Sideshow Sold Out!

[risingstar]

What's a day on a hobby forum without talk of a conspiracy?

 

[traylorc]

Thank you for the serious post, I appreciate it. I agree with you that there MAY be a marketing game going on, i just wanted to see if anyone else noticed it. The conclusion that i wanted to come to is that this practice is ultimately hurting the real collector. If a company can get its product to a price way about cost, then it will hurt the collector. The collector fears that they should get it before the price skyrockets like previous ones, but the price is already high from the manipulated market price. The price should come down if the stock is still there, like it was when they gave 50 percent discounts on products a year or so ago, but we wouldn't know because we don't know whats in their inventory. The collector ultimately pays more, and if this selling practice doesn't work and the company has to drop the price, the resale value also goes down for the collector.

Marvelcollector....have you just NOW come to the conclusion that businesses do everything in their power to maximize their bottom lines? Are you really surprised that SS employs the same old marketing techniques and business strategies that have been employed for decades?

I am a firm believer in our market based system. Companies like SS and Bowen are free to charge as much as they like for their products. If SS is charging too much for their product, consumers will purchase less...particularly in this economy. I don't look unfavorably upon any company for aggressively marketing or pricing their products as long as they do so within the confines of the law. The goal for any for profit business is to maximize your profits, and if that means you employ a "Sold Out, jump on our wait list" marketing strategy then so be it. We have a number of very bright folks who frequent this board and understand SS's game and play it accordingly. Most of us understand that SS employs the "sold out" marketing strategy to entice us to jump on the wait list. If you really want to make sure you get a chance to purchase all SS products, sign up for the newsletter and jump on the pre-orders when they go live. SS generally gives a week or more notice for pre-orders before they go up.

Regarding your argument that the collector gets hurt...please. Nobody is putting a gun to your head or my head and forcing us to buy collectibles. These are discretionary / luxury purchases. Let's not act like SS is selling some sort of crucial vaccine that saves lives.

IMHO I do not believe SS cares about resale value/prices for their products or they how impact collectors. Sideshow's primary concern is not the secondary market...why? Once they sell their product directly to the end user or to various vendors they have their money. If you sell one of your SS collectibles on E-bay, how much does SS profit directly from that transaction?? The cash is exchanged between you and the buyer. SS doesn't get a piece of that transaction. Therefore they are not going to lose a great deal of sleep about values of their product in the secondary market. SS may receive some indirect benefit from secondary sales. If I buy my first SS collectible from someone on e-bay may I become a SS customer for life and start buying directly from them. But still SS has no say in the secondary market, they cannot control prices in the secondary market, and it's hard to gauge the benefits they receive from the secondary market.

 

[Corrose]

well said

 

[p!tu]

Marvelcollector....have you just NOW come to the conclusion that businesses do everything in their power to maximize their bottom lines? Are you really surprised that SS employs the same old marketing techniques and business strategies that have been employed for decades?

I am a firm believer in our market based system. Companies like SS and Bowen are free to charge as much as they like for their products. If SS is charging too much for their product, consumers will purchase less...particularly in this economy. I don't look unfavorably upon any company for aggressively marketing or pricing their products as long as they do so within the confines of the law. The goal for any for profit business is to maximize your profits, and if that means you employ a "Sold Out, jump on our wait list" marketing strategy then so be it. We have a number of very bright folks who frequent this board and understand SS's game and play it accordingly. Most of us understand that SS employs the "sold out" marketing strategy to entice us to jump on the wait list. If you really want to make sure you get a chance to purchase all SS products, sign up for the newsletter and jump on the pre-orders when they go live. SS generally gives a week or more notice for pre-orders before they go up.

Regarding your argument that the collector gets hurt...please. Nobody is putting a gun to your head or my head and forcing us to buy collectibles. These are discretionary / luxury purchases. Let's not act like SS is selling some sort of crucial vaccine that saves lives.

IMHO I do not believe SS cares about resale value/prices for their products or they how impact collectors. Sideshow's primary concern is not the secondary market...why? Once they sell their product directly to the end user or to various vendors they have their money. If you sell one of your SS collectibles on E-bay, how much does SS profit directly from that transaction?? The cash is exchanged between you and the buyer. SS doesn't get a piece of that transaction. Therefore they are not going to lose a great deal of sleep about values of their product in the secondary market. SS may receive some indirect benefit from secondary sales. If I buy my first SS collectible from someone on e-bay may I become a SS customer for life and start buying directly from them. But still SS has no say in the secondary market, they cannot control prices in the secondary market, and it's hard to gauge the benefits they receive from the secondary market.

This Post is to intelligent for Marvelcollector.

