Are Disney burying another beloved Comic brand in their petulance?
- Thread starter Uncanny Web-Slinger
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Interesting reading all the news and articles behind this. It's a VERY strange situation. Disney/Marvel trying to "starve" their own property because the movie rights lie with a rival studio? Hmmm...
The thing is, Marvel/Disney make money off of the action figure and merchandise sales as well. Maybe not as much as they would like because this deal with negotiated a long time ago, but it seems they want their properties to become a liability for other studios other than an asset. It might take a number of years for that to happen.
Marvel did all these movie studio deals a long time ago when they were suffering from Chapter 13 (or was it 11?) bankruptcy, they basically needed the money.
I think Fantastic Four is going to be at the short end of the stick here. It's one of Marvel's oldest groups and franchises with LOTS of cross-history, but it has also been one of their weakest in terms of finances, it doesn't command the profits or the attention that Spidey, the X-Men or the Avengers now all do.
The thing is, Marvel/Disney make money off of the action figure and merchandise sales as well. Maybe not as much as they would like because this deal with negotiated a long time ago, but it seems they want their properties to become a liability for other studios other than an asset. It might take a number of years for that to happen.
Marvel did all these movie studio deals a long time ago when they were suffering from Chapter 13 (or was it 11?) bankruptcy, they basically needed the money.
I think Fantastic Four is going to be at the short end of the stick here. It's one of Marvel's oldest groups and franchises with LOTS of cross-history, but it has also been one of their weakest in terms of finances, it doesn't command the profits or the attention that Spidey, the X-Men or the Avengers now all do.
Yeah, Marvel signed those franchises away out of necessity, so they really have no one to blame but themselves, and so trying to act snotty about things now screams of pettiness on its surface. But business is business, and I'm sure Disney has some strategy here. I personally don't see this kind of move doing anything re: the X-Men. Those movies bring in the bacon, merchandising or no (though they do have DOFP merchandising, and had merchandising for all the previous X-films as well). Maybe the idea really is that Fantastic Four has less room for pure film profit, since the films blow and the new franchise doesn't look all that promising so far, so they might feel more strongly pressured to sell those rights back if they have a harder time profiting from the films alone. And maybe it isn't too costly for Marvel, since the FF--as important as they are to the history of the company; Thing was once second only to Spidey in Marvel--doesn't seem like a heavy hitter at the moment.
But as much as I would like to see all the various Marvel characters together in a Secret Wars-type film at some point, I personally wouldn't want to see Marvel Studios in control of all of it at the moment. The last two X-films were damn good--as good or better than any existing Marvel Studios movie--and if that team was stuck in the same studio as the Avengers et al., then apart from Wolvie, they would probably play second fiddle to other characters. We might only get one X-film every 3 or 4 years, and as little attention as some characters get now (Cyclops, Colossus, Angel, etc.) they would get even less attention when they had to compete for screen time with 1500 other characters.
But as much as I would like to see all the various Marvel characters together in a Secret Wars-type film at some point, I personally wouldn't want to see Marvel Studios in control of all of it at the moment. The last two X-films were damn good--as good or better than any existing Marvel Studios movie--and if that team was stuck in the same studio as the Avengers et al., then apart from Wolvie, they would probably play second fiddle to other characters. We might only get one X-film every 3 or 4 years, and as little attention as some characters get now (Cyclops, Colossus, Angel, etc.) they would get even less attention when they had to compete for screen time with 1500 other characters.
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/05/31/fantastic-four-skinned-comics-marvel-entertainment-fox/
New article from Bleeding Cool. Seems to point that the main man behind this decision is Isaac Perlmutter...CEO of Marvel and the single largest shareholder of Disney. Claims that he is a "penny-pincher" yet it does bring up some good points like "any character created for X-Men and FF is basically available for free for FOX, even those created right now."
Perlmutter was the former co-owner of Toy Biz with Avi Arad, has been on Marvel's board of directors since 1993 and eventually helped bring Marvel out of bankruptcy in the late 90's. He could even be partially to blame for some of those movie studio deals along with the other Marvel executives. He and Arad eventually pushed out the rest of the Marvel executives to maintain control over the company.
This seems to make sense at some level. Perlmutter comes from a background in the toy business and understands the competitive nature at times.
Another interesting fact I pulled out of reading about him is how far back he and Arad go and this can help explain why Sony can do with Spidey what Fox isn't allowed to do with X-Men. Arad has been a producer on Sony's Spider-man series since the beginning (as well as still helps out on some Marvel projects) and given that he and Perlmutter go WAYYYYYYY back (as co-owners, former "Six Day War" vets, Jewish-Americans, comic fans, New Yorkers, etc.), he obviously is looking out a little for his "buddy" Arad. It also helps that Spider-man is Marvel's flagship character and consistently their best-selling comic book.
New article from Bleeding Cool. Seems to point that the main man behind this decision is Isaac Perlmutter...CEO of Marvel and the single largest shareholder of Disney. Claims that he is a "penny-pincher" yet it does bring up some good points like "any character created for X-Men and FF is basically available for free for FOX, even those created right now."
