Star Wars: The Canon Reloaded

[Mad Old Lu]

Wow. When I learn stuff like this, I can't help but wonder what percentage of Lucas just didn't give a **** anymore when he was coming up with post-OT stories. If we were to take all of the discarded ideas of his for PT and ST stories (especially whichever ones we don't even know about) and make a list, the wtf factor would be epic!

I could be wrong, but I just get the sense that his inspiration post-ROTJ was never actually truly authentic and genuine whenever he'd go back to SW after that. I don't know why he couldn't just embrace having someone else tell the stories. Or at the very least, have people just pitch stories so that he could still choose the overall direction without forcing himself to generate specific ideas that he doesn't seem to have really been genuinely inspired to come up with himself.

I don't understand why he didn't do this either. His general ideas about the overall plot were ok (not great, but merely ok), but in the hands of a real screenwriter, it would have gotten fleshed out into something greater. Of course, George is known to be stubborn about certain ideas of his (judging from the 3 Rinzler SW books and even the IJ book), so maybe some of his more asinine concepts would have gotten through regardless. It definitely would have helped, though, and I'm sure there would have been a line out the door to volunteer for the screenwriter job for free even!

Yeah. I know you hate Solo but remember we were *this* close to George saying that Han's official backstory was that he was a feral kid raised by Chewie on Kashyyyk.

Which of course would been a complete retcon of everything official and unofficial stated about Han's past prior to that. Thank God he left the door open for someone to do it properly (IMO.)

Ugh, I had forgotten about that.

A few years ago I read the Darth Plagueis book where they explain Anakin's conception. I don't remember the details exactly, but it was something about Plagueis doing experiments with midi-chlorians trying to find a way to become immortal and that Anakin was unintentionally and accidentally conceived from that. Palps didn't even know it had happened until Anakin was discovered by QuiGon, and concluded it must have been the experiments that gave him life. Not much better of an explanation, IMO. I don't know why GL had to open that door of an immaculate conception besides the obvious biblical parallel (which doesn't really hold up either). Just make him a random guy who happens to be strong with the force. The whole Skywalker lineage thing doesn't make sense anyway since Jedi are not supposed to breed. It's not like Yoda had powerful Jedi as parents. Or Obi Wan. Or Qui Gon. Or even Palps himself!

 

[ajp4mgs]

A few years ago I read the Darth Plagueis book where they explain Anakin's conception. I don't remember the details exactly, but it was something about Plagueis doing experiments with midi-chlorians trying to find a way to become immortal and that Anakin was unintentionally and accidentally conceived from that. Palps didn't even know it had happened until Anakin was discovered by QuiGon, and concluded it must have been the experiments that gave him life. Not much better of an explanation, IMO.

I think that explanation is still better than having Palpatine be Anakin's creator. But it's still marred by the inexplicable new focus on this microbiotic element to the Force. Once you get into midichlorians and microscopic beings (the Whills, or whatever) who might even be guiding and shaping destiny . . . that undermines so much of what is appealing about SW stories! So why go there!?

That direction for the saga would turn Luke, Leia, Yoda, Kenobi, etc. all into mere vessels of the Force (aka the "Whills" and midichlorians). None of their achievements and sacrifices would have come about as a product of their individual fortitude and virtues. That's crazy to me! If Luke Skywalker uses the Force, that has a lot more appeal to me than the Force using Luke Skywalker. And then you have the logic problem of Plagueis manipulating things in a way that defies the premise of the Whills (or whatever microbiotic nonsense) being the guiding living embodiment of the Force. Just a mess.

Sometimes less is more. Keeping things fairly vague about the Force in the OT was perfect. It allows for mysticism that fans can wonder about and theorize over, while preserving the individual virtues and achievements of the characters as being their own. I don't know how or why Lucas started to stray from that. I, for one, am relieved that the ST didn't turn into GL's playground for off-the-wall explanations for what was behind all of the happenings that we grew up with. I just need JJ to keep that stuff out for one more episode, without allowing absurdly bizarre concepts to undermine everything prior. Then, they can do whatever nonsense they want with the franchise.

