Starkiller
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
It looks like that changed Snakes face. It's debatable however in the graphics department.
It looks like that changed Snakes face. It's debatable however in the graphics department.
Nintendo 3DS & 3DSXL General Discussion
- Thread starter Kabukiman
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Tesio
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
Posting this in here were it's supposed to go, haha.
I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying that the 3DS is stuck with Ridge Racer GFX, I have NEVER said that
.
I did say usually as far as tech demos btw. However I would say the PS3 can create similar visuals, but not those of the first Heavy Rain and FF7 demos, which was exactly my point. The 3DS will be able to create stunning visuals compared to that of the PSP(likely) and DS(definitely) I believe.
Also, maybe I read wrong, but the only thing I saw on Kotaku, etc. Was that it worked by sending one image to each eye and thus creating a 3D effect. I guess 2 images on the same screen is a way of doing that, so would two screens, the point is I just don't know. And even if it does show the image twice Nintendo might have found a way to do it without requiring the CPU,GPU to render out two images, thus cutting the power of the system in half.
Look, we are saying the same thing, so I don't know why you seem to be getting frustrated with me. We both agree the 3DS will create some great visuals, but that it likely won't reach the tech demo running in real time in a full game environment.
Well, the difference between Square's claim back then and today's proposed graphical capability of the 3DS is that the 3DS has already shown that it could produce the graphics (in RE Revelations) to back up Nintendo's claims.
To follow up my previous point, check out the PS3 tech demos of FFVII and Heavy Rain. Would you argue with me that the PS3 games of today aren't very close to those tech demos in terms of graphics fidelity? Sometimes tech demos are a good indicator of the final product, especially if the tech demo is seen AFTER knowing the specs of a console's technical specs (CPU, GPU), which is something the 3DS can claim.
I've already said that in gameplay the graphics produced by the 3DS might not look quite as good as in that demo, but my point was that the system was capable of producing graphics that look promisingly close to that tech demo, period. You're right, the tech demo doesn't carry the burden of AI, background processes and scripting, but neither does the real-time demo of RE Revelations and one could argue that Revelations looks very close in technical quality to that tech demo.
As for how the 3DS produces it's 3D effect, Im going by what has been reported on Kotaku, Gizmodo, Engadget, etc. As of right now, the 3DS's process of simultaneously creating two images on screen is the only feasable possibility. So it is educated conjecture from credited sources.
Oh yeah, and about MGS:3DS I agree it looks better then the PS2, PSP, and probably Wii. It looks like there is at least bump, but probably normal mapping and spec mapping on Snake, which is really cool!
Anyway, sorry, RE Revelations thread readers, we practically hijacking the thread (although most of what Ive said is indirectly relevant to this game), you can have the thread back.
Posting this in here were it's supposed to go, haha.
I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying that the 3DS is stuck with Ridge Racer GFX, I have NEVER said that
.I did say usually as far as tech demos btw. However I would say the PS3 can create similar visuals, but not those of the first Heavy Rain and FF7 demos, which was exactly my point. The 3DS will be able to create stunning visuals compared to that of the PSP(likely) and DS(definitely) I believe.
Also, maybe I read wrong, but the only thing I saw on Kotaku, etc. Was that it worked by sending one image to each eye and thus creating a 3D effect. I guess 2 images on the same screen is a way of doing that, so would two screens, the point is I just don't know. And even if it does show the image twice Nintendo might have found a way to do it without requiring the CPU,GPU to render out two images, thus cutting the power of the system in half.
Look, we are saying the same thing, so I don't know why you seem to be getting frustrated with me
. We both agree the 3DS will create some great visuals, but that it likely won't reach the tech demo running in real time in a full game environment.
plasmid303
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
Actually, we aren't saying the same thing, just similar things that connote different meanings. I'm trying to convince all of us that the 3DS will be able to produce graphics that are close to that tech demo using an established example (RE Revelations), thus much better than the PSP or original DS, while you're trying to say otherwise. You know I never said the PS3 nor the 3DS will be able to render graphics that match EXACTLY those of their respective tech demos, I've always used the phrasing 'close to'.