Perlmutter was the former co-owner of Toy Biz with Avi Arad, has been on Marvel's board of directors since 1993 and eventually helped bring Marvel out of bankruptcy in the late 90's. He could even be partially to blame for some of those movie studio deals along with the other Marvel executives. He and Arad eventually pushed out the rest of the Marvel executives to maintain control over the company.
This seems to make sense at some level. Perlmutter comes from a background in the toy business and understands the competitive nature at times.
Another interesting fact I pulled out of reading about him is how far back he and Arad go and this can help explain why Sony can do with Spidey what Fox isn't allowed to do with X-Men. Arad has been a producer on Sony's Spider-man series since the beginning (as well as still helps out on some Marvel projects) and given that he and Perlmutter go WAYYYYYYY back (as co-owners, former "Six Day War" vets, Jewish-Americans, comic fans, New Yorkers, etc.), he obviously is looking out a little for his "buddy" Arad. It also helps that Spider-man is Marvel's flagship character and consistently their best-selling comic book.
devilof76
Super Freak
Days of Future Past would have been so much better if it hadn't been tied to the previous X-Men junk. Fox has sucked at making these movies, despite the best efforts of people like Fassbender, McAvoy, Lawrence, Vaughn, and occasionally (and by that I mean a handful of moments) Jackman. After Batman, it is the finest property in all of comics, and the fact that this is the best they can do is a crying shame.
Good luck Disney.
Good luck Disney.
But one of the major apparent purposes of the movie was for Singer to disregard as much from the previous movies as he wanted to.
The Phantom
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Disney also blocking DOFP merchandise
According to Rob Liefeld, the X-Force creator:
Disney.
They can't do **** all, except destroy the comics for the comics fans while losing themselves income.
Fact is Marvel SOLD the properties away and are not getting them back. Fox didn't steal them, Marvel Sold them and without Fox, Sony and the others building the Marvel movie genre there wouldn't be any MCU.
Talk about grade A BS.
Rob Liefeld is an idiot, who doesn't know jack.
Comparing Xmen's domestic box office to Spidey's was his first mistake. Because ASM2's BO is nothing to write home about. In fact, it's the lowest to date for that franchise, so he's not doing Fox any favors.
I don't know where he's getting his information, but a quick Google search would have told him that Sony doesn't even own the merchandising rights to the Spider-Man franchise, Disney does. Those rights reverted back to DisMarv back in 2011. Sony may not get anything from the swag, but Disney is, in a way, promoting their film (something I'm sure they regret in hindsight), and probably the main reason that Spidey has the suit that fans of that film love.
As far as why there's no XMen merchandise out there? Well, why not ask Fox? Disney doesn't own those rights. Fox can make all the XM stuff they want. No one is stopping them. Hell, Disney doesn't even make figures for their own movies; Hasbro does. Disney doesn't own Hasbro, so why can't XM figures be made? Is that some conspiracy too?
There's no XM merchandise out there because evidently Fox doesn't think it's important enough. Or maybe it's because retailers don't want it. That happens too you know. Just like why the Green Lantern animated series figures weren't made; because retailers got burned on the GL film, they passed.
So is it Disney's job now to promote a movie for Fox? No, it isn't. It's Fox's job. Disney doesn't have a gun to their head. Again, Fox can do anything they want in that area. If these films are so important and so profitable to the studio, why don't they? Again, why not ask Fox?
People wonder why Hot Toys doesn't make XMen figures. Maybe it's because First Class didn't do that great, money wise. Now, I liked that movie, liked it a lot, but I don't make excuses for films. The studio has people for that.
Well why not anything for DoFP?
Look, whether you like the movie, or think it's ok, or think that it's the greatest comic book movie ever made, it did fall 65% this weekend (on top of not even being the biggest Xmen 1st week grosser) and isn't likely to regain the top spot, so would figures from that movie be that lucrative for HT? In their eyes, probably not, who knows? But if Fox wanted figures made, they would make the deal.
Another thing I keep hearing is how Disney is going to have to spend billions to get the right back for XM. When I hear that, I have to ask: why would Disney do that? When DoFP out grosses Thor 2, or Winter Soldier, or Iron Man 3, let me know. Disney's up about 2 billion just for those films, with more to come, so at this point they don't even need Spidey, or XMen, or the Fantastic Four. Maybe that's a bone of contention with the guy from Marvel, but he doesn't run the show, so he's going to have to live with that.
For now, at least.
But I can understand why it's a bone of contention to him. Because the actual fact of the matter is that Marvel didn't SELL the rights to these characters, they licensed them. Fox and Sony don't OWN them, they're renting them. So because Fox made the deal 15 YEARS ago (and Sony 13 years), they get to keep them forever? Well, as long as they keep making movies, I guess they do, and I'm sure that pisses some guys off.