I don't know why GL had to open that door of an immaculate conception besides the obvious biblical parallel (which doesn't really hold up either). Just make him a random guy who happens to be strong with the force. The whole Skywalker lineage thing doesn't make sense anyway since Jedi are not supposed to breed. It's not like Yoda had powerful Jedi as parents. Or Obi Wan. Or Qui Gon. Or even Palps himself!

Absolutely! I don't get why fans suddenly feel like every powerful Force user needs to have some family connection to the Force. When Mace Windu was introduced as an exceptionally powerful Jedi, I didn't ask who his parents were. I never wondered about Kenobi's lineage. Now, you'd think from all of the objections to Rey that every powerful Jedi ever would have only been so by way of heritage. That makes no sense!

 

[xipotec]

I think that explanation is still better than having Palpatine be Anakin's creator. But it's still marred by the inexplicable new focus on this microbiotic element to the Force. Once you get into midichlorians and microscopic beings (the Whills, or whatever) who might even be guiding and shaping destiny . . . that undermines so much of what is appealing about SW stories! So why go there!?

That direction for the saga would turn Luke, Leia, Yoda, Kenobi, etc. all into mere vessels of the Force (aka the "Whills" and midichlorians). None of their achievements and sacrifices would have come about as a product of their individual fortitude and virtues. That's crazy to me! If Luke Skywalker uses the Force, that has a lot more appeal to me than the Force using Luke Skywalker. And then you have the logic problem of Plagueis manipulating things in a way that defies the premise of the Whills (or whatever microbiotic nonsense) being the guiding living embodiment of the Force. Just a mess.

Sometimes less is more. Keeping things fairly vague about the Force in the OT was perfect. It allows for mysticism that fans can wonder about and theorize over, while preserving the individual virtues and achievements of the characters as being their own. I don't know how or why Lucas started to stray from that. I, for one, am relieved that the ST didn't turn into GL's playground for off-the-wall explanations for what was behind all of the happenings that we grew up with. I just need JJ to keep that stuff out for one more episode, without allowing absurdly bizarre concepts to undermine everything prior. Then, they can do whatever nonsense they want with the franchise.



Absolutely! I don't get why fans suddenly feel like every powerful Force user needs to have some family connection to the Force. When Mace Windu was introduced as an exceptionally powerful Jedi, I didn't ask who his parents were. I never wondered about Kenobi's lineage. Now, you'd think from all of the objections to Rey that every powerful Jedi ever would have only been so by way of heritage. That makes no sense!

It does if you look at it as from people who cannot accept a girl being more powerful than Vader or Palpatine....

They cant accept a random new GIRL being more powerful than Luke, Vader or Palps.....




Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[ajp4mgs]

It does if you look at it as from people who cannot accept a girl being more powerful than Vader or Palpatine....

They cant accept a random new GIRL being more powerful than Luke, Vader or Palps.....




Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

Nah, I give SW fans more credit than that. I like to think that the objections to Rey are rooted strictly in SW context. It's just that I can't fully understand what logic they're using to object to her if she's not a Skywalker (or a Kenobi, etc.). The Jedi were supposed to be powerful long before Skywalkers, or the idea that heritage is what determines how powerful a Jedi can be. Stands to reason that there could be more powerful ones after (or without) Skywalkers too.

 

[Prime Clone]

Damn, that'd be some real long-range thinking there; and with some incredibly accurate foresight too! What a shame that Palpatine's foresight would've diminished so much by the time of ROTJ.

Well, everything *was* proceeding exactly as he had foreseen!

That direction for the saga would turn Luke, Leia, Yoda, Kenobi, etc. all into mere vessels of the Force (aka the "Whills" and midichlorians). None of their achievements and sacrifices would have come about as a product of their individual fortitude and virtues.

