Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[ronri]

 

[Dylan]

I love the memes for PP and GZ. It makes some of the awful dialogue at least entertaining.

 

[Solidus]

There's one thing I never got this game. How is it that Ocelot is so friendly and righteous? It's implied he raped Meryl in MGS 1, he shot Olga's father in the head in MGS 2. But, in MGS V, he's like "he [Huey] also stands accused of murdering one of his own family", and he also defended Quiet when Miller wanted to kill her. How does the Ocelot in MGS V logically progress into the villain for the future games in the timeline?

Even Ocelot in MGS 3 was off the wall and unpredictable. But, it's like he's on downers in MGS V.

 

[pturtle]

He’s not really a villain in most of the games though and he was pretty much playing another role in this game like he does in every other game.

Spoiler:

He wanted to torture Eli for information was about to shoot him before he made his escape. He also devised Big Boss’ and Venom’s escape using innocent soldiers as distractions to get them out.

 

[ronri]

There's one thing I never got this game. How is it that Ocelot is so friendly and righteous? It's implied he raped Meryl in MGS 1, he shot Olga's father in the head in MGS 2. But, in MGS V, he's like "he [Huey] also stands accused of murdering one of his own family", and he also defended Quiet when Miller wanted to kill her. How does the Ocelot in MGS V logically progress into the villain for the future games in the timeline?

Ocelot used to have shades of that "dirty old man" archetype that's pretty prevalent in Japan. That slowly faded out of existence as MGS3 painted him in a more goofy/dorky light. He's still pretty twisted (he practically got off BB getting tortured in MGS3 for crying out loud), even if he's more romanticized now than he was before. I still stand by the notion that while Ocelot certainly helped Snake get rid of The Patriots in MGS4, the absolute goal he had in his mind (Outer Heaven) was far more grim than the one we actually got (thanks Sunny). You don't seem that evil when you had a clear hand in helping the hero after all, even if his intentions and heart were in a different place (BB-worshiping and all that).

He’s not really a villain in most of the games though and he was pretty much playing another role in this game like he does in every other game.

This is a pretty big point. Most of Ocelot's role in this game is still a ruse, a role that he had to play up.

Sure he's cooperative but I also find that he's a lot less friendly towards Venom Snake for very obvious reasons.

 

[GasparZizou]

He’s not really a villain in most of the games though and he was pretty much playing another role in this game like he does in every other game.

Spoiler:

He wanted to torture Eli for information was about to shoot him before he made his escape. He also devised Big Boss’ and Venom’s escape using innocent soldiers as distractions to get them out.

Exactly, he was at all times the opposite of Miller, which makes sense, I thought he was out of character until I listened to the truth tapes, then it all made sense, he was playing a part like he always does. And Ocelot is always pretty tamed when addressing his "superiors" or associates.

I think the biggest flaw of the character was Troy Barker's lack of Ocelot's classic oddball flair, he was pretty dull as a performer, like others have said he didn't even try masquerading his own voice, but the character itself was well written.

 

[ronri]

I think the biggest flaw of the character was Troy Barker's lack of Ocelot's classic oddball flair, he was pretty dull as a performer, like others have said he didn't even try masquerading his own voice, but the character itself was well written.

This was my problem as well. Ocelot's lines are fine, but this is definitely not one of Troy Baker's best showings as a voice actor. He sounded bored most of the time, even when his lines called for more personality in the delivery.

 

[GasparZizou]

This was my problem as well. Ocelot's lines are fine, but this is definitely not one of Troy Baker's best showings as a voice actor. He sounded bored most of the time, even when his lines called for more personality in the delivery.

Yeah, bored and boring, like he was only there to cash-in.

And now he's doing a strike because voice actors are "under-appreciated" in gaming

 

[pturtle]

Exactly, he was at all times the opposite of Miller, which makes sense, I thought he was out of character until I listened to the truth tapes, then it all made sense, he was playing a part like he always does. And Ocelot is always pretty tamed when addressing his "superiors" or associates.

I think the biggest flaw of the character was Troy Barker's lack of Ocelot's classic oddball flair, he was pretty dull as a performer, like others have said he didn't even try masquerading his own voice, but the character itself was well written.

I thought everyone was out of character until I listened to those tapes

That was my main problem with the game, once I hit the ending, everything made sense.

 

[GasparZizou]

I thought it was pretty cool because this game really made me realize how tiny Solid Snake is in all this, yet he still managed to **** up this gigantic conspiracy time and time again, like throwing a wrench into a humongous propeller, a tough ass wrench it made me gain a new appreciation for both Big Boss and Solid Snake.

And Liquid too, Eli was one of my favorite characters of the game.

I would have loved to see that "You weren't supposed to make it this far" moment between BB and Solid Snake remade.

 

[Solidus]

He’s not really a villain in most of the games though and he was pretty much playing another role in this game like he does in every other game.

Spoiler:

He wanted to torture Eli for information was about to shoot him before he made his escape. He also devised Big Boss’ and Venom’s escape using innocent soldiers as distractions to get them out.

