Star Wars: Ahsoka

[ajp4mgs]

I must say I'm a bit surprised at the sentiment from some PT fans that my interpretation "ruins" those scenes. As if Anakin's story was incomplete unless he somehow returned...wasn't his appearance at the Endor celebration enough? I would think more would be happy at the notion that the Force (and by extension much of the mythology of SW) is ambiguous and cool again...

PT fans are presumably also OT fans, so yeah, there shouldn't be any need for better Anakin closure than the end of ROTJ. And by virtue of being OT fans, they should also have no problem embracing the lore consistency of the Force itself facilitating a vision experience for those who have learned to connect with it. To the contrary, having the real Anakin willingly show himself in Vader gear *should* make them hesitant to embrace that, IMO.

Even just metaphorically, there are superficial parallels that someone could point to. Luke having to literally descend into his cave test matches Ahsoka descending into hers. And smoke/fog/mist being an ambient part of the murky environment/aesthetic is present in both. Also, Luke having to see himself in Vader as part of his vision lines up with Ahsoka seeing through Sith eyes as part of hers; both instances showing how acting out of fear (and ultimately aggression) will control their destinies if they let it.

And if there are any reservations about why Luke failed his test but Ahsoka passed hers, look no further than Luke's test taking place where the dark side was the dominant Force energy. There's no such indication of that in Ahsoka's case.

 

[Buttmunch]

Just hoping when Hot Toys does Ahsoka in white that we get a smiling headsculpt.

Because that worked so well on their Doc Ock? No thanks. A slight smirk, sure, but no teeth please.

 

[The Buffinator]

This was Filoni's version of a Christmas Carol and Anakin was playing each of the Ghosts.

View attachment 662759

I kid, if that take makes sense to you and allows you to enjoy it more than far be it from me to say you're wrong. And I readily admit that Filoni himself may very well back up your claims the very next time he opens his mouth, lol.

Well If you're not going to do it....

B-Man, you're WRONG!!!!

 

[Khev]

PT fans are presumably also OT fans, so yeah, there shouldn't be any need for better Anakin closure than the end of ROTJ.

Maybe they've enjoyed bad SW for so long that lore being presented correctly just feels wrong to them?

And I'm totally fine with Ahsoka passing her test where Luke failed his because she had decades of education and training under her belt and was probably well aware of such tests and what to expect compared to Luke who was all "WTF, DARTH VADER IS HERE?!??"

 

[JAWS]

There's no denying that the best SW is ANH + ESB or the theatrical OT if you want the nice closure that ROTJ brings.

But this latest episode might be the second best thing after that.

The first 30 minutes basically made the entirety of the PT and TCW dare I say "worth it." Not bad for what is essentially a filler episode.

TCW was always worth it. Ahsoka just enhanced TCW and like TCW made the PT more tolerable.

Lol was it 2020 when rise of skywalker came out and we were all arguing with khev and jye how the pt stomps the st and how the clone wars and other lore heightens the pt experience but they wouldn’t hear it? I’m glad khev watched clone wars and now is enjoying Ashoka lol

I been thinking about that. In that time I find the ST to be just as bad as the PT but feel the ST could be assisted with “filling in the blanks” like TCW and Rebels did with the PT.

I enjoy when there are hints of the PT. Some backstory and set up might help the ST feel more as Khev says “worth it”

Honestly that final season of TCW that came out a couple years ago did a lot to redeem the PT but these new scenes from Ahsoka are what I wished the PT had been all along.

Omg yes. Hayden’s acting in this episode was better than anything he offered in the PT. The look and feel was better and all performances make you wonder how great the PT could have been.

Seeing an adult write some PT era scenes just makes it WORSE.

I can watch the ST over again, not because the story is better, it just has more cool scenes and is better made and acted.

Heres a question for the group, was that REALLY Anakin, or was that Asokas mind reconciling her feeling for Anakin?

It sort of seems to be the latter, and not some force ghost.

People keep saying Anakin taught her this or that, but I do not think it was Anakin, just Ashoka's inner dialogue reconciling her traumatic childhood.

I just find the ST worse because ultimately it went nowhere and offered nothing to SW. At least the PT had a direction it was going.

PT acting and filmmaking was better but the story was worse.

Anyways

The last few episodes of Ahsoka has been the first thing in since The Pod Race, Duel of the fates and Vader in RO that has made me feel like I was watching some classic SW. Hans return in TROS was close but none of those have really aged well.

And while Duel of the Fates may be more flashy than OT saber duels, it entertained me like the OT

 

[Khev]

TCW was always worth it. Ahsoka just enhanced TCW and like TCW made the PT more tolerable.