I think the 3DS will be much more capable than what you've compared it to (PSP, likely and DS, definitely). If you consider that games on the iPad already look better than those of either the PSP and DS and that the iPad's A4 chip is relatively modest compared to the PICA200 and most new portable GPUs (the A4 is just the iPhone 3gs chip but beefed up) then I think 3DS will trump them all.
Measuring graphics capability between console systems is an abstract thing to do unless we factor in hard numbers, and as of right now, we don't know how fast the CPU or RAM is on the 3DS nor exactly how powerful the GPU is except this:
With those kind of stats, I can expect the 3DS to push out polygonal definition on par with the PSP and iPad, but have shaders that rival those of the PS3/360. Who knows, though, until we have more solid numbers.
This isn't going anywhere. I'm championing the capabilities of the 3DS while understandably you're remaining speculative. And nothing is going to happen until next year anyway. Hopefully something concrete will be shown during this year's Tokyo Game Show (although Nintendo doesn't attend, they hold their own showings).
Posting this in here were it's supposed to go, haha.
I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying that the 3DS is stuck with Ridge Racer GFX, I have NEVER said that
I did say usually as far as tech demos btw. However I would say the PS3 can create similar visuals, but not those of the first Heavy Rain and FF7 demos, which was exactly my point. The 3DS will be able to create stunning visuals compared to that of the PSP(likely) and DS(definitely) I believe.
Also, maybe I read wrong, but the only thing I saw on Kotaku, etc. Was that it worked by sending one image to each eye and thus creating a 3D effect. I guess 2 images on the same screen is a way of doing that, so would two screens, the point is I just don't know. And even if it does show the image twice Nintendo might have found a way to do it without requiring the CPU,GPU to render out two images, thus cutting the power of the system in half.
Look, we are saying the same thing, so I don't know why you seem to be getting frustrated with me
Actually, we aren't saying the same thing, just similar things that connote different meanings. I'm trying to convince all of us that the 3DS will be able to produce graphics that are close to that tech demo using an established example (RE Revelations), thus much better than the PSP or original DS, while you're trying to say otherwise. You know I never said the PS3 nor the 3DS will be able to render graphics that match EXACTLY those of their respective tech demos, I've always used the phrasing 'close to'.
I think the 3DS will be much more capable than what you've compared it to (PSP, likely and DS, definitely). If you consider that games on the iPad already look better than those of either the PSP and DS and that the iPad's A4 chip is relatively modest compared to the PICA200 and most new portable GPUs (the A4 is just the iPhone 3gs chip but beefed up) then I think 3DS will trump them all.
Measuring graphics capability between console systems is an abstract thing to do unless we factor in hard numbers, and as of right now, we don't know how fast the CPU or RAM is on the 3DS nor exactly how powerful the GPU is except this:
With those kind of stats, I can expect the 3DS to push out polygonal definition on par with the PSP and iPad, but have shaders that rival those of the PS3/360. Who knows, though, until we have more solid numbers.
This isn't going anywhere. I'm championing the capabilities of the 3DS while understandably you're remaining speculative. And nothing is going to happen until next year anyway. Hopefully something concrete will be shown during this year's Tokyo Game Show (although Nintendo doesn't attend, they hold their own showings).
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Starkiller
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
I'm saying that RE "tech demo" was just fancy FMV and cut scenes. I mean look at the FMV in the FF games for the PSX, they were leagues better than the actual gameplay, that stood true up 'til today where we can finally render that using the in game engines. I feel that's all the RE tech demo was for the 3DS. I feel the graphics may be a slightly better than the PSP but in the same league, with 3d on top of it.