 

[Hulksmashed]

It looks like every time sideshow puts up a marvel premium format or comiquette, it always sells out on the first day or shortly after. This wouldn't be a big deal but then i noticed it will reappear when it starts shipping. I know that there are cancellations and so forth, but are they doing this just to get us to get on the wait list?

We don't have much time to consider purchasing the item before it states that its sold out. We think we missed our chance and get on the wait list, and then when its shipping, surprise, guess who's getting a wait list reservation converted to an order.

I've seen them do it with the exclusive for emma forst, gambit, and sabretooth. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it for ms. marvel, she-hulk, and black cat.

First...you do realize you can cancel a wait list reservation right?

Second, why would Sideshow do anything "just to get us on the wait list"? A wait list is a convenience to the buyer, but a bit more of a hassle to the seller. That's like saying "I notice Sideshow ships a lot of damaged items...are they doing that just so they can send us replacement parts?

Granted, "sold out" might generate a bit of interest in the piece, and it disables your ability to use rewards points...but dude...if that IS what they are doing....more power to em for trying to make some money...

Don't be so defensive about sideshow. I am just pointing out something that i noticed about sideshow. I love it when my wait list reservation got converted to an order, but i didn't like the time in between when i wanted the exclusive and it was only being sold on other sites, including ebay, for a lot more.

It takes you a "day or shortly there after" to decide if a piece that was previewed a week earlier is something you want? Here's an idea....pre-order it as soon as it goes up for sale. Then...if later your decide you DON'T want it...you can cancel...that way you could avoid sideshows ingenious wait list trap.....

 

[marvelcollector]

traylorc...Thank you for your post. This thread was intended to discuss a possible business practice that i have noticed and how it affects the collector community in its buying and re-selling.

To say that a for profit business will do what it can to increase profits is inherent to any for profit business and doesn't need to be mentioned. The topic for discussion is your view on the practice as a collector. I wanted to simply bring to discussion that this practice may be affecting the pricing of the products and hurting the second hand market. You said, "I do not believe SS cares about resale value/prices for their products or they how impact collectors.", but they are making a product that is intended for collectors. I don't believe they should be trying to get as much out of us as they can, especially now in this economy.

Collectors expect their products to increase in value over time but the initial buyer is paying a high price already, and then if they need to sell it they usually have a hard time just breaking even. I have bought a lot from collectors who are just trying to break even for what they paid for it, and they are thankful because they were able to avoid taxes, fees, and shipping charges. You said, " Sideshow's primary concern is not the secondary market", but they should be concerned about the resale of their products. They do keep watch on it and i believe that this maybe why they use the sold out practice. This will influence us to buy it now while we can still get it before it goes up in price.

Its surprising how many people agree with you that a company should charge whatever they want for a product because their the ones paying for it. I love collecting, its my hobby, but i don't want to have to spend 300 on every piece that i get, when in fact it may not cost anywhere near that much to product. I would say that the majority of the people who buy from SS are working middle class, and 300 is a lot. I want to continuing collecting but i don't want the prices to be inflated by an unfair business practice.

I look forward to your response and anyone else who can offer a point of view on the matter. Please don't post on here just to bash someone like p!tu. He said the post was to intelligent but offered nothing to the discussion. I would like to hear from people who can actually think about the topic.

 

[devilof76]

...but they are making a product that is intended for collectors. I don't believe they should be trying to get as much out of us as they can, especially now in this economy.

Do you believe that the collectors should be getting as much out of Sideshow as they can?

 

[tnaig001]

Thank you for the serious post, I appreciate it. I agree with you that there MAY be a marketing game going on, i just wanted to see if anyone else noticed it. The conclusion that i wanted to come to is that this practice is ultimately hurting the real collector. If a company can get its product to a price way about cost, then it will hurt the collector. The collector fears that they should get it before the price skyrockets like previous ones, but the price is already high from the manipulated market price. The price should come down if the stock is still there, like it was when they gave 50 percent discounts on products a year or so ago, but we wouldn't know because we don't know whats in their inventory. The collector ultimately pays more, and if this selling practice doesn't work and the company has to drop the price, the resale value also goes down for the collector.

Only the flippers and those looking to turn a profit are likely to get caught out and they deserve it IMHO..

Buy what you want. Be decisive and firm. If you do that no ploy will work. Why blame factors beyond our control when the factors within our control are not acted upon.

 

[traylorc]

I wanted to simply bring to discussion that this practice may be affecting the pricing of the products and hurting the second hand market. You said, "I do not believe SS cares about resale value/prices for their products or they how impact collectors.", but they are making a product that is intended for collectors. I don't believe they should be trying to get as much out of us as they can, especially now in this economy.