In the meantime, Sony may reconsider if making Spidey movies are worth it or not, and Fox will probably keep making them, even at a loss. I don't know how long they can keep doing that, I guess time will tell.
It should be interesting to watch never the less.
In regards to the comics? Does anyone really believe that nonsense? Because if you do, I have news for you: the money earned from the monthlies wouldn't keep the lights on. It's not the late 80's- 90's anymore. The best selling titles aren't even close to the worst selling titles 25 years ago.
Don't believe it yet? Ask all the Comic shop owners that have closed their stores just in the last 5 years.
ronri
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Did a little more research myself, and supposedly there's also the possibility that Fox caused some of this tension by not coming to any sort of agreement like Sony did for their Marvel properties. In this regard, Sony rightfully gets more publicity and merchandising than Fox does by handing back some of their licenses like Ghost Rider and the Spidey animation rights.* Of course, keeping the Daredevil license and prolonging their hold onto FF didn't help their relationship either. So really in the end it's pretty much one huge circle-jerk within either respective studio.... Ughhhh
* A mixed bag for me honestly as while GR getting handed back is good, giving away the Spidey animation rights essentially cemented the cancellation of the "Spectacular Spider-Man" - a brilliant show likened by many as the BTAS of Spider-Man, and by far what I personally consider as the most definitive interpretation of the Spider-Man lore.
* A mixed bag for me honestly as while GR getting handed back is good, giving away the Spidey animation rights essentially cemented the cancellation of the "Spectacular Spider-Man" - a brilliant show likened by many as the BTAS of Spider-Man, and by far what I personally consider as the most definitive interpretation of the Spider-Man lore.
devilof76
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Is he done as a director for this franchise and are new actors going to be cast?
Because, direction and casting are the only problems I've ever had with Fox's X-Men. If he's cleaned it up so that good movies can be made (by someone else), I'm willing to give it a chance. I don't have much faith though. The overall vision that Fox has for these films is just plain weak.
ronri
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Well for one, X-Men: Apocalypse will continue on from the First Class continuity and cast (McAvoy, Fassbender, Lawrence etc.) and announcements have been made that they'll re-cast Scott, Jean, and Storm since they should be younger.
The other thing is that Bryan Singer, despite DOFP's success, might get some bad rep over the current allegations being leveled at him (whether or not that will affect his directorial position for the next X film, I have no clue).
devilof76
Super Freak
The Apocalypse scene at the end did pique my interest, that's for sure. If they're sticking to the First Class continuity, I'm even more enticed, and a new cast is most welcome. I assume Jackman will return?
ronri
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Not completely confirmed for the next film (yet) but I have heard that Jackman is still signed on for more films so I wouldn't doubt him returning (especially given the ending of DOFP).
Niltusk
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Makes sense after learning that. Why R&D for another company?
I hope Marvel drops all of their X-Men comics except one; UXM. IMO there are far too many X books on the market.
Sure Marvel sold the X-Men because they were in financial trouble and did what it thought was best at the time and they'll get their properties back eventually.
I hope Disney/Marvel does whatever it takes to get their properties back under one roof. If that means playing dirty with Fox and "starving" them...then so be it.
.
Uncanny Web-Slinger
Super Freak
Won't work. Starving the franchises will only hurt the fans.
Screw You Disney
Screw You Disney
Disney ruins everything. I mean look at this. 
https://movieseum.com/10-things-you-never-noticed-about-your-favourite-disney-movies/
https://movieseum.com/10-things-you-never-noticed-about-your-favourite-disney-movies/
Disney ruins everything. I mean look at this.
https://movieseum.com/10-things-you-never-noticed-about-your-favourite-disney-movies/
That's nothing new
devilof76
Super Freak
Won't work. Starving the franchises will only hurt the fans.
Screw You Disney
Supporting Fox with merchandise that Disney will make poor returns on is a waste of time for Disney. It would be one thing if they owned the movie rights, but they don't. Why would they bother? Because you want X-Men toys?
Disney exists to make Disney money. If you want new X-Men stories, draw and write them yourself.
Fox is saying "sorry Marvel, no movie rights," so Disney is saying, "sorry Fox, no tie-in merchandising." It's completely fair.
If Fox wants to make it worth Disney's while to distribute toys and books then they can split the IP with Disney and allow for movies that make both sides happy and for both sides to profit. If WB and MGM can work out the mess that was The Hobbit and other studios can share in the budget on certain movies like Avatar where one gets domestic profits and the other international then surely Fox can work with Disney especially since outside of movies those are *Disney's* characters.
Fans have no one to blame but Fox for all of this.
If Fox wants to make it worth Disney's while to distribute toys and books then they can split the IP with Disney and allow for movies that make both sides happy and for both sides to profit. If WB and MGM can work out the mess that was The Hobbit and other studios can share in the budget on certain movies like Avatar where one gets domestic profits and the other international then surely Fox can work with Disney especially since outside of movies those are *Disney's* characters.
Fans have no one to blame but Fox for all of this.
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