I been thinking about that. In that time I find the ST to be just as bad as the PT but feel the ST could be assisted with “filling in the blanks” like TCW and Rebels did with the PT.

I enjoy when there are hints of the PT. Some backstory and set up might help the ST feel more as Khev says “worth it”

Like you said the story for the PT was always there it just needed to be executed better which we finally got with Ahsoka. Why oh why did George not give us a "Captain America: The First Avenger" style montage of Anakin and Obi-Wan just fighting a string of battles on different worlds to showcase their journey and growth and give a ton of cool and exotic moments I'll never know. But Filoni has largely corrected that mistake in one fell swoop.

The ST might be trickier to "salvage" for the people who didn't like it since unlike the PT their main problem with the story was what was shown instead of what was left out. A montage of "yo mama" jokes that are actually funny won't exactly do the trick in the same way that extra footage of the Clone Wars did.

Plus there's the fact that TFA and TROS seem to both be in direct conflict with TLJ with even ST fans being divided on those so not only would they have to find a way to elevate the ST they'd have to do it in a way that elevates and better intertwines Abrams' work with that of Johnson. No small task.

I just find the PT worse because ultimately it went nowhere and offered nothing to SW. At least the PT had a direction it was going.

PT acting and filmmaking was better but the story was worse.

I assume that the ST was supposed to fit somewhere up there unless it was the PT that both went nowhere and had a direction with better acting than itself and a worse story, lol.

 

[DioramaMaker]

I would be willing to bet that if this drums up enough positive buzz, Disney will greenlight SOME form of the Clone Wars in live action.

Maybe a greatest hits miniseries, rather than retreading the whole animated series? There's no way they'd do the whole thing from scratch. Though, a live action, abridged series that spans a few seasons and cuts out the Sunday morning cartoon filler (that for syndication obviously had to be included, that's not a jab) sounds pretty awesome.

There's always going to be folks who refuse to watch cartoons because they're too good for it, or whatever. But the phrase Clone Wars has been around since the OT - bringing that to live action, bringing back the PT cast...yeah that seems like some money on the table that the Mouse certainly has to be circling.

 

[a-dev]

TCW was always worth it. Ahsoka just enhanced TCW and like TCW made the PT more tolerable.

I been thinking about that. In that time I find the ST to be just as bad as the PT but feel the ST could be assisted with “filling in the blanks” like TCW and Rebels did with the PT.

I enjoy when there are hints of the PT. Some backstory and set up might help the ST feel more as Khev says “worth it”

There's nothing in the ST that I'd ever want to preserve because it's just all too depressing. I refuse to accept that the OT heroes wound up like that. Total failures to eachother and to the galaxy and then they all die one at a time. No thanks.

When a young Ben Solo turns up or is referenced in post-ROTJ TV or movies that just might be my checking out point. For he would be maybe the earliest possible definitive and undeniable link to the ST and the particular aspect of those movies that I despise more than anything. Han and Leia's one and only child who, together with Luke, they manage to **** up so badly that Luke hides away never to see Han again, and does precisely nothing while said child becomes complicit in the destruction of, what, 5 core planets of the New Republic - and then kills Han.

To this day I don't know how the writers and directors involved expected any kind of reaction from fans other than

I don't want the ST to be redeemed. I would love if somehow the PT could be. That's the big difference in how I regard those trilogies.

 

[Khev]

I don't want the ST to be redeemed. I would love if somehow the PT could be. That's the big difference in how I regard those trilogies.

What if they use the precedent of this latest episode of Ahsoka to say the ST is all a horrifying vision that Luke experiences as another "test."

"Rey. Rey Skywalker..."

Luke smiles at Rey from the netherworld then turns somber and sad and looks at the ground.

Anakin: "Is that what you fear will happen if you train your sister's offspring? It will only happen if you let it happen."

BOBF Luke awakens in a cold sweat.

 

[JAWS]

Like you said the story for the PT was always there it just needed to be executed better which we finally got with Ahsoka. Why oh why did George not give us a "Captain America: The First Avenger" style montage of Anakin and Obi-Wan just fighting a string of battles on different worlds to showcase their journey and growth and give a ton of cool and exotic moments I'll never know. But Filoni has largely corrected that mistake in one fell swoop.

The ST might be trickier to "salvage" for the people who didn't like it since unlike the PT their main problem with the story was what was shown instead of what was left out. A montage of "yo mama" jokes that are actually funny won't exactly do the trick in the same way that extra footage of the Clone Wars did.

