Silver, whom despite not having a comicbook accurate costume (and I'm fine with that) is still shamelessly ridiculous, which despite having like 5 minutes of screen time is a fan favorite highlight, then you also have the sentinels and time-freaking-traveling.

So calling these new X-men movies "grounded" is a bit of a stretch.

Even more, considering the next movie involves a 8 feet 5000 year near omnipotent grey skinned mutant.

Realism or ground should not be a concern when approaching the intrinsic nature of comicbook folklore, it should not be.

The setting and consequences is what makes people believe in them more easily, not diluting what makes these movies comicbook movies to begin with.

DOTPOTA has talking apes, that right there, like mutants with powers doesn’t exist, but part of the charm is making it as believable as possible so the audience can kind of accept it as an interesting “what if” scenario. Matt Reeves did his best to make something as fictional as talking apes, and how they live and function in the world as real as we can possibly imagine, and thats what Singer is doing with the X-Men. Both of these franchises are quite similar. They care more about story and themes than anything else, the action and costumes really have to service the plot and characters. Thats really why I loved Quicksilver’s outfit in DOFP, he’s wearing a Pink Floyd shirt and other loud clothes that really represents who he is, and the era he lives in. I prefer that for the X-Men films, I know I’m in the minority.

Like I said, you can make it believable without taking away the cool costumes, in fact 1st Class, while it may not have the classic costumes, it at least has something similar to the All-new Xmen costumes.

Now, talking apes, talking apes are not nearly anything like superhumans with superpowers, it's far lower in the "ridiculous" scale, so still don't see how the analogy works.

Again, there's no reason to neglect half of the identity of comicbooks when focusing on story and themes, the MCU has action and costumes that are serviceable to the plot.

If they neglect something as simple as the costumes that much, at one point they stop being the X-men and they turn into that "Heroes" TV show.

The X-Men were never really tied to their costumes quite like Spiderman, Batman, Superman, Iron Man etc… They never really needed them, they’ve had plenty of stories where they fought in just their regular attire. Maybe thats why I’m not bent on them having their comic book costumes, I’m also not against it though.

Yes they have plenty moments where they're shown in regular clothes, but the vast overwhelming majority of the time they are in their X-men uniforms.

And actually, while Wolverine may not need a mask, they're uniforms because they're a team, and many of them have properties that adapt to the powers of their users, even as basic ones as to offer protection because not everyone has a healing factor.

But then we enter the territory of "Spiderman doesn't really need to be red and blue"... And then what's the point of making superhero movies anymore? If you just don't care about the fact that they come from comicbooks....

Hugh Jackman’s plays Wolverine more accurately than RDJ plays Iron Man, but neither actor plays his character as accurately as Reeve did with Superman, but I’m fine with that, as long as the movies are good. I do think Jackman’s Wolverine is just as iconic as the other two, maybe not Reeve.

Not at all, RDJ is actually almost tailor made to play Tony Stark, Jackman has had good moments, but he's not near being the Wolverine I know from the comics and cartoons.

He's almost as off as Bale playing Batman.

I found Cap 2 to be a great action film, but I never felt like they were keeping things as real as possible, some of it actually felt quite over the top. I actually enjoyed Cap fighting in his civilian clothing more than in his costume, when he got his costume in the third act, I thought it felt a bit forced.

This is the most we’ve ever debated on something Gasp, please don’t hate me after this

Why forced? He needed the protection and the helmet, I feel the X-men movies being that reluctant to embrace their comic book heritage is more forced than that

Yes, it may have over the top moments, that's what happens when you have an all-comicbook villain organization like Hydra Cap2 also has a more relevant theme than DOFP and tackles at moral questions in a more effective way than DOFP.

The 1st fight with WS was better yeah, but it had nothing to do with the fact that he wasn't wearing his costume, it was just a more dynamic fight.

Nah, don't worry about that brah I enjoy debating with you, you know we can disagree to extremes and still be cool.

 

[thedopefreshness]

Not at all, RDJ is actually almost tailor made to play Tony Stark, Jackman has had good moments, but he's not near being the Wolverine I know from the comics and cartoons.

We were friends once

 

[GasparZizou]

We were friends once

 

[thedopefreshness]

Alright we can disagree on one thing.

 

[GasparZizou]

Alright we can disagree on one thing.

Phew!

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I may be in the minority here, but I don't think Jackman's performance as Logan needs any sort of strengthening, I see Wolverine in any median and I think Hugh Jackman and vice versa. It's my opinion, and this my come off as sacrilege that Hugh is just as icon in the role of Logan as Reeves was as Superman.

As for his wearing of the mask, I'm not against it, but I want there to be some sort of logic behind it, a purpose for it. So far in the X-Men films the team never had a reason to hide their identities because everyone (the government) knew where and who they were.

if Jackman left tomorrow , I wouldn't care

 

[pturtle]

Let me clarify, when I rant about the X-men movies not being comicbooky enough, I mean the 1st three movies, I think the 1st Class and DOFP are a breed on their own and obviously a bit of a reboot, where they are slowly embracing their superhero heritage, now you have humor in those movies, you have Quick Silver, whom despite not having a comicbook accurate costume (and I'm fine with that) is still shamelessly ridiculous, which despite having like 5 minutes of screen time is a fan favorite highlight, then you also have the sentinels and time-freaking-traveling.

