Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Covenant)

[a-dev]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

The Alien wasn't a perfect organism in the first place. How is a giant ***** head and 4 tubes sticking out of the back in any way practical.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

I don't know. I'm not perfect.

 

[RIDDICK]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

It's not perfect at all. People only say it because that's what Ash called it.

- You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility.
- I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

But people forget that he was a crazy android.
Actually, he was a heavily damaged crazy android at the moment.
And don't forget he said that they couldn't kill it, which is complete BS.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

Well now you're backing up your argument with a "well its just a movie" type evidence -- the ultimate 'I give up' excuse.

If you go with the conceit that it was perfect -- at least to human understating -- then one must accept its apparent flaws as some added benefit we are unaware of.

I don't see that it's a 'chicken or egg' thing at all. And I don't see that as evidence you need a Queen.

I think the 'virus' angle -- one alien makes 2 or more, and so on -- is closer to a 'perfect organism' strategy. I don't need an 'origin story'.

Also, who said the alien in A L I E N died at the end. It was blasted into space but I never felt it died. I think its still floating around out there, waiting to attach itself to the next passing freighter.

 

[RIDDICK]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

Well now you're backing up your argument with a "well its just a movie" type evidence -- the ultimate 'I give up' excuse.

It's my first post on the subject.
And I backed my argument with the logic provided by the film itself.
But nope, apparently by doin' so I gave up... on something.

Eh, won't read the rest. No reason to.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

Chicken.

 

[crows]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

No. The egg had to be 'created'. Who's to say it was 'laid'. That's terrestrial thinking.

1st egg could have been created as a weapon. Could be self-generating. Facehugger could be the origin animal. Or it could be something that has evolved for so long it has no beginning. Like... where did humans come from? Someone had to **** to make the first human, right?

There were too many eggs. Thats why they felt like laid eggs

I do agree the idea of a queen is kinda dumb and gross.
I love the queen itself but her laying the eggs is gross.

But those eggs could have been laid by something else.
Even by a regular alien.
They could have come out small and grow.

The eggs could have been vomited by the alien. That would have been more alien in nature.

I like the idea of the creature itself creating the eggs instead of a queen and i dont like the idea of the eggs being created.
The creature needs to duplicate. But every single alien should be able to lay eggs
Not just one queen. It isnt even practical to have one queen.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

But those eggs could have been laid by something else.
Even by a regular alien.
They could have come out small and grow.

But the Queen negates the initial movie where Dallas and Brett dissolve into and become eggs. They become the embryos for the next alien offspring -- thus perhaps another way it can adopt features of the host to survive wherever it is (besides the chestburster growth cycle). That's a very interesting life-cycle and makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. At least theoretically.

Perhaps there's so many eggs because they were built as bio-weapons, just as the humans wanted to do. Or perhaps they were harvested from another planet where the aliens have taken over. The amount of eggs has nothing to do with how they were formed. They could be spores from an alien plant. Who knows? But that's the beauty. The intrigue. To have an answer -- the Queen did it -- just seems trite to me. Like most of Aliens. I like the movie, but it was really dumbed down to cowboys/Indians.

 

[RIDDICK]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

I like the idea of the creature itself creating the eggs instead of a queen and i dont like the idea of the eggs being created. The creature needs to duplicate. But every single alien should be able to lay eggs. Not just one queen. It isnt even practical to have one queen.

It's makes perfect sense for one isolated creature to have an ability to create eggs from biomass (like it did with humans in the first film) and then evolve into a "queen" that can lay eggs by itself when there's enough creatures. It saves the time and makes it more efficient.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

It's makes perfect sense for one isolated creature to have an ability to create eggs from biomass (like it did with humans in the first film) and then evolve into a "queen" that can lay eggs by itself when there's enough creatures. It saves the time and makes it more efficient.

Yes, and that's Cameron's conceit. And of course it could happen that way -- apparently it does in Alien lore now.

But I prefer the direction Ridley started with. I think it was open to so many unique possibilities. The biomechanical history, everything. I don't really like the idea that it was "made by aliens" either, but it is intriguing to consider it a weapon as opposed to an animal... and it does kind of explain the biomechanical aspect. It's like an alien version of Ash, just more deadly and self-replicating.

Anyway, it's all moot. I lose, because that's not where the franchise went. Unless Ridley is going to 'undo' it in Covenant.

 

[theuzi9mm]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

Someone had to lay those eggs

Each one of these hings comes from an egg, right? So who's laying these eggs?

I'm not sure.....it must be something we haven't seen yet.....

It's makes perfect sense for one isolated creature to have an ability to create eggs from biomass (like it did with humans in the first film) and then evolve into a "queen" that can lay eggs by itself when there's enough creatures. It saves the time and makes it more efficient.

my thing with the egg morphing is, on one hand it kinda makes sense, being alien in nature and perfect lifeform and all, BUT if it's such an integral aspect of the overall life cycle of the creature, why cut it out from the original movie?

I understand WHY Scott took it and the rest of that sequence out, because it does throw off the whole pacing of the sequence. Sure Cameron could have used that aspect to explain the higher numbers, but it would have taken a hell of a lot longer time to get everyone killed. Starts with one xeno, who then kills a colonist, uses them as egg fodder and then some other colonist gets facehugged by that, creating another xeno. Seems inefficient going the egg morph route to decimate a colony population. It'd take way too long I think. You'd almost have to eventually have one evolve into an egg laying queen at some point for expedience sake!

