Who is the real champion?

[BuffyGirl]

Who do you think is the real champion, Angel or Spike?

I love Angel, very much, but in this case I believe it's Spike.

Even when Spike had no soul he was still capable of being a good person. He still fell in love with a girl who was human and he went looking for his soul.

When Angel was soulless he was pure evil to the core. He could care less about anyone. He would laugh as someone died.

I realize that Angel while ensouled was a good man. He helped the helpless (and charged low 'rats') as much as he could.

But Spike helped even when he was soulless. He did have a chip yes, but he could have made the choice to still be bad, forget the innocent and move on and cry in his crypt. He didn't. He fell for a girl, and he helped. If it was possible with Buffy it could have been possible with another.

This is a guy who when soulless went looking for his soul. Angel would never have done that. He loved having no soul. He loved being bad.

I think that Spike was the true champion of the people. Soulful and soulless.

 

[The Craw]

the difference is that spike wasnt being a "peoples champion" when he was evil. he was just trying to get in buffy's pants.

 

[BuffyGirl]

But his character went thru changes. It was not all about that for him in the end. He was able to change even before a soul. His love for Buffy just got in the way sometimes. He grew so much in such a short time, because of her. he did it for her, but in the end, it was a beneficial thing for all.

 

[Anzik]

In the end Spike was doing it for selfish reasons. Bad Karma.

 

[The Craw]

But his character went thru changes. It was not all about that for him in the end. He was able to change even before a soul. His love for Buffy just got in the way sometimes. He grew so much in such a short time, because of her. he did it for her, but in the end, it was a beneficial thing for all.

im not seeing it. the last thing he did before getting a soul was trying to rape buffy. he was always obsessed with buffy.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

I think Spike loved being evil just as much as Angelus, he just wasn't nearly as good at it. After having his ass handed to him repeatedly by Buffy and getting neutered by that brain chip, he took the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach.

In the end, Spike may have fought the good fight, but it was Angel who not only fought, but inspired others to fight.

 

[The Craw]

yeah even in season 5 of angel when doyle/lindsey is helping spike save people he's still a big dick about it.

 

[The Mike]

All these questions missing their polls....gotta go with Angel in terms of the classic definition of a champion although I liked Spike more.

 

[Murderofcrows71]

Have to go with Angel......Otherwise why give him a spin off series?

 

[Nitro]

Have to go with Angel in this case as well...

 

[BillyBudd]

Spike is the real champion.

Angel has done some pretty awful things WITH a soul. For example, he walked away and allowed demons (vampires, I think) to kill a bunch of the Wolfram and Hart employees. I can't remember for sure, but I think he even locked them in. That's just one example.

Spike is kind of a jerk, but now that he has a soul, when it comes time to act, he pretty much always does what is right.

 

[Anzik]

Those were lawyers so technically Angel was doing a good deed for humanity.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

Spike is the real champion.

Angel has done some pretty awful things WITH a soul. For example, he walked away and allowed demons (vampires, I think) to kill a bunch of the Wolfram and Hart employees. I can't remember for sure, but I think he even locked them in. That's just one example.

Spike is kind of a jerk, but now that he has a soul, when it comes time to act, he pretty much always does what is right.

That's because Spike is a follower. He sits back and waits for others to do the right thing and then follows suit. When you're a leader fighting a war, sometimes you have to do distasteful things. Angel doesn't have the luxury of running in after all the dirty work's been done.

 

[Anzik]

Angel DID get the soul first.

Copycat.

 

[The Craw]

Angel DID get the soul first.

Copycat.

well technically he didnt "get" his soul. it was forced on him.

 

[Anzik]

Touche. He HAD a soul first.

 

[Badism]

In the end Spike was doing it for selfish reasons. Bad Karma.

im not seeing it. the last thing he did before getting a soul was trying to rape buffy. he was always obsessed with buffy.

It was because that event that he seeked his soul. He wanted to understand why it was wrong what he tried to do buffy, why it hurt her. People forget, he was evil, he had no choice about it...EVIL. All he knew when he went into that bathroom was that buffy would resist then give in and have sex with him, just like before.

He sought his soul to become good for buffy and to be a real person. No other Vampire in history ever wanted to be anything other then a souless evil monster, including Angelus.

Spike was special.

That being said Angel is good person and true champion. Maybe after Spike has had his soul for 100 years he too will become a true champion. People seem to think Angel was in that ally eating rats, being tortured by his soul for 90 years. He was not. He did find a sort of peace for most of the 20th century and led a somewhat normal existence. It wasn't until he had that moment of weakness and fed off that dead diner clerk that he became the tortured "stink guy"

Give Spike some time. He's only had his soul a couple of years.

 

[Bradlee_scott]

Spike's a tool, Angel rules!

Angel, obviously. For one, the term champion was coined on Angel. Two-Spike was just a lovesick pup, that's why he did all those things on the side of right, just to be Buffy's bit*h.

 

[Badism]

Spike's a tool, Angel rules!

Angel, obviously. For one, the term champion was coined on Angel. Two-Spike was just a lovesick pup, that's why he did all those things on the side of right, just to be Buffy's bit*h.

You, obviously are a Spike hater and missed the entire point of his character journey.

 

[Bradlee_scott]

I proudly admit it. I understand he had a journey and whatnot and I know I am leaning hardcore Angel, but the way I see it is Angel is the original. He had a soul before it was fashionable, and he was the original champion. That's just how I see it.

And I am not a Spike hater. I can appreciate his journey, but I just prefer to ignore the season 5 and 6 spike. It made me sick. He lost all of the things I loved about him.