Hot Toys The Falcon and the Winter Soldier - 1/6 Winter Soldier

[skyler2702]

Small custom of the Winter Soldier 2.0 that we see in Madripoor with an unofficial HS, a homemade harness assembly and the gilded arm repainted.
While waiting for more accurate clothes I think it does the job well, even if the HS is not perfect we still recognize Sebastian Stan.

instagram : @Guillaume_customs

 

[Turtle882]

Very cool! I would be more tempted to get this figure if it included the winter soldier jacket and harness.

 

[matticus]

Man, you guys reaaaalllly want to hate this show. Who do you think put the butler up to taking out the super soldiers? Whose plan do you think that was? Obviously from his satisfactory reaction from his prison cell, Zemo?s. This did not expose a poorly-written failure of Zemo, but rather reinforced his reputation as a mastermind who is always five steps ahead.

I don't want to hate the show, I do hate it. Isaiah, Freckly long-stocking, the fight scenes, Bucky/Zemo being worthless, the never ending boat reconstruction, failure of Sam's moment as Cap. This did expose a poorly-written failure from the showrunner.

Skyler, wow that custom looks incredible!

 

[Omega9300]

I don't want to hate the show, I do hate it. Isaiah, Freckly long-stocking, the fight scenes, Bucky/Zemo being worthless, the never ending boat reconstruction, failure of Sam's moment as Cap. This did expose a poorly-written failure from the showrunner.

Skyler, wow that custom looks incredible!

So why do you hate Isiah exactly???

I am going to repeat a question I asked you in a different thread:

So I suppose if you were Isiah and had been treated as shabbily as he (and his wife) had you wouldn’t be bitter/pissed???

With this and some prior comments you made, it seems as though Isiah had merely been inconvenienced or something and was going around complaining to everyone who would listen about his coffee taking too long or bad service at a restaurant. Isiah, was used and abused by a country that he loved and fought valiantly for. Also remember Bucky and Sam sought Isiah out, Isiah didn’t go looking for them to tell them his tale of woe and betrayal.

 

[Omega9300]

The custom you put together is awesome skyler, really well done!!!

I love the jacket, and that headsculpt is pretty damn good also ...there is no doubt who that is.

 

[matticus]

So why do you hate Isiah exactly???

I am going to repeat a question I asked you in a different thread:

So I suppose if you were Isiah and had been treated as shabbily as he (and his wife) had you wouldn’t be bitter/pissed???

With this and some prior comments you made, it seems as though Isiah had merely been inconvenienced or something and was going around complaining to everyone who would listen about his coffee taking too long or bad service at a restaurant. Isiah, was used and abused by a country that he loved and fought valiantly for. Also remember Bucky and Sam sought Isiah out, Isiah didn’t go looking for them to tell them his tale of woe and betrayal.

First of all, he is a super soldier. He took off the Winter Soldier's arm or part of it. Then he got "experimented on" but didn't fight back? Just took it for 30 years? Then went and hid and tells someone else how to not be Captain America? Was pathetic writing and frankly illogical. Woke writer just wanted to play the race card. Why go to his house, with limited time for story, 3 times? Plus, show not tell. Show what is happening to him, it was on deaf ears with him explaining a pretty significant event in history. You think if someone explained Bucky killing Stark's parents and not showing it, how little effect that has? Logical writing was out the window on this series with honestly some self serving from the showrunner unnecessarily in there.

 

[Omega9300]

First of all, he is a super soldier. He took off the Winter Soldier's arm or part of it. Then he got "experimented on" but didn't fight back? Just took it for 30 years? Then went and hid and tells someone else how to not be Captain America? Was pathetic writing and frankly illogical. Woke writer just wanted to play the race card. Why go to his house, with limited time for story, 3 times? Plus, show not tell. Show what is happening to him, it was on deaf ears with him explaining a pretty significant event in history. You think if someone explained Bucky killing Stark's parents and not showing it, how little effect that has? Logical writing was out the window on this series with honestly some self serving from the showrunner unnecessarily in there.