Nothing draw dropping or ground breaking, then I foresee Sony launching a new PSP system within another year or two with games that look long caliber with say, the original Xbox. Where as now (PSP graphics) they look like they are stuck somewhere between PSX and early PS2 games. Where the DS is like a 64 2.0
I'm saying that RE "tech demo" was just fancy FMV and cut scenes. I mean look at the FMV in the FF games for the PSX, they were leagues better than the actual gameplay, that stood true up 'til today where we can finally render that using the in game engines. I feel that's all the RE tech demo was for the 3DS. I feel the graphics may be a slightly better than the PSP but in the same league, with 3d on top of it.
Nothing draw dropping or ground breaking, then I foresee Sony launching a new PSP system within another year or two with games that look long caliber with say, the original Xbox. Where as now (PSP graphics) they look like they are stuck somewhere between PSX and early PS2 games. Where the DS is like a 64 2.0
plasmid303
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
So you're saying that Capcom and/or Nintendo is falsifying the authenticity of that real-time RE Revelations demo? That's what your argument hinges on, basically -- that you think they are lying out their asses. If that's the case, then there's no point discussing any further. I believe it's legit and rendered real-time on MT Framework because, well, I believe Capcom. And I hope the final RE Revelations game really does look that good.
Seriously, it all boils down to this: plasmid believes it's legit and real-time, starkiller does not. There's not much else we need to say about it until Capcom proves one of us wrong.
Come on, Tokyo Game Show! I need new info.
So you're saying that Capcom and/or Nintendo is falsifying the authenticity of that real-time RE Revelations demo? That's what your argument hinges on, basically -- that you think they are lying out their asses. If that's the case, then there's no point discussing any further. I believe it's legit and rendered real-time on MT Framework because, well, I believe Capcom. And I hope the final RE Revelations game really does look that good.
Seriously, it all boils down to this: plasmid believes it's legit and real-time, starkiller does not. There's not much else we need to say about it until Capcom proves one of us wrong.
Come on, Tokyo Game Show! I need new info.
Starkiller
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
I suppose so, you seem like it's inconceivable news that a company would lie to us to make themselves and their product look better than the real thing? As if that never happens...
The quality of what they showed would be gauged at about late PS2/early PS3 and I don't think they will be able to crank that much out of it. Do I want it? Sure. Do I think this next handheld console will deliver them? No.
I hope it's more than just an up to par PSP with 3D capabilities. But it needs to prove it to me. I'm not stubbornly arguing here. I'm debating the point of what they show vs. what we ultimately get.
So you're saying that Capcom and/or Nintendo is falsifying the authenticity of that real-time RE Revelations demo? That's what your argument hinges on, basically -- that you think they are lying out their asses. If that's the case, then there's no point discussing any further. I believe it's legit and rendered real-time on MT Framework because, well, I believe Capcom. And I hope the final RE Revelations game really does look that good.
Seriously, it all boils down to this: plasmid believes it's legit and real-time, starkiller does not. There's not much else we need to say about it until Capcom proves one of us wrong.
Come on, Tokyo Game Show! I need new info.
I suppose so, you seem like it's inconceivable news that a company would lie to us to make themselves and their product look better than the real thing? As if that never happens...
The quality of what they showed would be gauged at about late PS2/early PS3 and I don't think they will be able to crank that much out of it. Do I want it? Sure. Do I think this next handheld console will deliver them? No.
I hope it's more than just an up to par PSP with 3D capabilities. But it needs to prove it to me. I'm not stubbornly arguing here. I'm debating the point of what they show vs. what we ultimately get.
plasmid303
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
I'm not naive to think that developers and publishers aren't guilty from time to time of embellishing. Remember the very first trailer for Killzone 2 and Motorstorm?
It happens, but not all the time.
I'm not naive to think that developers and publishers aren't guilty from time to time of embellishing. Remember the very first trailer for Killzone 2 and Motorstorm?