Why shouldn't SS or any other business do everything possible to increase their bottom line? That is the mantra of every for profit business. As collectors we should not expect some sort of preferential treatment.

We keep overlooking simple economics...if SS pricing practices are deemed excessive in today's market revenues, margins, and profits will all be negatively impacted. If SS's pricing policies are out of line, the market will correct itself. In a tough economy, the first cuts to the average individual's budget are discretionary/luxury purchases. Given the fact that SS has introduced numerous product offerings in the 4th quarter of this year and 1st quarter 2011 it would appear there is still a fairly strong market for collectibles.

Before posting a reply to your most recent comments, I was reading the 102 page thread on the $500 Iron Man Mark VI maquette. We have people spending $500 for one statue....even when the economy is still craptastic. Why wouldn't you expect SS to try and "get as much out of us as they can"? Why would you expect SS to charge less than $500 when there are consumers willing to pay that much? In my opinion, you expect SS to operate as a not-for profit entity.

Collectors expect their products to increase in value over time but the initial buyer is paying a high price already, and then if they need to sell it they usually have a hard time just breaking even.

Not everyone expects their products to increase in value over time. Personally I engage in this hobby because I am a superhero / sci fi / movie geek who likes looking and collecting statues and figures. I have no problem with other folks who expect their purchases to increase over time. However, whether or not that occurs is not Sideshow's concern. Sideshow's concern is selling products in the direct market...period. They are not wasting their time or resources wondering whether or not the Dr. Doom PF is now going for $1,100 or $1,500 on e-bay. I'm sure they are happy that collectors love the piece, but whether or not the value of the aforementioned PF has increased or not is major point of emphasis. Getting you to buy the next Dr. Doom product, getting you to buy the impending Hulk Comiquette or Thanos Diorama is where their focus lies as a company.

You said, " Sideshow's primary concern is not the secondary market", but they should be concerned about the resale of their products. They do keep watch on it and i believe that this maybe why they use the sold out practice. This will influence us to buy it now while we can still get it before it goes up in price.

Or maybe SS uses the sold out marketing practice because doing so directly influences sales in the direct market. Again, I'm sure SS management is happy that collectors are interested in their products in the secondary market. If nothing else it's flattering, because it means that people like your product. But as I mentioned earlier, SS focus is sales in the direct market....they can control the direct market, the majority of their profits come from the direct market, they can track the profitability of any given product line sold in the direct market. SS cannot control how much the Dr. Doom PF sells for on e-bay, more importantly they probably won't see a direct return for that sale on the secondary market. So again, why would SS be so concerned about the secondary market? Business 101 tip....worry about what you can directly control. Everything else is a waste of time and resources.

Its surprising how many people agree with you that a company should charge whatever they want for a product because their the ones paying for it. I love collecting, its my hobby, but i don't want to have to spend 300 on every piece that i get, when in fact it may not cost anywhere near that much to product. I would say that the majority of the people who buy from SS are working middle class, and 300 is a lot. I want to continuing collecting but i don't want the prices to be inflated by an unfair business practice.

So...Sideshow should not charge what the market will allow, because this is your hobby? The rules of capitalism do not apply to you because because this is your hobby??? Every other consumer has to live buy the rules of supply and demand, but Sideshow customers should be given a break?? I'm sorry...I'm following that logic at all. If you are concerned regarding rising prices of Sideshow's products, I have no problem with that. If you are concerned about your ability to be able to continue this hobby in the near future, I understand that. What I do not understand is any argument that based on the premise that somehow a business selling a luxury product should not be allowed to maximize profitability. That's the beauty of our capitalistic society, if you have a product or service that people crave and demand then you are allowed to charge what the market will bear within the confines the law.

I understand that many collectors are working & middle class folks. Those same middle class folks are dropping $500 on the latest Iron Man statue. For a number of "working class" folks $500 represents almost two car payments, or half of their mortgage payment, their rent for the month, a sizable chunk of their other monthly bills.

I do not want to imply that everyone is on board with the price of that Iron Man statue...personally I think it's too much. However there are number of folks who had no problem with the price of that maquette or Sideshow's policy of declaring an item as being sold out.

Before we crucify SS or any other business for charging a supposed premium for their products, shouldn't we direct some of this "angst" towards the consumers that continue to buy SS products? Let's be honest, as consumers we set the market. When SS charges $500 for an Iron Man maquette, and $400 for Hulk & Spider Man comiquettes, or $5,000 for a Bronze Boba Fett statue....and as consumers we agree to pay those prices....then we are telling SS your prices and marketing practices are acceptable.

