Statue Prime 1 Studio: Suicide Squad - 1/3 Harley Quinn

[jadekite22]

TBF he didn't really say (at least not directly) we should hate the piece because he hates it, but do you think that was implied because of how much he went on ranting about not buying it?

"Don't even try to say you can see Margot" read as dictation to me. The comparison to Bishoujos was also ridiculous and spun out of a conspiracy theory to "pretty her up" due to the P1 being a Japanese company. Like, what??? It's fine though. He apologized.

This was the first time I've mentioned cancelling the Hot Toy on the forum. I've been hesitant to add to the negativity because I want HT to continue to take risks with the expressive portraits, mixed media and engineering.

 

[Kamandi]

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So bland.... No character, expression, or even a resemblance to Robbie. At Prime Studio prices. Fail.

 

[epitaph04]

You know that's one of 4 sculpts right?

 

[Lawrence]

I like Prime1, but they really didn't get Margot in any of their sculpts. I can try to see her in the laughing or bubblegum sculpt, but it's only me trying to fool myself. I'm the same with their Wonder Woman. Why do they sculpt the guys so good, but mess up on the girls? I like checking up to see if they change something, like what they are apparently doing for WW. But nothing yet.

 

[Kamandi]

You know that's one of 4 sculpts right?

None of them look like Margot. The two best are the bubblegum and the smile - which HT did much better.

 

[epitaph04]

Lets see how the final products turn out. Both XM and prime have shown a willingness to alter things while in development.

 

[Darkavatar]

"Don't even try to say you can see Margot" read as dictation to me.

That's what I thought, he didn't directly say the words, but you assumed he implied it.

The comparison to Bishoujos was also ridiculous and spun out of a conspiracy theory to "pretty her up" due to the P1 being a Japanese company. Like, what??? It's fine though. He apologized.

Yes i thought that was a weird theory to, I don't get why he couldn't see the most logical reasoning would be that they simply couldn't nail likeness of Margot, like they could with Smith.

This was the first time I've mentioned cancelling the Hot Toy on the forum. I've been hesitant to add to the negativity because I want HT to continue to take risks with the expressive portraits, mixed media and engineering.

Ok fair enough

So bland.... No character, expression, or even a resemblance to Robbie. At Prime Studio prices. Fail.

I agree with u about the blandness but I can see some resemblance to Robbie, l wouldn't say its strong, but I can tell it's her. Similar to how I feel about Hot Toys WW sculpt, I don't think the likeness is great but I can tell it's her. However, lets point out the clear flaws on this sculpt.

1. Eyes are too small, Margo has quite large eyes.

2. Mouth shape is inaccurate as Robbie doesn't have cupid bow lips.

3. Face out of proportion as it's too elongated, making the nose too long.

TBH I don't think it looks a thing like her when I see the sculpt from a distant, it's only in that pic I posted is where I see some likeness.

I like Prime1, but they really didn't get Margot in any of their sculpts. I can try to see her in the laughing or bubblegum sculpt, but it's only me trying to fool myself.

I will admit the likeness isn't good but I don't think it looks nothing at all like her.

I'm the same with their Wonder Woman. Why do they sculpt the guys so good, but mess up on the girls? I like checking up to see if they change something, like what they are apparently doing for WW. But nothing yet.

Haven't you seen the latest teaser? It looks just like her, granted they only show pretty much half her face.

None of them look like Margot.

I would say none of them have a great likeness to Margot.

The two best are the bubblegum and the smile - which HT did much better.

Well the bubblegum is covering up her mouth and the smile one is capturing the character, which is why the likeness looks better on those sculpts. Similar to how people think Sideshows Joker looks like Ledger because of the Joker expression.

 

[jadekite22]

I would say none of them have a great likeness to Margot.



Well the bubblegum is covering up her mouth and the smile one is capturing the character, which is why the likeness looks better on those sculpts. Similar to how people think Sideshows Joker looks like Ledger because of the Joker expression.