1) Just because Isaiah is a super soldier it does not mean that he can not be overwhelmed/overpowered/manipulated/pressured in some manner, he is not the Hulk or Odin. Was Bucky “just taking it” when he was under the control of Hydra for decades? I think in the comics Isiah was court-martialed and sent to jail for taking a Captain America costume and doing some sort of secret mission in Germany against the Nazis. I don’t know the details because I did not read the comic series (it was made long after I stopped collecting comics) but I am somewhat familiar with the story. But my point is that just because he is a super soldier it doesn’t mean that he will win in every situation. Also he may have agreed to being incarcerated but that doesn’t mean that he agreed to be experimented upon and agreed to have his family lied to about his whereabouts.

Also I don’t know why you would assume that he simply hid after his release. He could have laid low due to any number of reasons including to protect his family. It would not be surprising that there was some sort of “leverage” being used on him by the government to keep quite so that his story did not get out. Let’s remember the very experiments that were initially done on Isiah and several hundred other Black Soldiers were secretly conducted I guess the comics were making an analogy with the now infamous Tuskegee Program that was conducted IN THE United States from 1932-1972 (if you don’t know about this look it up, it will not be difficult to find information). So just because Isiah went home and was not public about this doesn’t make him a coward. Regardless I can see how that sort of experience could make anyone bitter and mistrustful.

As I stated in another thread I do agree with you that the aforementioned things could have been presented more powerfully to the audience via means other than through dialogue (such as a flashback) and was a missed opportunity to make Isiah’s position more easily grasped/understood.

2) Too say that the writer was merely playing the “race card” is bit presumptuous. The term “race card” is often used by racists and people who are fine with the status-quo and think that there are no legitimate issues of racism or race based inequities in our society (or don’t care about such matters). So they tend to use the phrase “playing the race card” as a way to diminish or delegitimize ANY discussion containing analysis of issues of race in this country. Often people who use that term think that anyone who brings up social justice issues concerning race as trouble makers or divisive regardless of what that person is saying. They perceive it simply as some Black person (or other) complaining and nothing more.

Of course I don’t know any of the writers on this show or what their “agendas” were with this series. However, if they did this entire series and neglected to address issues of race in some manner it would have been ridiculous. Even the comic books addressed this issue when Sam takes up the mantle of Captain America. As I also said before I think several things including racial issues could have been handled better in this show I do believe that race HAD TO BE addressed in some respect in this series and thus did not require some “woke” “agenda driven” “coastal elite” or whatever term you want to use to artificially force race to be a legitimate part of this story.

3) So finally, I will ask you again ...if you were in Isiah’s shoes how would you feel ?

 

[user 64404]

1) Just because Isaiah is a super soldier it does not mean that he can not be overwhelmed/overpowered/manipulated/pressured in some manner, he is not the Hulk or Odin. Was Bucky ?just taking it? when he was under the control of Hydra for decades? I think in the comics Isiah was court-martialed and sent to jail for taking a Captain America costume and doing some sort of secret mission in Germany against the Nazis. I don?t know the details because I did not read the comic series (it was made long after I stopped collecting comics) but I am somewhat familiar with the story. But my point is that just because he is a super soldier it doesn?t mean that he will win in every situation. Also he may have agreed to being incarcerated but that doesn?t mean that he agreed to be experimented upon and agreed to have his family lied to about his whereabouts.

Also I don?t know why you would assume that he simply hid after his release. He could have laid low due to any number of reasons including to protect his family. It would not be surprising that there was some sort of ?leverage? being used on him by the government to keep quite so that his story did not get out. Let?s remember the very experiments that were initially done on Isiah and several hundred other Black Soldiers were secretly conducted I guess the comics were making an analogy with the now infamous Tuskegee Program that was conducted IN THE United States from 1932-1972 (if you don?t know about this look it up, it will not be difficult to find information). So just because Isiah went home and was not public about this doesn?t make him a coward. Regardless I can see how that sort of experience could make anyone bitter and mistrustful.

As I stated in another thread I do agree with you that the aforementioned things could have been presented more powerfully to the audience via means other than through dialogue (such as a flashback) and was a missed opportunity to make Isiah?s position more easily grasped/understood.

2) Too say that the writer was merely playing the ?race card? is bit presumptuous. The term ?race card? is often used by racists and people who are fine with the status-quo and think that there are no legitimate issues of racism or race based inequities in our society (or don?t care about such matters). So they tend to use the phrase ?playing the race card? as a way to diminish or delegitimize ANY discussion containing analysis of issues of race in this country. Often people who use that term think that anyone who brings up social justice issues concerning race as trouble makers or divisive regardless of what that person is saying. They perceive it simply as some Black person (or other) complaining and nothing more.