Lastly, you state that you don't want to have to spend $300 on a piece when it supposedly doesn't cost that much to produce. Then don't pay it. Again, collectibles represent discretionary purchases. These are not "must have items". This isn't food, medicine, gasoline, or clothes. These are discretionary purchases that we can live without. I feel fortunate to be able to make these purchases. And to be honest, I do not lose a bit of sleep worrying about SS' practice of declaring things as sold out. It's a blatant marketing ploy....it's a game. And if we don't like it, we can always go to that secondary market you love so much. Let's stop acting as if we are victims of some sort of huge Sideshow conspiracy.

 

[marvelcollector]

Do you believe that the collectors should be getting as much out of Sideshow as they can?

I think that the prices should be a little more affordable. What are SS's overhead? i can understand a piece like the abomination PF being expensive because its gigantic and has a lot of detail, but why are we spending 300 on wolverine?

I would love to buy what i want tnaig001 but are the prices being manipulate? There might be more to it. I think people should consider it though.

 

[devilof76]

Why you are spending $300 on Wolverine isn't a question that Sideshow needs to be asked.

 

[King Darkness]

Why shouldn't SS or any other business do everything possible to increase their bottom line? That is the mantra of every for profit business. As collectors we should not expect some sort of preferential treatment.

We keep overlooking simple economics...if SS pricing practices are deemed excessive in today's market revenues, margins, and profits will all be negatively impacted. If SS's pricing policies are out of line, the market will correct itself. In a tough economy, the first cuts to the average individual's budget are discretionary/luxury purchases. Given the fact that SS has introduced numerous product offerings in the 4th quarter of this year and 1st quarter 2011 it would appear there is still a fairly strong market for collectibles.

Before posting a reply to your most recent comments, I was reading the 102 page thread on the $500 Iron Man Mark VI maquette. We have people spending $500 for one statue....even when the economy is still craptastic. Why wouldn't you expect SS to try and "get as much out of us as they can"? Why would you expect SS to charge less than $500 when there are consumers willing to pay that much? In my opinion, you expect SS to operate as a not-for profit entity.



Not everyone expects their products to increase in value over time. Personally I engage in this hobby because I am a superhero / sci fi / movie geek who likes looking and collecting statues and figures. I have no problem with other folks who expect their purchases to increase over time. However, whether or not that occurs is not Sideshow's concern. Sideshow's concern is selling products in the direct market...period. They are not wasting their time or resources wondering whether or not the Dr. Doom PF is now going for $1,100 or $1,500 on e-bay. I'm sure they are happy that collectors love the piece, but whether or not the value of the aforementioned PF has increased or not is major point of emphasis. Getting you to buy the next Dr. Doom product, getting you to buy the impending Hulk Comiquette or Thanos Diorama is where their focus lies as a company.



Or maybe SS uses the sold out marketing practice because doing so directly influences sales in the direct market. Again, I'm sure SS management is happy that collectors are interested in their products in the secondary market. If nothing else it's flattering, because it means that people like you product. But as I mentioned earlier, SS focus is sales in the direct market....they can control the direct market, the majority of their profits come from the direct market, they can track the profitability of any given product line sold in the direct market. SS cannot control how much the Dr. Doom PF sells for on e-bay, more importantly they probably won't see a direct return for that sale on the secondary market. So again, why would SS be so concerned about the secondary market? Business 101 tip....worry about what you can directly control. Everything else is a waste of time and resources.



So...Sideshow should not charge what the market will allow, because this is your hobby? The rules of capitalism do not apply to you because because this is your hobby??? Every other consumer has to live buy the rules of supply and demand, but Sideshow customers should be given a break?? I'm sorry...I'm following that logic at all.

I understand that many collectors are working & middle class folks. Those same middle class folks are dropping $500 on the latest Iron Man statue. For a number of "working class" folks $500 represents almost two car payments, or half of their mortgage payment, their rent for the month, a sizable chunk of their other monthly bills. I do not want to imply that everyone is on board with the price of that Iron Man statue...personally I think it's too much. But there are number of folks who had no problem with the price and made the purchase.

So before we crucify SS or any other business for charging a supposed premium for their product, shouldn't we direct some of this "angst" towards the consumers that continue to buy SS products? Let's be honest, as consumers we set the market. So when SS charges $500 for Iron Man, and $400 for Hulk, or $5,000 for a Bronze Boba Fett statue....and as consumers we agree to pay those prices....then we are telling SS your prices are acceptable.