Wasn't Ocelot in this game against physical torture? He said prolonging an interrogation would hurt both the person being questioned and the interrogator. Whereas in MGS 1 he practically enjoys it when he's electrocuting Snake. And then again in MGS 4, when he stabbed Snake with his electro-knife and enjoyed shocking him.

It's strange to see him develop morals all of a sudden, when he never had them in the previous games. The soldiers in the hospital weren't innocent, though... .

Ocelot used to have shades of that "dirty old man" archetype that's pretty prevalent in Japan. That slowly faded out of existence as MGS3 painted him in a more goofy/dorky light. He's still pretty twisted (he practically got off BB getting tortured in MGS3 for crying out loud), even if he's more romanticized now than he was before. I still stand by the notion that while Ocelot certainly helped Snake get rid of The Patriots in MGS4, the absolute goal he had in his mind (Outer Heaven) was far more grim than the one we actually got (thanks Sunny). You don't seem that evil when you had a clear hand in helping the hero after all, even if his intentions and heart were in a different place (BB-worshiping and all that).


This is a pretty big point. Most of Ocelot's role in this game is still a ruse, a role that he had to play up.

Sure he's cooperative but I also find that he's a lot less friendly towards Venom Snake for very obvious reasons.

I probably should stop trying to figure out this character. His roles are way too schizophrenic, and even the sudden flip he did in MGS 4 (where his evil actions were for the greater good to destroy the Patriots) was pulled right out of left field.

He seems to fit whatever role's necessary for him, even if it doesn't make sense.

 

[ronri]

MGSV definitely put Solid Snake in a better light, especially in how his unrelenting conviction, even with the manipulations, managed to right Big Boss's wrongs.

While it doesn't seem to be the most popular opinion here, I actually liked Liquid, Mantis and even "Man On Fire" (ahem) in this game, so much so that I thought they made a number of moments enjoyable for me. "Man On Fire" may be over-the-top but it's the absurdity and lack of proper scientific explanation that reminded me of the old MGS where everything isn't just explained through nanomachines and parasites but through some in-your-face supernatural symbolism coupled with some f'd up experimentation.

 

[GasparZizou]

I absolutely loved Mantis and Eli, I wish we had at least that last mission 51.

I liked the man on fire but he was less of a character and more of a weapon.

 

[ronri]

I absolutely loved Mantis and Eli, I wished we had at least that last mission 51.

I liked the man on fire but he was less of a character and more of a weapon.

Mission 51 really did it for me. Really served to reinforce my liking for the two.

Man On Fire was definitely less of a character and more of a weapon, but I like that Kojima remembered him enough to actually use him as an "echo" to Big Boss and what it means for his future. While their personalities greatly differed, it's worth noting that he might as well have served as the chronological prototype for what Big Boss ends up doing (form his army and build a nuclear deterrent). It's pretty damning when BB develops similarities to that guy considering how he was the catalyst to screwing up The Boss's original mission.

 

[pturtle]

Miller was my favorite character, I felt pretty terrible for the guy by once he finds everything out, he and Venom end up having a lot in common at the end once you find everything out.

Only character I really didn’t care for was Code Talker.

 

[ronri]

Miller was my favorite character, I felt pretty terrible for the guy by once he finds everything out, he and Venom end up having a lot in common at the end once you find everything out.

It's funny, I never liked Miller in PW but I feel like he really shined in this one, especially the voice-acting.

 

[pturtle]

It's funny, I never liked Miller in PW but I feel like he really shined in this one, especially the voice-acting.

Same here, I actually liked him in Portable Ops more than I did Peace Walker.

One thing I’m still confused about, is Miller blind? The game never really gives us answer on that.

 

[GasparZizou]

Miller was my favorite character, I felt pretty terrible for the guy by once he finds everything out, he and Venom end up having a lot in common at the end once you find everything out.

Only character I really didn’t care for was Code Talker.

Really? Not even after the tapes? I liked him a lot, and I found his "research" about parasites to be very interesting, not to mention he was probably the biggest exponent of the race theme.

And the burger tapes were kinda funny.

I guess I just like wise old people.

Same here, I actually liked him in Portable Ops more than I did Peace Walker.

One thing I’m still confused about, is Miller blind? The game never really gives us answer on that.

I think he is, he's always wearing sun-glasses and has the same glassy eyes without pupils code talker and BB have.

 

[ronri]

Same here, I actually liked him in Portable Ops more than I did Peace Walker.

One thing I’m still confused about, is Miller blind? The game never really gives us answer on that.

I thought that too, but his reactions/mannerisms felt ambiguous enough that he didn't seem like it either.

I've seen some people say it's just the way they rendered his eyes that made them look so pale...

 

[Solidus]

Really? Not even after the tapes? I liked him a lot, and I found his "research" about parasites to be very interesting, not to mention he was probably the biggest exponent of the race theme.

And the burger tapes were kinda funny.

I guess I just like wise old people.



I think he is, he's always wearing sun-glasses and has the same glassy eyes without pupils code talker and BB have.

You actually listened to all of Code Talker's tapes?