Of course I don?t know any of the writers on this show or what their ?agendas? were with this series. However, if they did this entire series and neglected to address issues of race in some manner it would have been ridiculous. Even the comic books addressed this issue when Sam takes up the mantle of Captain America. As I also said before I think several things including racial issues could have been handled better in this show I do believe that race HAD TO BE addressed in some respect in this series and thus did not require some ?woke? ?agenda driven? ?coastal elite? or whatever term you want to use to artificially force race to be a legitimate part of this story.

3) So finally, I will ask you again ...if you were in Isiah?s shoes how would you feel ?

I totally agree with you, i dont know why you loose your time with matticus, the show is clearly too "woke", agenda driven, SJW and it's too pro human rights for him, thats why he hate it so much.
If he dont have a empathy for Isaiah SCARS than he will never understand what this show was about.

 

[Sassafras]

3) So finally, I will ask you again ...if you were in Isiah?s shoes how would you feel ?

Just sayin' a Hollywood Reporter article point blank says Spellman assembled "an almost all black writers room".

Of course Isaiah would be bitter. Reminds me of a documentary where some WW 2 Japanese pilots visited Pearl Harbor, as act of peace. Some Americans could take their hands, accepting they were all soldiers. Others could not, thinking of the friends that died that day.

But that assumes I accept the character as introduced at all, which I don't. Even the base comic Truth is basically co-opting Captain America and Bucky' s origins. And wish the MCU would cut this kind of stuff out, same as, oh, that the original Avengers name, of course, came from Carol Danvers, along with the Fury eye thing.

Cribbing on other and better work, just undermines whatever you are trying to do. Just because you trot a character out and tell me how things are doesn't make me believe. Overselling kills the buzz. I know why the Truth comic was created. Well, OK.

But you are basically riffing on Captain America, again. And this series doubled down; ok, apparently Isaiah is the ONLY person up to CW who can find this ghost assassin; AND he can break an arm that took a direct blast from an arc reactor to remove; AND he was tortured for 30 years (note the series pays blip attention to Bucky' s sisters or his torture - Sam the former counselor sure doesn't give a #+%); and it was A-OK for Bucky - because as a white guy, he gets a new arm, as the series takes a shot at inequitable health care.

Sure, bring up race, hunger, disease, climate change, in a comic book movie. For me tho, flat out, Spellman & company, and producer Nate Moore ignored character personalities we've known since 2011 and 2014. Both Bucky and Falcon behave in ways to me are like fan fiction. They put out stuff about Sam Wilson that to me make no sense. I don't even like the guy much in this series. But Spellman served up the messaging with a shovel; even getting a former POW with PTSD to apologize for being insensitive. Are u kidding. That's when I had had it with the series, tho it steamrolled on, with boring action and a cringe speech.

So, a lot of people like the series. Wow, it deals with ISSUES. IMO deals with them so badly, along with the main characters, I'm passing on new figs of fav characters, and can only hope Loki is better done and less of a mess.

 

[user 64404]

Just sayin' a Hollywood Reporter article point blank says Spellman assembled "an almost all black writers room".

Of course Isaiah would be bitter. Reminds me of a documentary where some WW 2 Japanese pilots visited Pearl Harbor, as act of peace. Some Americans could take their hands, accepting they were all soldiers. Others could not, thinking of the friends that died that day.

But that assumes I accept the character as introduced at all, which I don't. Even the base comic Truth is basically co-opting Captain America and Bucky' s origins. And wish the MCU would cut this kind of stuff out, same as, oh, that the original Avengers name, of course, came from Carol Danvers, along with the Fury eye thing.

Cribbing on other and better work, just undermines whatever you are trying to do. Just because you trot a character out and tell me how things are doesn't make me believe. Overselling kills the buzz. I know why the Truth comic was created. Well, OK.