Guess that's what Qui-Gon was banging out about with the "will of The Force".

It's just that I can't fully understand what logic they're using to object to her if she's not a Skywalker (or a Kenobi, etc.).

For me it's because the core saga of nine episodes is supposed to be about three generations of Skywalkers. If Rey is the main character of the ST, and she's not somehow part of the bloodline, she bucks that trend.

A few years ago I read the Darth Plagueis book where they explain Anakin's conception. I don't remember the details exactly, but it was something about Plagueis doing experiments with midi-chlorians trying to find a way to become immortal and that Anakin was unintentionally and accidentally conceived from that.

Thanks, I always assumed it was intentional, as revenge on Palps or something.

 

[Prime Clone]

Okay, even us prequel and sequel apologists still like the OT best. So this comic series should be even more popular than Age of Republic:

 

[The Autistic Asexual]

Jyn Erso is so much more relatable and likable than Rey just by looks alone. Rey has a certain meanness in her face whereas Jyn radiates sort of a vulnerable wholesomeness while at the same time being sort of a badass. Jyn also actually goes through a character arc. First she starts off as a fragile child, then when we see her next she's cynical and then she summons a sense of selflessness and wanting to save the galaxy. Rogue One is all about sacrifice. It's not heavy in character development but that's a moot point. It's a war film that centers around the collective rather than the individual. Why can't people see that I wonder.

 

[Khev]

TNT showed RO yesterday and then right as the end credits began they cut them off and immediately rolled into ANH. Those two films connect about as well as you could possibly hope for given the 39 year gap between filming. Watching the Scarif battle and then continuing right into ANH gave a whole new level of gravitas to the moment when the Falcon finally touches down on Yavin IV with such a hard earned cargo.

 

[DarkChocobi]

Okay, even us prequel and sequel apologists still like the OT best. So this comic series should be even more popular than Age of Republic:

Hmm this poster makes me want to order that new Sideshow Jabba right now...such temptation, must resit.

 

[Prime Clone]

Here's a list of the biggest reveals in the comics so far (though No.20 has been hosed down by the LSG): https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-revelations-marvel-comics/

 

[Khev]

Here's a list of the biggest reveals in the comics so far (though No.20 has been hosed down by the LSG): https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-revelations-marvel-comics/

I don't know that I consider Palpatine manipulating midichlorians to create Anakin as being a new revelation per se (didn't we all assume that that was the point of his whole speech in the opera way back in 2005?) but I do like that it's officially, um, "official," lol.

In fact I've actually got my own head canon that really reconciles all of Palpatine's plans and actions from the PT into a very acceptable segue into the OT that may have been what George intended all along. Well, all of his actions outside of whatever goofy thing the whole Syfo-Dias bit was supposed to be, lol.

 

[Prime Clone]

Yes, Syfo-Dias remains sadly unexplained.

 

[matticus]

 

[ajp4mgs]

Yes, Syfo-Dias remains sadly unexplained.

But only unexplained in the movies. I think they did a decent job of fleshing it all out in The Clone Wars animated series (which is technically "canon"). The Sifo-Dyas episode in that last season was one of the few that I actually enjoyed.

For those who haven't seen it: when Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi Master and member of the Council, he had foreseen a great conflict that would threaten the Republic. The Jedi Council deemed his proposed ideas/solutions too extreme, so he went ahead and had a clone army created without the Council's consent or knowledge. Dooku then had Sifo-Dyas ambushed and killed, and took over his role in advancing the clone army project (on behalf of Sidious).

The Jedi discovered the whole plot to murder Sifo-Dyas in that episode, and learned that Dooku (and his master) were the ones advancing the clone army. Obi-Wan and Anakin also learn that Dooku was the "Darth Tyranus" that Obi-Wan was told about in AOTC, before the three of them have a lightsaber duel rematch.