It happens, but not all the time.
dominishin
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
Ahh, I was hoping the next-gen of handhelds would reach Xbox1 graphical prowess.
Ahh, I was hoping the next-gen of handhelds would reach Xbox1 graphical prowess.
Starkiller
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
Hell I'd be happy if they could match the likes of GameCube titles like Metroid Prime and RE4, I'd be mucho satisfied with it for a good long while.
Hell I'd be happy if they could match the likes of GameCube titles like Metroid Prime and RE4, I'd be mucho satisfied with it for a good long while.
plasmid303
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
Recently on Jimmy Fallon, Reggie Fils-Aime said the 3DS would be out "next year". However, Nintendo says he's wrong:
https://kotaku.com/5574144/nintendo-exec-mistaken-about-nintendo-3ds-release-date
Hope this means the 3DS might make it out by Holiday season 2010!
Recently on Jimmy Fallon, Reggie Fils-Aime said the 3DS would be out "next year". However, Nintendo says he's wrong:
https://kotaku.com/5574144/nintendo-exec-mistaken-about-nintendo-3ds-release-date
Hope this means the 3DS might make it out by Holiday season 2010!
Starkiller
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
In that trailer--I really don't know if it's the actual graphics, they kind of look similar to RE5--but it's easy to tell that the character models aren't as high-resolution as in RE5, so if it were just a prerendered cinematic it would be a waste of time to reduce the quality when they could so easily create the same thing with the stuff they had. And that leads me to think those are the assets being used in the game, so maybe it really will look like that.
In that trailer--I really don't know if it's the actual graphics, they kind of look similar to RE5--but it's easy to tell that the character models aren't as high-resolution as in RE5, so if it were just a prerendered cinematic it would be a waste of time to reduce the quality when they could so easily create the same thing with the stuff they had. And that leads me to think those are the assets being used in the game, so maybe it really will look like that.
plasmid303
Super Freak
automaton
Super Freak
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Re: Nintendo 3DS
i am not questioning the PSP's quality, just their business model... with the 3DS on the way (the Nintendo DS is already the number 1 selling console hand held or otherwise) and the popularity of the iphone / ipad, Sony will have a tough time competing.
i am not questioning the PSP's quality, just their business model... with the 3DS on the way (the Nintendo DS is already the number 1 selling console hand held or otherwise) and the popularity of the iphone / ipad, Sony will have a tough time competing.
Re: Nintendo 3DS
Then again, all they have to do is release a new PSP next year and they'll be just fine.
Then again, all they have to do is release a new PSP next year and they'll be just fine.
plasmid303
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
The fact that Sony's PSP has survived against a Nintendo portable is something worth lauding. That's something no other portable in history has ever been able to claim. It's still thriving in the market, especially overseas, where it's still selling very well. Sometimes being number 2 ain't such a bad thing as long as you're making money.
The PSP2 will help Sony regain momentum and should be stiff competition for Nintendo, assuming Sony doesn't mess anything up.
The fact that Sony's PSP has survived against a Nintendo portable is something worth lauding. That's something no other portable in history has ever been able to claim. It's still thriving in the market, especially overseas, where it's still selling very well. Sometimes being number 2 ain't such a bad thing as long as you're making money.
The PSP2 will help Sony regain momentum and should be stiff competition for Nintendo, assuming Sony doesn't mess anything up.
Starkiller
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
Maybe the PSP2 will have 3D capabilities? I must say I am rather turned off by their new "campaign" for it they showed at E3, with that annoying little black kid telling me how awesome the PSP is. Yawn...way to single out my age demographic sony.
But if they could find a way to slap two analog like sticks on it, I'd already be interested. Wouldn't even need to be 3D.
But the thing to me is this, I hardly ever game on the go. I use my PSP and DS once in a blue moon. Basically on vacation and trips, which I seldom go on, otherwise they collect dust. When I was a kid it made since to take my Gamegear and Gameboy everywhere because I was a kid, I could play my games while my parents where shopping, or I was in the backseat of the car.