I'd also argue, and argued previously on this thread, that it's P1's lighting on the site photos doing a complete disservice to the portraits. I'll try not to repeat any of those points, but my main point is similar to how Michael Crawford, who posts his reviews here and on mwctoys.com, evaluates likeness versus "lifelike-ness". If you look at the Deadshot site photos, Will Smith's likeness is unquestionably there because it's more distinct, retains his characteristically goofy-looking (IMO) serious facial expression and has painted details like his beard stubble that are dark enough not to get washed out in the overlighting. However, comparing it to the Hot Toy, which has a more blank expression, the HT looks more lifelike because the overlighting against the translucent skin on the P1 site photos gives it a porcelain doll effect. Even the masked portrait, which I'm sure has the same if not more sculpted detail as the HT to replicate the fabric texture, looks plasticky due to how the lighting is reflecting off it. Once you see the unrealness of it, it's almost impossible to unsee.

This hurts Harley and other female pieces with translucent resin portraits more because they lack the details to compensate for the waxy look overlit photography gives them. If the first poorly lit in-hand photos of 1:2 Superman and Joker didn't also suffer from this, I would be more willing to concede Harley's likeness is off more than the HT. But I think it's evident how much properly lit in hand photos of the latter did for the likeness regardless of how one feels about the the statue's bored expression. This is 100% Ledger: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWGHOTblkcc/

The HT Harley, to me, misses on two marks, both slight (like I said, I love the sculpt overall): the back teeth are too prominent and the eyes are too small. I believe I understand how both happened and that's from the sculpt being based around the limited promo materials they likely had to work with . . . including the exact photo they based the sculpt on, which ended up on the Empire magazine cover. That photo doesn't show the back teeth at all. However, if HT didn't sculpt them, it would've been seen as oversight for a portrait this detailed, similar to how some owners are commenting about the back of the mouth being noticeably connected to the tongue in one piece. Robbie's molars do show when you're staring straight into her gaping smile in certain scenes, but not at every angle like the HT (Google image search "margot robbie harley quinn laughing." Her tongue covers her back teeth in all but this one GIF and the HT still looks comparatively exaggerated. The recent BVS Wonder Woman appears to have exaggerated Gadot's front teeth for that specific expression as well.) Same issues with the negatively-received prison outfit version: just the eyes being too small and the lips being too round is enough to throw it off and make it look like a clownish caricature of her when I'd argue the sculpt is otherwise on par with the first.

The P1 statue however gets those two elements right, or at least better (the eyes might actually still be too small compared to Robbie's huge blinkers.) The less-prominent bottom teeth maintain Robbie's squarish jawline compared to the HT. Expand these two images of neutral-faced Robbie and the statue to full size and see there's much more than a passable resemblance even without a characteristic expression. The lifelikeness however is thrown off by the thick hair sculpt (which is I why I supported Wonder Woman's rooted hair at these larger scales) and the lack or visible porous skin texture when you don't view the photos at full size, creating an unnatural-looking sheen that I would doubt is the case in-person based on how the Arkham Knight version turned out.

All this said, I'm all for people being vocally critical of the head sculpts. The 1:2 Wonder Woman prototype was barely passable in even the best photos, so I'm glad P1 is willing to rework the portrait unlike Sideshow and the aforementioned Pfeifer Catwoman. Whatever gets me a better product in-hand is fine by me. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you. We've been through the bad photography game with the entirety of P1's output, to the point of having a "Do P1 pieces look like big plastic toys" thread on the other forum, which I almost swore was a troll post. It's unfortunate P1's own photography might be to blame here, which is why I'm optimistic for Wonderfest.

 

[Lawrence]

Haven't you seen the latest teaser? It looks just like her, granted they only show pretty much half her face.

Latest pic I saw was this:

 

[CallMeTheDoctor]

Latest pic I saw was this:

He waz talking about the one before this one. Whoever took this picture did a horrible job.