But you are basically riffing on Captain America, again. And this series doubled down; ok, apparently Isaiah is the ONLY person up to CW who can find this ghost assassin; AND he can break an arm that took a direct blast from an arc reactor to remove; AND he was tortured for 30 years (note the series pays blip attention to Bucky' s sisters or his torture - Sam the former counselor sure doesn't give a #+%); and it was A-OK for Bucky - because as a white guy, he gets a new arm, as the series takes a shot at inequitable health care.

Sure, bring up race, hunger, disease, climate change, in a comic book movie. For me tho, flat out, Spellman & company, and producer Nate Moore ignored character personalities we've known since 2011 and 2014. Both Bucky and Falcon behave in ways to me are like fan fiction. They put out stuff about Sam Wilson that to me make no sense. I don't even like the guy much in this series. But Spellman served up the messaging with a shovel; even getting a former POW with PTSD to apologize for being insensitive. Are u kidding. That's when I had had it with the series, tho it steamrolled on, with boring action and a cringe speech.

So, a lot of people like the series. Wow, it deals with ISSUES. IMO deals with them so badly, along with the main characters, I'm passing on new figs of fav characters, and can only hope Loki is better done and less of a mess.

Just sayin' a Hollywood Reporter article point blank says Spellman assembled "an almost all black writers room".
Whats the problem with that?
This is the exception, in the majority of hollywood productions its a "an all white writers room" and you dont seem to bother with that.
Sam and Bucky behave exactly how they were portrait in the previous movies, they even had an excellent character development and the future is bright for them in the MCU.

Dude you can have your opinion about the show, its in your rights but your reasons to dislike sound really a lot like bigotry.

 

[Centrocal]

They should have shown what happened to Isaiah from his perspective. Its actually a pretty interesting plot and the whole thing is glossed over while they're talking. There could have been one extra episode where they show him as a younger man in his prime getting the super soldier serum and going on missions and rescuing his team mates, maybe even show his encounter with the Winter Soldier and it ends with his court-martial. Then introduce old Isaiah and its like "Damn what did they do to him?"

 

[knl01]

On display in Secret Base

 

[user 64404]

They should have shown what happened to Isaiah from his perspective. Its actually a pretty interesting plot and the whole thing is glossed over while they're talking. There could have been one extra episode where they show him as a younger man in his prime getting the super soldier serum and going on missions and rescuing his team mates, maybe even show his encounter with the Winter Soldier and it ends with his court-martial. Then introduce old Isaiah and its like "Damn what did they do to him?"

Its Marvel, this would be really cheap for the MCU, i am hoping we get see a prequel to Isaiah in a spin off movie or series in disney + or even in a regular movie(it's oscar material from a story point of view).

 

[chrisstbh]

They should have shown what happened to Isaiah from his perspective. Its actually a pretty interesting plot and the whole thing is glossed over while they're talking. There could have been one extra episode where they show him as a younger man in his prime getting the super soldier serum and going on missions and rescuing his team mates, maybe even show his encounter with the Winter Soldier and it ends with his court-martial. Then introduce old Isaiah and its like "Damn what did they do to him?"

Spinoff.

 

[matticus]

1) Just because Isaiah is a super soldier it does not mean that he can not be overwhelmed/overpowered/manipulated/pressured in some manner, he is not the Hulk or Odin. Was Bucky ?just taking it? when he was under the control of Hydra for decades? I think in the comics Isiah was court-martialed and sent to jail for taking a Captain America costume and doing some sort of secret mission in Germany against the Nazis. I don?t know the details because I did not read the comic series (it was made long after I stopped collecting comics) but I am somewhat familiar with the story. But my point is that just because he is a super soldier it doesn?t mean that he will win in every situation. Also he may have agreed to being incarcerated but that doesn?t mean that he agreed to be experimented upon and agreed to have his family lied to about his whereabouts.

Also I don?t know why you would assume that he simply hid after his release. He could have laid low due to any number of reasons including to protect his family. It would not be surprising that there was some sort of ?leverage? being used on him by the government to keep quite so that his story did not get out. Let?s remember the very experiments that were initially done on Isiah and several hundred other Black Soldiers were secretly conducted I guess the comics were making an analogy with the now infamous Tuskegee Program that was conducted IN THE United States from 1932-1972 (if you don?t know about this look it up, it will not be difficult to find information). So just because Isiah went home and was not public about this doesn?t make him a coward. Regardless I can see how that sort of experience could make anyone bitter and mistrustful.