Nowadays, years after the last gen has hit, I don't see the total draw of portable gaming. One side of me wants these tiny contained games that are pick up and lay, because I feel I don't have time to dedicate hours upon hours into games on the go. But then the other half of me is saying they need solid games that aren't just stripped down episodic versions of their console counterparts.
I'd really need to be impressed by the next handheld, not just in terms of functions but games. Having a 3D MGS3 or a Ocarina remake isn't enough to sell me on it yet.
Maybe the PSP2 will have 3D capabilities? I must say I am rather turned off by their new "campaign" for it they showed at E3, with that annoying little black kid telling me how awesome the PSP is. Yawn...way to single out my age demographic sony.
But if they could find a way to slap two analog like sticks on it, I'd already be interested. Wouldn't even need to be 3D.
But the thing to me is this, I hardly ever game on the go. I use my PSP and DS once in a blue moon. Basically on vacation and trips, which I seldom go on, otherwise they collect dust. When I was a kid it made since to take my Gamegear and Gameboy everywhere because I was a kid, I could play my games while my parents where shopping, or I was in the backseat of the car.
Nowadays, years after the last gen has hit, I don't see the total draw of portable gaming. One side of me wants these tiny contained games that are pick up and lay, because I feel I don't have time to dedicate hours upon hours into games on the go. But then the other half of me is saying they need solid games that aren't just stripped down episodic versions of their console counterparts.
I'd really need to be impressed by the next handheld, not just in terms of functions but games. Having a 3D MGS3 or a Ocarina remake isn't enough to sell me on it yet.
Re: Nintendo 3DS
I think at this point Sony could make a very powerful new PSP. As far as graphics capabilities I think Nintendo held back, probably to keep the cost down and also because of the 3D screen and cameras. So if Sony wanted they could make a very powerful PSP without 3D. Plus they've had a lot of time to get feedback (the controls) and on what features to add (online and stuff). So I think they could do really well.
I think at this point Sony could make a very powerful new PSP. As far as graphics capabilities I think Nintendo held back, probably to keep the cost down and also because of the 3D screen and cameras. So if Sony wanted they could make a very powerful PSP without 3D. Plus they've had a lot of time to get feedback (the controls) and on what features to add (online and stuff). So I think they could do really well.
plasmid303
Super Freak
Re: Nintendo 3DS
I actually wonder how far Sony is currently in their design process for the PSP2. Were they waiting on Nintendo to make their first move or is the PSP2 close to finalizing? It's very exciting.
I love the speculations that arise whenever the smell of a new cycle of gaming tech is on the horizon. Part of me wishes the home consoles would arrive at this point RIGHT NOW, but I can understand the reasons for dragging out this console cycle as long as it can last.
As for portable gaming, I'm playing more portable games nowadays than I have in years, mostly due to having my iPhone with me at all times. iPhone games may not be quite as complex or as fully featured as PSP/DS games, but man it's so easy to get new ones. I also carry my DS around sometimes, but rarely now. My PSP is in my closet. Not even MGS Peace Walker could get me to pick up my PSP again. That's kinda sad.
I actually wonder how far Sony is currently in their design process for the PSP2. Were they waiting on Nintendo to make their first move or is the PSP2 close to finalizing? It's very exciting.
I love the speculations that arise whenever the smell of a new cycle of gaming tech is on the horizon. Part of me wishes the home consoles would arrive at this point RIGHT NOW, but I can understand the reasons for dragging out this console cycle as long as it can last.
As for portable gaming, I'm playing more portable games nowadays than I have in years, mostly due to having my iPhone with me at all times. iPhone games may not be quite as complex or as fully featured as PSP/DS games, but man it's so easy to get new ones. I also carry my DS around sometimes, but rarely now. My PSP is in my closet. Not even MGS Peace Walker could get me to pick up my PSP again. That's kinda sad.
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