Lastly, you state that you don't want to have to spend $300 on a piece when it supposedly doesn't cost that much to produce. Then don't pay it. Again, collectibles represent discretionary purchases. These are not "must have items". This isn't food, medicine, gasoline, or clothes. These are discretionary purchases that we can live without. I feel fortunate to be able to make these purchases. And to be honest, I do not lose a bit of sleep worrying about SS' practice of declaring things as sold out. It's a blatant marketing ploy....it's a game. And if we don't like it, we can always go to that secondary market you love so much.

Lots of words

Why you are spending $300 on Wolverine isn't a question that Sideshow needs to be asked.

Cleary it is. Shows what you know, pfft

 

[marvelcollector]

traylorc... Please don't get so worked up over the topic. Your made a lot of points. To begin with, i really hate to think of the characters that marvel puts out as a business but in reality it is. We have these characters in the book the have such a high moral code which i like to believe is the point of the stories, but in reality it seems its more about business.

"Why would you expect SS to charge less than $500 when there are consumers willing to pay that much? In my opinion, you expect SS to operate as a not-for profit entity." I don't expect SS to be a not for profit, thats really not what i was saying. I would expect SS, knowing that there is a high demand, to make statues that people are going to purchase more affordable. This is a simple example, but if you make a product that you know people are going to want, then you can offset the price to make it more affordable by making more of them. This is supply and demand. I don't know SS's book, no one does. They could be offering us the best price that they could be, or maybe not.

This may be wrong but lets just say it cost SS 100 to make a single statue. This includes shipping, material and designer cost, ect. Then they make 500 of them. The cost for the entire collection is 50,000. Now lets say they sell it for 300 each. This is 150,000, minus cost, so 100,000. If the demand is there, they can make 1000 and sell for 200 each and still make the same profit. This does seem reasonable since, like you say, their is a bigger market for it. However, making more would allow more people access to the product. I could be completely wrong though. I don't know their books, but the one thing i won't do is argue in support of the high prices. If thats what they have to sell it at to make a profit then go ahead. If i really want it i will buy it.

On the flip side, i guess SS doesn't know if their statues will sell out. This could be a reason they produce the quantities that they do and the practices that they have. I am simply arguing for a better price for collectors. If you want to argue that 500 for a statue is completely justified then you may but i don't, and i really like that IM maquette. The pose is great and its an amazing piece. I just don't want to pay 500 for it. It does state that its sold out on SS, but i can't help but wonder, is it really?

 

[devilof76]

Cleary it is. Shows what you know, pfft

It does? Now everybody knows how massive my knowledge is???

How embarassing.

 

[marvelcollector]

Do you guys work for SS? I feel like theres little support for asking that the statues be more affordable since they constantly sell out.

I just get thrown economics 101 reply's.

 

[King Darkness]

It does? Now everybody knows how massive my knowledge is???

How embarassing.

Its cool though cause you will ALWAYS be smarter than Skiman

Do you guys work for SS? I feel like theres little support for asking that the statues be more affordable since they constantly sell out.

I just get thrown economics 101 reply's.

Not many folks are gonna back you when you are essentially complaining about not wanting to pay the asking price for stuff you don't need. And further pointing an accusatory finger at the company supplying you these items you don't need in the first place.

 

[jye318]

sold out is fake, just find out bullseye, gambit,Sabretooth is in stock now !!

 

[ashkanls]

Do you guys work for SS? I feel like theres little support for asking that the statues be more affordable since they constantly sell out.

I just get thrown economics 101 reply's.

What? Its a business and people are still buying the figures! Why would they drop the price??!!! You dont like the prices, dont buy anything! I dont like some of the prices so it makes me more selective!

 

[devilof76]

Its cool though cause you will ALWAYS be smarter than Skiman

Do you guys work for SS? I feel like theres little support for asking that the statues be more affordable since they constantly sell out.

I just get thrown economics 101 reply's.

Well, they teach Economics 101 so that you don't have to come onto message boards and ask questions that could have been just as easily answered in class.

I've never had an economics class, but I have read Adam Smith, Jean-Baptiste Say, Karl Menger, Frederic Bastiat and Ludwig von Mises. I stay away from Fourier and Marx, so that may be why I'm having trouble sympathizing with your suspicions that there is something underhanded with the way Sideshow does business. I wouldn't mind lower prices, but it's really not my business.

sold out is fake, just find out bullseye, gambit,Sabretooth is in stock now !!

Sold out is sold out. Waitlisted is waitlisted. When the waitlist is closed, the item is sold out. Are we all on the same page now?

 

[marvelcollector]

Your right dark lord, how dare i ask for a cheaper price! How inconsiderate of me to ask for something at a better price. I should just give them whatever they ask and be happy i can do that. Thank you for explaining it to me. You are the worst dark load.