As I stated in another thread I do agree with you that the aforementioned things could have been presented more powerfully to the audience via means other than through dialogue (such as a flashback) and was a missed opportunity to make Isiah?s position more easily grasped/understood.

2) Too say that the writer was merely playing the ?race card? is bit presumptuous. The term ?race card? is often used by racists and people who are fine with the status-quo and think that there are no legitimate issues of racism or race based inequities in our society (or don?t care about such matters). So they tend to use the phrase ?playing the race card? as a way to diminish or delegitimize ANY discussion containing analysis of issues of race in this country. Often people who use that term think that anyone who brings up social justice issues concerning race as trouble makers or divisive regardless of what that person is saying. They perceive it simply as some Black person (or other) complaining and nothing more.

Of course I don?t know any of the writers on this show or what their ?agendas? were with this series. However, if they did this entire series and neglected to address issues of race in some manner it would have been ridiculous. Even the comic books addressed this issue when Sam takes up the mantle of Captain America. As I also said before I think several things including racial issues could have been handled better in this show I do believe that race HAD TO BE addressed in some respect in this series and thus did not require some ?woke? ?agenda driven? ?coastal elite? or whatever term you want to use to artificially force race to be a legitimate part of this story.

3) So finally, I will ask you again ...if you were in Isiah?s shoes how would you feel ?

If it was me, I would whoop some a$$ if I had that serum in me. I wouldn't just take it for 30 years. I read he was just released and then hid in that Baltimore house. Not much of a super soldier to me. Can't take them all on at once and would've been nice to see him in action. Would've been cooler if he was the one killing govt officials from a list like Bucky was mending fences from a list. Great parallel for both Bucky and Sam. Bucky was experimented on and then found and brainwashed. He never had an opportunity to think for himself while he had those abilities. Is everyone passing around this serum? Makes Cap and Bucky more and more less relevant that they were unique. I'd just rather see Isaiah take on the wrong gov't people, not talk race every time he was on screen. 3 times! Too heavy handed for Marvel.

I totally agree with you, i dont know why you loose your time with matticus, the show is clearly too "woke", agenda driven, SJW and it's too pro human rights for him, thats why he hate it so much.
If he dont have a empathy for Isaiah SCARS than he will never understand what this show was about.

I understand it and know that I don't want it in my shows. Ignore others, but plenty of others feel the same way. Keep hot topic issues out so that everyone can get behind the show and enjoy it. Why not put in a pandemic? Race issue is ok though?

Just sayin' a Hollywood Reporter article point blank says Spellman assembled "an almost all black writers room".
Whats the problem with that?
This is the exception, in the majority of hollywood productions its a "an all white writers room" and you dont seem to bother with that.
Sam and Bucky behave exactly how they were portrait in the previous movies, they even had an excellent character development and the future is bright for them in the MCU.

Dude you can have your opinion about the show, its in your rights but your reasons to dislike sound really a lot like bigotry.

Nothing is wrong with all black writers room, until it is. Black writers clearly can't escape the race card. Luke Cage, Black Panther and FWS all mention race. Just have to mention white and black skin color. I thought as a society we are for progression and don't want to create division?

Don't think Bucky was getting his butt kicked by serum refugees and Sam talking race in the previous movies. I won't watch WandaVision, but if that show is much better than this one, then the writers have failed. RT and this forum shows that.

 

[Spanbauer]

1) Just because Isaiah is a super soldier it does not mean that he can not be overwhelmed/overpowered/manipulated/pressured in some manner, he is not the Hulk or Odin. Was Bucky ?just taking it? when he was under the control of Hydra for decades? I think in the comics Isiah was court-martialed and sent to jail for taking a Captain America costume and doing some sort of secret mission in Germany against the Nazis. I don?t know the details because I did not read the comic series (it was made long after I stopped collecting comics) but I am somewhat familiar with the story. But my point is that just because he is a super soldier it doesn?t mean that he will win in every situation. Also he may have agreed to being incarcerated but that doesn?t mean that he agreed to be experimented upon and agreed to have his family lied to about his whereabouts.

