Obamas tax plan

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Of course there are. I'm not saying there isn't but if PETA is the best example you got that shows you the difference.

Whats the difference exactly that you allude to? Words vs clear cut unabashed examples of property destruction and terrorism? Go ahead and google PETA & TERRORISM.

I'm not siding with someone even joking about killing Obama, but you're blind if you think organizations like PETA are less dangerous than single individuals such as this.
 
The Josh,

I like you brother, but you really need to get away from this "Republicans are pure evil and Democrats are pure goodness" train of thought you seem to be stuck to.
 
Well, while I understand (and share) your concern on some level, I don't think any of these jokers could succeed in such a plot. The changes in security that protect presidents, especially since the John Hinckley attempt on Reagan, and even more important, 9/11, lead me to believe that he would be reasonably safe from such an attempt (even if any of those people did seriously consider it, which I doubt).

Things have gotten better but I'm not willing to doubt them. All it takes is one shot to be successful.

Sorry, but what are you referring to? I was around (and an adult) during Reagan's presidency, and there was never any discussion of repealing the 22nd amendment, at least none that I ever heard of. Reagan did go on record in saying that he believed it to be a bad amendment (including after he left office), but he also stated categorically that he would never have sought a third term, even if one had been available to him.

I know during the Reagan's term there was some at the very least underground talk of repealing the 22nd so he could stay on. I don't know how far it got nor how serious it got. I don't think he wanted a third term because he knew his health was getting bad.
 
Reagan was too old, he wouldn't have run again...Bill Clinton on the other hand had he not been shamed publicly...hell, in reality he was running again this year.
 
I know you have to resort to this sort of thing since you can't structure a fact-based argument, but both things I wrote are true. I don't know anybody who idolizes Obama and there is a media study showing that coverage of Obama is more negative than coverage of McCain. :rolleyes:

Barbie, what's the point of presenting a fact-based arguement with you? :confused: It's been done by myself, and so many other's around here that it's is utterly pointless for anyone to waste their time on a lost cause such as yourself. The only place where your alleged facts are true, is in your alleged mind. :rolleyes:
 
What are you guys talking about? Richard Nixon had the 22nd Amendment appealed in '74 and was elected to a 5th presidential term in 1984 thanks to The Comedian's successful assassination of Wordward & Bernstein years earlier.

Oh, wait...
 
Whats the difference exactly that you allude to? Words vs clear cut unabashed examples of property destruction and terrorism? Go ahead and google PETA & TERRORISM.

I'm not siding with someone even joking about killing Obama, but you're blind if you think organizations like PETA are less dangerous than single individuals such as this.

That it seems most right wing groups tend to be more destructive than the liberal extremes. I think using Terrorism with Peta is fairly far from that but that may be just me. I'm not a fan of PETA as a whole but I'm not against the ethical treatment of animals either.

How many abortion clinics have we seen blown up in the last 10 years or so?

The Josh,

I like you brother, but you really need to get away from this "Republicans are pure evil and Democrats are pure goodness" train of thought you seem to be stuck to.

I'm not saying that at all. I do actually have some Republican beliefs but as a whole I think they are the worse of the two. The last 8 years plus the 8 years before that having control of Congress show it. I don't think the Dem's are all that great either but I think they are the lesser of two evils.
 
The Josh,

I like you brother, but you really need to get away from this "Republicans are pure evil and Democrats are pure goodness" train of thought you seem to be stuck to.

We may have lost him Kit...remember what hate leads to Josh!:emperor
 
I know during the Reagan's term there was some at the very least underground talk of repealing the 22nd so he could stay on.

Once again, I was around (and a bit older than you ;)) at that time, and I never heard of any such thing. As much has the media loathed Reagan, they would have jumped all over such a story, however "underground" it may have been.

But that is a side issue. The point that I raised is that there are far too many people in this country right now who are far to zealously, even religiously, devoted to Obama, and that really scares me.
 
That it seems most right wing groups tend to be more destructive than the liberal extremes. I think using Terrorism with Peta is fairly far from that but that may be just me. I'm not a fan of PETA as a whole but I'm not against the ethical treatment of animals either.

Their agenda isn't the point. Its the means of getting their point across. Which, yes, anti-abortion people sometimes do too, as do some anti-church people too.

The point I made is that liberals, just like conservatives can have militants as well. It seems that gets overlooked when people imply that liberals are all peace loving sophisticates.
 
Your head so far up some left wing/socialist professor's ass you don't even know which direction is up anymore. The only myth here is that you're capable of posting comment's that are well thought out and intelligent. :rolleyes:

Barbie, what's the point of presenting a fact-based arguement with you? :confused: It's been done by myself, and so many other's around here that it's is utterly pointless for anyone to waste their time on a lost cause such as yourself. The only place where your alleged facts are true, is in your alleged mind. :rolleyes:

:google

I know this is "toy" forum, but there is no need to act juvenile and attack other members for disagreeing.

Ignore list +1.
 
We may have lost him Kit...remember what hate leads to Josh!:emperor

Nah, I'm quite fine actually. :)

How about ELF then. Are they psychotic enough for you.

I'd have to educate myself on that group.

Their agenda isn't the point. Its the means of getting their point across. Which, yes, anti-abortion people sometimes do too, as do some anti-church people too.

The point I made is that liberals, just like conservatives can have militants as well. It seems that gets overlooked when people imply that liberals are all peace loving sophisticates.

I agree there is bad to both sides.

Stop fear mongering.
The answer is 1 (Jan'98) Other than that bupkiss..
What did I win?