 

[Darkavatar]

I'd also argue, and argued previously on this thread, that it's P1's lighting on the site photos doing a complete disservice to the portraits. I'll try not to repeat any of those points, but my main point is similar to how Michael Crawford, who posts his reviews here and on mwctoys.com, evaluates likeness versus "lifelike-ness". If you look at the Deadshot site photos, Will Smith's likeness is unquestionably there because it's more distinct, retains his characteristically goofy-looking (IMO) serious facial expression and has painted details like his beard stubble that are dark enough not to get washed out in the overlighting. However, comparing it to the Hot Toy, which has a more blank expression, the HT looks more lifelike because the overlighting against the translucent skin on the P1 site photos gives it a porcelain doll effect. Even the masked portrait, which I'm sure has the same if not more sculpted detail as the HT to replicate the fabric texture, looks plasticky due to how the lighting is reflecting off it. Once you see the unrealness of it, it's almost impossible to unsee.

Yes I know people get confused with Lifelike-ness and likeness, which is why some sculpts that are very realistic don't have great likeness but people think they do because of how life like they look.

This hurts Harley and other female pieces with translucent resin portraits more because they lack the details to compensate for the waxy look overlit photography gives them. If the first poorly lit in-hand photos of 1:2 Superman and Joker didn't also suffer from this, I would be more willing to concede Harley's likeness is off more than the HT. But I think it's evident how much properly lit in hand photos of the latter did for the likeness regardless of how one feels about the the statue's bored expression.

Actually I always thought both Supes and Joker sculpts looked spot on from even the poorly lit pictures. Then again I am not one of those people who get lifelessness confused with likeness.

This is 100% Ledger: https://www.instagram.com/p/BWGHOTblkcc/

It sure looks it, but I bet if u do a comparison pic you would find how off it is. I really hate that simple paint job on that sculpt, you would think some company like Blitzway painted that but not Prime. The paint job is worse than Hot Toys sculpts, despite how pretty it looks, there is no blending of the make up.

The HT Harley, to me, misses on two marks, both slight (like I said, I love the sculpt overall): the back teeth are too prominent and the eyes are too small.

Given her expression, I don't think her eyes are too small because she is some what squinting when she smiles like that.

I believe I understand how both happened and that's from the sculpt being based around the limited promo materials they likely had to work with . . . including the exact photo they based the sculpt on, which ended up on the Empire magazine cover. That photo doesn't show the back teeth at all. However, if HT didn't sculpt them, it would've been seen as oversight for a portrait this detailed, similar to how some owners are commenting about the back of the mouth being noticeably connected to the tongue in one piece. Robbie's molars do show when you're staring straight into her gaping smile in certain scenes, but not at every angle like the HT (Google image search "margot robbie harley quinn laughing." Her tongue covers her back teeth in all but this one GIF and the HT still looks comparatively exaggerated.

Wow you really know everything about Robbie's mouth, no wonder you think Hot Toys is off. I just know her facial structure. Speaking of the empire magazine, her eyes look as small as Hot Toys there.

The recent BVS Wonder Woman appears to have exaggerated Gadot's front teeth for that specific expression as well.)

Well the teeth are the least of the problems with that sculpt, but that's another story.

Same issues with the negatively-received prison outfit version: just the eyes being too small and the lips being too round is enough to throw it off and make it look like a clownish caricature of her when I'd argue the sculpt is otherwise on par with the first.

It might be on par overall, but the facial likeness is better on the smiley one.

The P1 statue however gets those two elements right, or at least better (the eyes might actually still be too small compared to Robbie's huge blinkers.) The less-prominent bottom teeth maintain Robbie's squarish jawline compared to the HT.

I don't know the jawline still looks rather round even on Primes. Regardless, I think the core facial likeness of Harley is better on Hot Toys, despite if the face shape is inaccurate.

Expand these two images of neutral-faced Robbie and the statue to full size and see there's much more than a passable resemblance even without a characteristic expression.

Coincidentally, that is the exact image I downloaded when people bashed my post where I said I could see Harley and so I compared the pic to that image. This is why I said I could still see Harley.

The lifelikeness however is thrown off by the thick hair sculpt (which is I why I supported Wonder Woman's rooted hair at these larger scales) and the lack or visible porous skin texture when you don't view the photos at full size, creating an unnatural-looking sheen that I would doubt is the case in-person based on how the Arkham Knight version turned out.