 

[BetterThanKenobi83]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

No. The egg had to be 'created'. Who's to say it was 'laid'. That's terrestrial thinking.

1st egg could have been created as a weapon. Could be self-generating. Facehugger could be the origin animal. Or it could be something that has evolved for so long it has no beginning. Like... where did humans come from? Someone had to **** to make the first human, right?

**** its too early for this mind ****ing

 

[BetterThanKenobi83]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

In whether it should be a laid egg or evolved from a sequences of events........I guess I am in the camp of wait and see what Covenant does before making up my mind ? I mean, to me so far the story has been Alien 1 - 3 plus the first two AVP films and the two Predator films. Covenant is basically a prequel to all this so it can go either way for me in liking it or hating it depending on how they execute it.

I do hope it does well though. At least so we could possibly get a R rated Colonial Marines movie.

 

[Victοr]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

Eh, I always took it as an alien version of "who came first, the chicken or the egg". And according to evolution, the egg came first, so there's that. I mean, it makes sense, and it gives a reasoning to "the perfect organism", since the point of evolution is that the organism that has characteristics better suited to its environment, is the one that ultimately survives and thrives. Granted, it's a lot more complex, but you get the gist of it. The presence of a Queen doesn't really disregard that.

 

[olbertfrog]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

From What we saw looks like they are going with the idea that David is the one who is playing with the xeno stuff trying to create the "Perfect organism".
Thats really such a let down, putting men once more in the middle of everything.
The original plan were far more simple, its the first cross between the engineer and the xeno pure form wich was unlike in the movie a White transclucent boneless monster.

Carlos Huante (talking about the development of the Deacon by way of the Ultramorph): The genesis of that character came after a conversation I had with Ridley about a design progression of the creatures to the Xenomorph of the first film. I went home and thought about it but kept on with the Gigeresque Ultramorphs. Then as I worked I thought “wouldn’t it be cool if these Aliens who are born of humans and haven’t been mixed genetically with the Engineers yet would look more human and less biomechanical“, of course this was for a different version of the script but that’s where the Deacon (or Bishop, as he was originally named) came from. He later became an Ultramorph and as the script changed slightly after I left the show, it became that thing at the end. (Carlos was talking about the development of the Deacon by way of the Ultramorph in an interview with ThisBethesdaSea for www.avpgalaxy.net)

Carlos Huante: The Ultramorph - unlike the "Alien" from the first Alien which were covered / or had a exoskeleton, the Ultramorph should still be covered with skin as genetically it is still "New"... and its host are the engineers. it would be an evil variant of the (ANGELS) Engineers. Ultramorphs should still have a regal Quality about them as that quality has been inspired by their host. So, to carry the "No Bones" motif. (Carlos Huante's Prometheus notes)

Carlos Huante: Okay, so instead of the Ultramorphs being clean and skin covered, after some discussion with Ridley and what needs to happen sequentially with the story of how we end up with this "Alien" in the first film. I'm thinking that what if the engineer technology is all that ribbing and boney architecture that's all over the ship and the "Alien" itself. So... the "Aliens" that come out or are born out of the humans should be clean and the skin covered because they are not saturated with the Genetic material of the source (Engineers) yet. So, they are more human looking, the "Ultramorphs" should be the first we see of the boney Exoskeleton on a creature. The engineer tech should form as water (Milky Liquid) that pours unnaturally upward and over them (The Engineers) to form boney plating or ribs, and architectural surfaces. Like they control it at a molecular level.(Carlos Huante's Prometheus notes)

 

[fosing]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

ultramorphin pawer rangers.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

I read the Carlos stuff. Wait so all this stuff is made up...?

 

[rivera2171]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

I see it that the alien life cycle itself is dynamic and adaptable depending on the environment. When the facehugger attaches to the host, it not only pulls genetic information, but also environmental information of the host's habitat and adds that information to the xenomorphs physiology and reproductive cycle.

For example on the Nostromo, the environment was too confined and the crew too few to create an egg laying queen, thus the reproductive cycle in this case was to change the physiology of the captured individual to create an egg. In the case of Hadley's hope, the populous and environment was so large that a dedicated egg laying xenomorph was the best and most efficient biological solution for mass xeno infestation.

If that is true about mixing dna to achieve the biomechanica, that is just lazy storytelling.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

That's giving way too much credit to the facehugger.

Besides, in ALIEN, the facehugger attached inside the derelict ship -- so was it taking environmental info then? -- then it was taken to the Nostromo -- so did it take environmental info now? And what does it do, scan the entire ship to "know" the environment? That just seems like lazy justification.

I don't think the facehugger does much beyond deposit the seed and then keep the host alive long enough for it to gestate. The growing embryo is what determines the adopted biology of the new alien (i.e. the human shape in Kane's case).


The question as to why a Queen is necessary.... well, that's the question. Just to make more aliens faster doesn't seem right to me. I mean, one alien could kill 100 people and make eggs and in a few hours have an army of 100 making 1,000 more. That's not really that slow. And a colony without firepower could easily be wiped out... especially since that's what "the company" wanted (to grow aliens).


Again, not being combative, this is just my opinion.... or preference.

 

[rivera2171]

Re: Prometheus Sequel (ALIEN: Paradise Lost)

I like friendly banter. Actually I mean the brain of the host and the environment they are in, not the environment the FH is in. But I see your point.