 

[Prime Clone]

Thanks ajp4mgs, yeah I suspected that particular loose end had been tied up in TCW.

 

[xipotec]

Yes, Syfo-Dias remains sadly unexplained.

Nope, he was explained last season of clone wars....


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[ajp4mgs]

The latest SW novel ("Master & Apprentice") finally puts the actual wording for the prophecy of the Chosen One into canon. It goes: "A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."

In the story, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan discover other prophecies as well. What's weird to me is that Anakin would seem to fit one of the other ones too: "One will ascend to the highest of the Jedi despite the foreboding of those who would serve with him." I wonder if this means that the prophecy of the "Chosen One" will actually end up referring to someone else. Maybe Kylo wasn't actually Han's kid. Or . . . since Anakin obviously didn't restore "ultimate balance in the Force," the phrase "through him" could mean his offspring (Luke) would.

Here are the other prophecies revealed in the novel (and who/what I think they refer to in red font):

• "She who will be born to darkness will give birth to darkness." (Leia)
• "When the kyber that is not kyber shines forth, the time of prophecy will be at hand." (I have no idea who might have a lightsaber with fake kyber crystal)
• "When the righteous lose the light, evil once dead shall return." (When Luke goes into exile, the FO rises)
• "Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless." (Order 66 sacrificed many Jedi; the nameless would be the clones; the sin would have been of Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas in having them created)
• "The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire." (Could be referring to the Sith returning in TPM; or maybe we'll learn in TROS that the "egg" is the Death Star, and an evil was unleashed when it cracked?)
• "When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine." (I think this will be the ending of TROS)
• "He who learns to conquer death will through his greatest student live again." (Could be one of these three: 1. Plagueis through Palpatine, 2. Palptaine through Vader - perhaps through Vader's mask in the ST?, or 3. Qui-Gon through Obi-Wan)

That's it.

 

[xipotec]

The latest SW novel ("Master & Apprentice") finally puts the actual wording for the prophecy of the Chosen One into canon. It goes: "A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."

In the story, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan discover other prophecies as well. What's weird to me is that Anakin would seem to fit one of the other ones too: "One will ascend to the highest of the Jedi despite the foreboding of those who would serve with him." I wonder if this means that the prophecy of the "Chosen One" will actually end up referring to someone else. Maybe Kylo wasn't actually Han's kid. Or . . . since Anakin obviously didn't restore "ultimate balance in the Force," the phrase "through him" could mean his offspring (Luke) would.

Here are the other prophecies revealed in the novel (and who/what I think they refer to in red font):

• "She who will be born to darkness will give birth to darkness." (Leia)
• "When the kyber that is not kyber shines forth, the time of prophecy will be at hand." (I have no idea who might have a lightsaber with fake kyber crystal)
• "When the righteous lose the light, evil once dead shall return." (When Luke goes into exile, the FO rises)
• "Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless." (Order 66 sacrificed many Jedi; the nameless would be the clones; the sin would have been of Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas in having them created)
• "The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire." (Could be referring to the Sith returning in TPM; or maybe we'll learn in TROS that the "egg" is the Death Star, and an evil was unleashed when it cracked?)
• "When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine." (I think this will be the ending of TROS)
• "He who learns to conquer death will through his greatest student live again." (Could be one of these three: 1. Plagueis through Palpatine, 2. Palptaine through Vader - perhaps through Vader's mask in the ST?, or 3. Qui-Gon through Obi-Wan)

That's it.

Last one could be Luke.....


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[The Autistic Asexual]

Random Star Wars prequel thought: The clones in the prequels should've looked like the very first prototype Boba Fett with the white helmet and the three nozzles on the mouth of the mask.

 

[Prime Clone]

Good call, though I'm happy with the trooper evolution we got.

Clan Wren recalled that design in Rebels (which recycled numerous other McQuarrie designs):