Also I don?t know why you would assume that he simply hid after his release. He could have laid low due to any number of reasons including to protect his family. It would not be surprising that there was some sort of ?leverage? being used on him by the government to keep quite so that his story did not get out. Let?s remember the very experiments that were initially done on Isiah and several hundred other Black Soldiers were secretly conducted I guess the comics were making an analogy with the now infamous Tuskegee Program that was conducted IN THE United States from 1932-1972 (if you don?t know about this look it up, it will not be difficult to find information). So just because Isiah went home and was not public about this doesn?t make him a coward. Regardless I can see how that sort of experience could make anyone bitter and mistrustful.

As I stated in another thread I do agree with you that the aforementioned things could have been presented more powerfully to the audience via means other than through dialogue (such as a flashback) and was a missed opportunity to make Isiah?s position more easily grasped/understood.

2) Too say that the writer was merely playing the ?race card? is bit presumptuous. The term ?race card? is often used by racists and people who are fine with the status-quo and think that there are no legitimate issues of racism or race based inequities in our society (or don?t care about such matters). So they tend to use the phrase ?playing the race card? as a way to diminish or delegitimize ANY discussion containing analysis of issues of race in this country. Often people who use that term think that anyone who brings up social justice issues concerning race as trouble makers or divisive regardless of what that person is saying. They perceive it simply as some Black person (or other) complaining and nothing more.

Of course I don?t know any of the writers on this show or what their ?agendas? were with this series. However, if they did this entire series and neglected to address issues of race in some manner it would have been ridiculous. Even the comic books addressed this issue when Sam takes up the mantle of Captain America. As I also said before I think several things including racial issues could have been handled better in this show I do believe that race HAD TO BE addressed in some respect in this series and thus did not require some ?woke? ?agenda driven? ?coastal elite? or whatever term you want to use to artificially force race to be a legitimate part of this story.

3) So finally, I will ask you again ...if you were in Isiah?s shoes how would you feel ?

Really well said. We have seen how a super soldier can be tortured and experimented on with Bucky in the MCU already: the audience for this show should already be well familiar with how that is possible and what it looks like. So I would just add that the actor who portrayed Isaiah delivered such a powerful performance that I believe this was a case where telling instead of showing was the right call.

I understand it and know that I don't want it in my shows. Ignore others, but plenty of others feel the same way. Keep hot topic issues out so that everyone can get behind the show and enjoy it. Why not put in a pandemic? Race issue is ok though?

Race will forever be a "hot topic" issue so long as there are people who believe the solution is to avoid all mentions of it, and dismiss any and all attempts to do so as "playing the race card", or "having an agenda", or "being PC", or "being woke".

 

[Sassafras]

Just sayin' a Hollywood Reporter article point blank says Spellman assembled "an almost all black writers room".
Whats the problem with that?
This is the exception, in the majority of hollywood productions its a "an all white writers room" and you dont seem to bother with that.
Sam and Bucky behave exactly how they were portrait in the previous movies, they even had an excellent character development and the future is bright for them in the MCU.

Dude you can have your opinion about the show, its in your rights but your reasons to dislike sound really a lot like bigotry.

I DON'T have an issue with that per se. Also, we don't know know who does what writing in Hollywood most of the time, without looking. Source for your statement?

But IMO it's disingenuous to not consider, ya know, considering that the show was loaded with social issues that any number of black and immigrant advocates are writing about, talking about, etc. on a daily basis, protests, news, YT show up by the truckload in this series - that a room full of black writers decided to get their say in, too. No different when "Mr. Sensitive" Josh Whedon decided to stuff "female issues" into AOU. Or Captain Marvel. It's nothing new.

But that's the thing - while every director and writer has a vision (no pun intended) for their end product; and the MCU has often made commentary on world issues (TWS and CW, my two favorite films....)

IMO the way it was handled here was like Spellman looked over what Coogler had done ("colonizers") and cranked it up, to the point where Sam Wilson, who we knew was so traumatized by the death of his friend Riley (white guy) back in 2014, is now dismissively making statements about not putting up with stuff from "these white people". WTF. This is a former VA counsellor - dunno, like with Bucky, maybe getting returned after getting dusted altered some brain chemistry.