The problem with "rooted" hair on resin pieces is that it looks more like a wig.

All this said, I'm all for people being vocally critical of the head sculpts. The 1:2 Wonder Woman prototype was barely passable in even the best photos, so I'm glad P1 is willing to rework the portrait unlike Sideshow and the aforementioned Pfeifer Catwoman. Whatever gets me a better product in-hand is fine by me. Just don't expect everyone to agree with you.

Is that directed towards me? Or are you talking about people in general?

We've been through the bad photography game with the entirety of P1's output, to the point of having a "Do P1 pieces look like big plastic toys" thread on the other forum, which I almost swore was a troll post.

What a stupid thread, especially since the head sculpts are made out of Translucent resin, which gives it that soft silicon skin like effect, as opposed to hard plastic look toy sculpts have. Primes sculpts, especially Superman have the same soft look to them that the wax figures from madame tussauds have.

It's unfortunate P1's own photography might be to blame here, which is why I'm optimistic for Wonderfest.

Well for your sake I hope your right.

 

[Darkavatar]

He waz talking about the one before this one. Whoever took this picture did a horrible job.

Hence why I said, it only showed half the face.

Just so there is no confusion I was talking about this one.

 

[jadekite22]

Sorry, darkavatar. Most of my post was not directed toward you. I have trouble doing the multi-quote formatting on my tablet. Your arguments are sound. Although I disagree about Joker's paint app. I understand the discrepancy some have with it because they changed the pose to match the poster but the face they sculpted is not as disheveled (they seemed to be going for a more subtly sinister look with the original pose.) It's accurate to his cleaner look in the fundraiser scene, where the overhead lighting was doing more work than the running makeup in later scenes to make him appear more menacing.

 

[Darkavatar]

Sorry, darkavatar. Most of my post was not directed toward you. I have trouble doing the multi-quote formatting on my tablet.

It's ok man just wanted to make sure since people were actually bashing my post for saying Primes still looks like Harley.

Your arguments are sound.

Thanks I feel the same way about yours.

Although I disagree about Joker's paint app. I understand the discrepancy some have with it because they changed the pose to match the poster but the face they sculpted is not as disheveled (they seemed to be going for a more subtly sinister look with the original pose.) It's accurate to his cleaner look in the fundraiser scene, where the overhead lighting was doing more work than the running makeup in later scenes to make him appear more menacing.

View attachment 351788

The problem isn't the accuracy per se with it, it's how they applied it, like people have said is that in particular around the eyes the make up doesn't fade out, it looks like the lines around the eyes have been drawn on, just like how Blitzways Bruce Lee battle scars looked too simple like decals. That's the reason why people want it repainted.

This is how it should look.









Not neat like this

 

[jadekite22]

It's ok man just wanted to make sure since people were actually bashing my post for saying Primes still looks like Harley.



Thanks I feel the same way about yours.




The problem isn't the accuracy per se with it, it's how they applied it, like people have said is that in particular around the eyes the make up doesn't fade out, it looks like the lines around the eyes have been drawn on, just like how Blitzways Bruce Lee battle scars looked too simple like decals. That's the reason why people want it repainted.

This is how it should look.

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Not neat like this

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I do see what you mean on the crow marks just under the eyes, but I think the blending on the eyebrows and mouth look sound. I honestly had to look harder between enlarged photos of the statue and film screenshots than I would look if I owned the statue--which I something I mentioned when debating the likeness with ukshaun on the other forum when Harley first went up for PO--to ascertain the difference. The first photos of what I suspect are the prototype (hard to tell) look worse because the black wiped/drawn into those crow marks. The wrinkles in the later ones look more like they should, like the white paint cracked/lost its hold where his eyes and forehead wrinkled. The proto can't seem to decide if wants to create that effect around the eyes or one of face paint bleeding.



I also didn't mind the claw marks on Blitzway Bruce, which looked like fresh cuts to me, but I do think both people's customizations and the 1:4 Enterbay were superior in that regard (I went for the Game of the Death version instead) and the sweat drips were awful.