So calling these new X-men movies "grounded" is a bit of a stretch.

Even more, considering the next movie involves a 8 feet 5000 year near omnipotent grey skinned mutant.

Realism or ground should not be a concern when approaching the intrinsic nature of comicbook folklore, it should not be.

The setting and consequences is what makes people believe in them more easily, not diluting what makes these movies comicbook movies to begin with.


Like I said, you can make it believable without taking away the cool costumes, in fact 1st Class, while it may not have the classic costumes, it at least has something similar to the All-new Xmen costumes.

Now, talking apes, talking apes are not nearly anything like superhumans with superpowers, it's far lower in the "ridiculous" scale, so still don't see how the analogy works.

Again, there's no reason to neglect half of the identity of comicbooks when focusing on story and themes, the MCU has action and costumes that are serviceable to the plot.

If they neglect something as simple as the costumes that much, at one point they stop being the X-men and they turn into that "Heroes" TV show.


Yes they have plenty moments where they're shown in regular clothes, but the vast overwhelming majority of the time they are in their X-men uniforms.

And actually, while Wolverine may not need a mask, they're uniforms because they're a team, and many of them have properties that adapt to the powers of their users, even as basic ones as to offer protection because not everyone has a healing factor.

But then we enter the territory of "Spiderman doesn't really need to be red and blue"... And then what's the point of making superhero movies anymore? If you just don't care about the fact that they come from comicbooks....


Not at all, RDJ is actually almost tailor made to play Tony Stark, Jackman has had good moments, but he's not near being the Wolverine I know from the comics and cartoons.

He's almost as off as Bale playing Batman.

Why forced? He needed the protection and the helmet, I feel the X-men movies being that reluctant to embrace their comic book heritage is more forced than that

Yes, it may have over the top moments, that's what happens when you have an all-comicbook villain organization like Hydra Cap2 also has a more relevant theme than DOFP and tackles at moral questions in a more effective way than DOFP.

The 1st fight with WS was better yeah, but it had nothing to do with the fact that he wasn't wearing his costume, it was just a more dynamic fight.

Nah, don't worry about that brah I enjoy debating with you, you know we can disagree to extremes and still be cool.

The franchise is definitely starting to embrace the spectacle of the comics, but what I mean by "grounded” is that Singer tries to incorporate all these fictional elements and make it as believable as possible, no matter how out of this world they might be.

The Amazing Spiderman 2 for example, just went full comic book, villains started naming themselves, obtaining costumes relevant to their name with zero explanation, cracking jokes during serious tension filled moments. The X-Men franchise can’t do that, so everything down to their costumes need to be thoroughly thought out and explained, that makes it a little bit more difficult considering how big the cast is for these films.

I guess I should drop the word grounded, and replace it with” serious”. The X-Men films take themselves quite seriously compared to the rest of the superhero films being made these days. Unlike most other superheroes, the costumes never really seemed necessary, it’s really not important to their character, the properties are though, and for the most part I think the series delivered on that, Cyclops has his visor, Magneto has his helmet, Professor X has his wheelchair, Wolverine has his claws etc… Those are the essential tangible properties that make these characters who they are aside from their powers. Technically the films have introduced costumes for the team, most people just happen to hate it. In the comics, most their suits only serve one purpose, and that purpose isn’t really important at all to their character unlike most other superheroes.

Their motives, personalities, and personal properties make them unique, and separates them from other movies or shows such as Heroes.

Robert Downey has always just been playing himself, yea he’s super smart, has an ego, and was a bit of a womanizer but he never really expresses himself like Tony from the comics, his mannerisms and personality come from Robert Downey, he basically turned the character into an egotistical Spiderman. Hugh’s Wolverine is pretty much accurate to the comic minus a few things, like his height, and he’s a little bit softer, but he makes up for it in his mannerisms and certainly his voice, if it weren’t for his height, I would say he was borderline a perfect Wolverine.

Why forced? He needed the protection and the helmet, I feel the X-men movies being that reluctant to embrace their comic book heritage is more forced than that

Yes, it may have over the top moments, that's what happens when you have an all-comicbook villain organization like Hydra Cap2 also has a more relevant theme than DOFP and tackles at moral questions in a more effective way than DOFP.

The 1st fight with WS was better yeah, but it had nothing to do with the fact that he wasn't wearing his costume, it was just a more dynamic fight.

Nah, don't worry about that brah I enjoy debating with you, you know we can disagree to extremes and still be cool.

I thought the suit was just a replica? Did it actually have any important functions?

If it did then I guess it wasn’t so forced, I just always thought he put it on because “Soldiers suit up”

DOFP themes were a bit restricted considering the source material, I don’t think Singer could really flex his thematic muscles for this film because it had so much going on, but I thought DOFP did a much better job at developing its characters, mainly Charles.

I didn’t enjoy the fight scene based on his civilian attire, I just thought it was a nice change to see Chris Evans be Cap without his suit.

I know we’re cool Gasp, I was just pulling your chain because we rarely debate about anything