Heck, the showrunner didn't even slow down (like the Fury cat thing) and ask themselves, given a global audience that gets news feeds 24/7, do people really need to see Bucky nerfed/Sam lecture/fight scenes that look suspiciously close to stuff we've seen in other movies? And, IMO the Critical Drinker makes a good point - what was the point of this show, since we end right where we started - except, in my case, from being all happy, to bored and irritated.

If you like the treatment and it speaks to you, great. I thought it started well, and sank under the weight of social messaging, character derailment, and often boring or outright bad writing/editing with weirdly, moments of brilliance. Not something I'll invest $$$$ in, as far as merch goes.

 

[user 64404]

I DON'T have an issue with that per se. Also, we don't know know who does what writing in Hollywood most of the time, without looking. Source for your statement?

But IMO it's disingenuous to not consider, ya know, considering that the show was loaded with social issues that any number of black and immigrant advocates are writing about, talking about, etc. on a daily basis, protests, news, YT show up by the truckload in this series - that a room full of black writers decided to get their say in, too. No different when "Mr. Sensitive" Josh Whedon decided to stuff "female issues" into AOU. Or Captain Marvel. It's nothing new.

But that's the thing - while every director and writer has a vision (no pun intended) for their end product; and the MCU has often made commentary on world issues (TWS and CW, my two favorite films....)

IMO the way it was handled here was like Spellman looked over what Coogler had done ("colonizers") and cranked it up, to the point where Sam Wilson, who we knew was so traumatized by the death of his friend Riley (white guy) back in 2014, is now dismissively making statements about not putting up with stuff from "these white people". WTF. This is a former VA counsellor - dunno, like with Bucky, maybe getting returned after getting dusted altered some brain chemistry.

Heck, the showrunner didn't even slow down (like the Fury cat thing) and ask themselves, given a global audience that gets news feeds 24/7, do people really need to see Bucky nerfed/Sam lecture/fight scenes that look suspiciously close to stuff we've seen in other movies? And, IMO the Critical Drinker makes a good point - what was the point of this show, since we end right where we started - except, in my case, from being all happy, to bored and irritated.

If you like the treatment and it speaks to you, great. I thought it started well, and sank under the weight of social messaging, character derailment, and often boring or outright bad writing/editing with weirdly, moments of brilliance. Not something I'll invest $$$$ in, as far as merch goes.

You're the one who come up with the Hollywood Reporter article, now you say it does not matter? so why did you say that in first place to validate your opinion about the show be too black.
What Whedon do is Fetish fantasy about women and not "pro feminism". If you watch the Makin off of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier on disney+ you will see the difference between Whedon and this Show.
The social message of this show is ALL LIVES MATTER and Sam Wilson, a black man from the south, is Captain America. It's a message for a brighter future for the world, yes he is american, but the symbol of the main Marvel hero is worldwide, this is called active action against racism.
Dude having a white friends dont exclude Sam from suffer racism, he is a good person and VA counsellor but that dont shield him from racism, you clearly you dont understand what is racism for the things you're complain. but let's explain with an example: Sam does not treat people differently because of the color of their skin, but people who are racist does.
Bucky was not nerfed, he was starting to regain his identity without the Winter Soldier program in his head, his fighting methods is a total opposite from the winter soldier costumes, he even say that he isnt used to use his stronger arm in his daily routine, and lets remember that this was one of his main moves when he was the Winter Soldier.

 

[matticus]

Race will forever be a "hot topic" issue so long as there are people who believe the solution is to avoid all mentions of it, and dismiss any and all attempts to do so as "playing the race card", or "having an agenda", or "being PC", or "being woke".

I didn't say burn books. You clearly ignore people using it as an excuse cause they feel inferior or that someone doesn't like them or doesn't give them a job. That stuff covers all races. I am saying for entertainment value for a wide ranging comic book movie, maybe leave that garbage out of it. Or maybe cover that China is doing that stuff right now?

 

[Centrocal]

For a show about a black Captain America, it would have been absolutely absurd for them not to acknowledge racial inequality. It would have been cowardly. Acknowledging race=/=creating division

Honestly, the only thing I didn't like about the show, aside from a weak, uncompelling antagonist, was John Walker using the shield to kill someone. I know Steve Rogers killed people, but it was always in self defense. The point of the scene was to show hes gone off the rails, but they could done it another way. Maybe they could have pulled him off the guy before it was too late. I just don't like the shield being a murder weapon.