 

[dw316]

Latest pic I saw was this:

She looks like she just woke up and sex

 

[jadekite22]

She looks like she just woke up and sex

Probably not inaccurate to a certain scene in the solo film

With that said, once you get past the horror show photography, the likeness is much improved. The hair sits further back and flatter on the head--like it did in BvS--compared to the prototype. The lighting is accentuating the added wrinkling too much (giving it the worn, sleepy look) but it's accurate to crow's feet and smile lines she does have, even in a neutral expression, which the proto lacked, making the likeness look vague and doll-like:

 

[Darkavatar]

I do see what you mean on the crow marks just under the eyes, but I think the blending on the eyebrows and mouth look sound.

I can agree with that.

I honestly had to look harder between enlarged photos of the statue and film screenshots than I would look if I owned the statue--which I something I mentioned when debating the likeness with ukshaun on the other forum when Harley first went up for PO--to ascertain the difference.

I think would have to disagree with you there, having neat streaks coming out of the eyes just looks way too obvious, especially at such a large scale.

The first photos of what I suspect are the prototype (hard to tell) look worse because the black wiped/drawn into those crow marks

Yes its the proto, and I was so excited to buy this, because it looked so dam real, which why I am gutted that the make up on the product looks like black paint with decals. I don't think it looks worse that the paint is drawn into the crow marks, more like inaccurate to the scene, but realistic nonetheless.

The wrinkles in the later ones look more like they should, like the white paint cracked/lost its hold where his eyes and forehead wrinkled.

View attachment 351815

Yes that area is accurate but your pic proves what I have said, the make up underneath the eyes fades out as it goes from black to brown, unlike the paint job on Prime's product, which just looks like black paint with grey/flesh streaks coming out around the eyes in the pics I posted, it's just way too neat. Ledger's make up was never neat not even the Mob Make up.

The proto can't seem to decide if wants to create that effect around the eyes or one of face paint bleeding.

Maybe, but it still looks more realistic than product, even if it's inaccurate. I would rather something that was not totally accurate, (granted not as inaccurate as EBs) but had a good paint job as opposed to something that was accurate as far as style goes but was painted in a way where it looked like it had been printed on and lacked any kind of detail.

I also didn't mind the claw marks on Blitzway Bruce, which looked like fresh cuts to me, but I do think both people's customizations and the 1:4 Enterbay were superior in that regard (I went for the Game of the Death version instead) and the sweat drips were awful.

Yes me to, and you are right the sweat drops were awful. The claw marks on the face were all right but the ones on the body just looked weird, IMO they didn't look like cuts, more like red streaks just put on there, due the simple neat design.

 

[jadekite22]

Yes its the proto, and I was so excited to buy this, because it looked so dam real, which why I am gutted that the make up on the product looks like black paint with decals. I don't think it looks worse that the paint is drawn into the crow marks, more like inaccurate to the scene, but realistic nonetheless.




Yes that area is accurate but your pic proves what I have said, the make up underneath the eyes fades out as it goes from black to brown, unlike the paint job on Prime's product, which just looks like black paint with grey/flesh streaks coming out around the eyes in the pics I posted, it's just way too neat. Ledger's make up was never neat not even the Mob Make up.

Studying the screenshots way more than I ever intended I noticed Joker's makeup in the fundraiser scene is much cleaner than in the mob scene you referenced, so I respectfully stand by my point regarding the face paint appearing accurate to how it looked then, even if that doesn't match the pose. I get what you mean though about the promo image proving your point (good catch) but it also makes me realize the black streaking effect around the eyes is more exaggerated for effect at times (probably to look more anarchic/mimic how it would look if he quickly applied the black grease paint in two strokes with his fingers) whereas it's more even in others to represent the two black-dot smiley face eyes and call attention to the crookedness of the red smile which traces his mouth scars. Very interesting to discover.