That wouldn't be accurate actually.

https://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm
 
ELF is an excellent example. So is ALF. Most of the anti-Bush demonstrations during the first 4 years were exemplary. And then there's the old standby of peaceful leftism, protesting a G8 summit.

The Left pioneered violence as a form of political expression. I thought that was common knowledge. :confused:
 

Hmm...
Noticed a few things:
1) You asked about abortion clinic bombings specifically
2) Your site that you link to seems to have a pronounced bias
3) The stats provided in your link are most certainly not provided
by a neutral or unbiased party i.e. "The National Abortion Federation":rolleyes:
4) Most importantly no references,footnotes or case specifics are given to back up the stats.
They are simply numbers in boxes without documentation.

This is my source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence
Say what you will about wikipedia but the cases are documented.

I didnt detect an overt bias in either direction.

Amendment:
Upon closer inspection of my source page it seems they too use NAF as a primary source.
The numbers still differ wildly however.
I concede it may be more than 1 incident.
(Actually Im loath to concede anything when such a biased source is used)
The FBI homepage wasnt helpful.
Possibly as high as 9 depending on what the definition of "clinic" is.
Also depends on what you define "bombing" as being.
Sorry to pull a Clinton.
 
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ED-AI343_1taxcr_NS_20081008232813.gif
 
This was in today's WSJ regarding Obama's plan:

Obama's 95% Illusion
It depends on what the meaning of 'tax cut' is.

One of Barack Obama's most potent campaign claims is that he'll cut taxes for no less than 95% of "working families." He's even promising to cut taxes enough that the government's tax share of GDP will be no more than 18.2% -- which is lower than it is today.

APIt's a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he's also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of "tax cut."

For the Obama Democrats, a tax cut is no longer letting you keep more of what you earn. In their lexicon, a tax cut includes tens of billions of dollars in government handouts that are disguised by the phrase "tax credit." Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand no fewer than seven such credits for individuals:

- A $500 tax credit ($1,000 a couple) to "make work pay" that phases out at income of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 per couple.

- A $4,000 tax credit for college tuition.

- A 10% mortgage interest tax credit (on top of the existing mortgage interest deduction and other housing subsidies).

- A "savings" tax credit of 50% up to $1,000.

- An expansion of the earned-income tax credit that would allow single workers to receive as much as $555 a year, up from $175 now, and give these workers up to $1,110 if they are paying child support.

- A child care credit of 50% up to $6,000 of expenses a year.

- A "clean car" tax credit of up to $7,000 on the purchase of certain vehicles.

Here's the political catch. All but the clean car credit would be "refundable," which is Washington-speak for the fact that you can receive these checks even if you have no income-tax liability. In other words, they are an income transfer -- a federal check -- from taxpayers to nontaxpayers. Once upon a time we called this "welfare," or in George McGovern's 1972 campaign a "Demogrant." Mr. Obama's genius is to call it a tax cut.

The Tax Foundation estimates that under the Obama plan 63 million Americans, or 44% of all tax filers, would have no income tax liability and most of those would get a check from the IRS each year. The Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis estimates that by 2011, under the Obama plan, an additional 10 million filers would pay zero taxes while cashing checks from the IRS.

The total annual expenditures on refundable "tax credits" would rise over the next 10 years by $647 billion to $1.054 trillion, according to the Tax Policy Center. This means that the tax-credit welfare state would soon cost four times actual cash welfare. By redefining such income payments as "tax credits," the Obama campaign also redefines them away as a tax share of GDP. Presto, the federal tax burden looks much smaller than it really is.

The political left defends "refundability" on grounds that these payments help to offset the payroll tax. And that was at least plausible when the only major refundable credit was the earned-income tax credit. Taken together, however, these tax credit payments would exceed payroll levies for most low-income workers.

It is also true that John McCain proposes a refundable tax credit -- his $5,000 to help individuals buy health insurance. We've written before that we prefer a tax deduction for individual health care, rather than a credit. But the big difference with Mr. Obama is that Mr. McCain's proposal replaces the tax subsidy for employer-sponsored health insurance that individuals don't now receive if they buy on their own. It merely changes the nature of the tax subsidy; it doesn't create a new one.

There's another catch: Because Mr. Obama's tax credits are phased out as incomes rise, they impose a huge "marginal" tax rate increase on low-income workers. The marginal tax rate refers to the rate on the next dollar of income earned. As the nearby chart illustrates, the marginal rate for millions of low- and middle-income workers would spike as they earn more income.

Some families with an income of $40,000 could lose up to 40 cents in vanishing credits for every additional dollar earned from working overtime or taking a new job. As public policy, this is contradictory. The tax credits are sold in the name of "making work pay," but in practice they can be a disincentive to working harder, especially if you're a lower-income couple getting raises of $1,000 or $2,000 a year. One mystery -- among many -- of the McCain campaign is why it has allowed Mr. Obama's 95% illusion to go unanswered.
 
This was in today's WSJ regarding Obama's plan:

Some families with an income of $40,000 could lose up to 40 cents in vanishing credits for every additional dollar earned from working overtime or taking a new job.

:monkey4:monkey4 Struggling to get by? Willing to work harder to afford something you can't now? Why bother, let someone else fund it and just use your rebates.
 
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I'm glad the economic angst has nothing to do with the stock markets. That way, it will have no effect on them. But wait...

I know you're being facetious, but I'm sure there are people who actually believe the stock market only reacts rationally and only to issues directly related to itself. If only that were so.

It's ironic that all of the so called 'deregulation' (which was more like re-regulation, having very little to do with a heightened respect for property rights, and having more to do with run-of-the-mill interventionist pragmatism) started during the 90's.

This would be the '90s that had a Republican president for three years and a Republican Congress for four more?
 
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