The more I look at the proto versus the production, I notice the neatness directly around eyelids on both, so I'm not sure how much the lighting and angles are contributing to the differences you're seeing. I can convince myself if I struggle, but the fact that I'm struggling tells me the issue, at least to my eyes, is not serious enough to throw off the likeness or become a dealbreaker. I'm sorry the piece disappointed you, similar to how just the lower chest symbol on Supes was enough for some people. I guess because I give equal consideration to the engineering aspects such as tailoring and assembly (which I'm not saying you don't. Others have expressed the "dressing" as a turn-off, but I think it's genius from a shipping/longevity perspective whereas the choices made with recent Hot Toys like Harley and WW seem counter to that) so I would want to own this as an impressive achievement on that front. Same with Harley, which both you and I have expressed really nails the character, likeness aside. I almost picked up the Arkham Knight version for just that reason (and those portraits weren't even trying to resemble the game model) but I'm not a fan of the lolita costume.

 

[Darkavatar]

Studying the screenshots way more than I ever intended I noticed Joker's makeup in the fundraiser scene is much cleaner than in the mob scene you referenced, so I respectfully stand by my point regarding the face paint appearing accurate to how it looked then, even if that doesn't match the pose.

Only mentioned the Mob make up because most people think that is the cleanest look as the dark patches around the eyes don't blend in as much and look more like black large spots as it doesn't fade out like the fundraiser style does.



Which is why Bobby painted his quite neatly, with the exception of the dripping.



I am not trying to debate this with you, just saying that's the reason why people think its cleaner, even if it isn't.

I get what you mean though about the promo image proving your point (good catch)

Thanks!

but it also makes me realize the black streaking effect around the eyes is more exaggerated for effect at times (probably to look more anarchic/mimic how it would look if he quickly applied the black grease paint in two strokes with his fingers) whereas it's more even in others to represent the two black-dot smiley face eyes and call attention to the crookedness of the red smile which traces his mouth scars. Very interesting to discover.

Not to sound like a broken record, but its way too neat, the streaks look like they have been printed on, that's my problem, no matter how neat the Joker make up can look it should never look as neat as it does in this pic.



The neatness looks more like make up a member from Kiss would wear, where it's obvious what the pattern is because the design is so simple. In this case it looks like they painted sun like pattern around his eyes.

The more I look at the proto versus the production, I notice the neatness directly around eyelids on both, so I'm not sure how much the lighting and angles are contributing to the differences you're seeing.

Well at first I thought they were just grey streaks on the product, then when better pictures came out it actually showed some flesh tones in them, so in that regard lighting can be a factor, as I don't think I have never seen a high quality picture with the head tilted down from front on to see if the make up actually fades from black to brown like it should underneath the eyes. Nevertheless, if I had to bet, on whether it does or not I would say it doesn't and that the make up around the eyes is just black with grey/flesh tone streaks coming out.

I would love to debate about this more with you but I think we need to end this for two things. One we are in the wrong thread and another I don't think neither of us will ever agree that Prime simply messed up and cut major corners, by putting very little detail in the make up around the eyes. Just reminds me of Blitxways ETD "decal" cuts.

I'm sorry the piece disappointed you, similar to how just the lower chest symbol on Supes was enough for some people.

I honestly don't get why that bothers people so much I would love to own that piece, regardless of how low the Chest Symbol is. It's Prime's best product IMO as it nearly looks like the real thing.

I guess because I give equal consideration to the engineering aspects such as tailoring and assembly (which I'm not saying you don't.

Well just to clarify, I do, overall the Joker is an impressive piece when it comes to all those aspects you mentioned.

Others have expressed the "dressing" as a turn-off, but I think it's genius from a shipping/longevity perspective

I think those are people that are purely statues collectors and are not use to kitbashing and dressing up dolls, like 1/6th collectors are.

whereas the choices made with recent Hot Toys like Harley and WW seem counter to that) so I would want to own this as an impressive achievement on that front.

Counter it in what way?

Same with Harley, which both you and I have expressed really nails the character, likeness aside. I almost picked up the Arkham Knight version for just that reason (and those portraits weren't even trying to resemble the game model) but I'm not a fan of the lolita costume.

For the character alone?