Plus there's the fact that TFA and TROS seem to both be in direct conflict with TLJ with even ST fans being divided on those so not only would they have to find a way to elevate the ST they'd have to do it in a way that elevates and better intertwines Abrams' work with that of Johnson. No small task.

TLJ is the worst thing to happen in Disney owned SW. Even worse than BOBF.

WTF was RJ doing??? He just ruined everything and basically told a story that went nowhere.

KK and RJ killed DSW before it could ever really get going.

You still like it Khev??

I assume that the ST was supposed to fit somewhere up there unless it was the PT that both went nowhere and had a direction with better acting than itself and a worse story, lol.

Fixed it

 

[JAWS]

There's nothing in the ST that I'd ever want to preserve because it's just all too depressing. I refuse to accept that the OT heroes wound up like that. Total failures to eachother and to the galaxy and then they all die one at a time. No thanks.

When a young Ben Solo turns up or is referenced in post-ROTJ TV or movies that just might be my checking out point. For he would be maybe the earliest possible definitive and undeniable link to the ST and the particular aspect of those movies that I despise more than anything. Han and Leia's one and only child who, together with Luke, they manage to **** up so badly that Luke hides away never to see Han again, and does precisely nothing while said child becomes complicit in the destruction of, what, 5 core planets of the New Republic - and then kills Han.

To this day I don't know how the writers and directors involved expected any kind of reaction from fans other than

I don't want the ST to be redeemed. I would love if somehow the PT could be. That's the big difference in how I regard those trilogies.

I felt that way about the PT until all the PT side projects.

So I hope for the same with the ST. A better explanation how Luke, Han and Leia got to where they were in the PT

Personally I would love an animated series dont in TCW style to tell some Luke, Han and Leia stories that took place between ROTJ and TFA.

But if they can pull it off I’m fine with ignoring it also

 

[jaztermareal]

I have to agree with the earlier post that stated the difference between PT and ST being that the PT was good story told and acted poorly, and that it could be improved by expanding due to its primary weakness being what it DIDN'T show, while the ST was a nonsensical and inconsistent story acted well with some great visuals that cannot be fixed due to what it DID show.

One could be remade shot for shot, same story and events with better acting, VFX and dialogue and turn out pretty good, the other could not. PT was terrible for many reasons but there at least was a sturdy foundation, the ST has no foundation, no matter what you build on top it will still crack, collapse and come crashing down. You can't fix stupid and the ST was endlessly that on so many levels.


Replacing the ST, bringing back the cast with completely new story could absolutely work. Same props, costumes, vehicles etc could be reused and suddenly those ST troopers and Rey figures no one wants left clogging the shelves would suddenly be wanted.


I truly hope that Ahsoka actually serves to begin replacing the ST entirely. I mean, sure, it would require DIsney to essentially admit failure but on the other hand they could essentially double dip sequel trilogies and maintain the existing Disney trilogy in Legends status, no longer canon but still there fir folk to enjoy as a "what if" scenario.

 

[jye4ever]

What if they use the precedent of this latest episode of Ahsoka to say the ST is all a horrifying vision that Luke experiences as another "test."

"Rey. Rey Skywalker..."

Luke smiles at Rey from the netherworld then turns somber and sad and looks at the ground.

Anakin: "Is that what you fear will happen if you train your sister's offspring? It will only happen if you let it happen."

BOBF Luke awakens in a cold sweat.

That new Rey ST movie might be a problem lol

 

[The Buffinator]

I would be willing to bet that if this drums up enough positive buzz, Disney will greenlight SOME form of the Clone Wars in live action.

Nah, if they deliver on the remaining 3 episodes they'll finish up the Thrawn has returned arc with the Filoni movie that brings all the current players together (Ahsoka , Sabine, Hera, Ezra, Mando, Grogu, Bo Katan & Co., Fennec, etc.) to save the day. Luke will probably show up at some point because they won't be able to resist it. (I excluded Boba Fett because by this time he'll probably have been eaten by his pet rancor lol.) Then if that goes well I could see another series set in pre-ST time, maybe with Ezra and/or Sabine training Jacen while Ahsoka graduates to Yoda status (if she doesn't die heroically in the movie).

 

[jye4ever]

Nah, if they deliver on the remaining 3 episodes they'll finish up the Thrawn has returned arc with the Filoni movie that brings all the current players together (Ahsoka , Sabine, Hera, Ezra, Mando, Grogu, Bo Katan & Co., Fennec, etc.) to save the day. Luke will probably show up at some point because they won't be able to resist it. (I excluded Boba Fett because by this time he'll probably have been eaten by his pet rancor lol.) Then if that goes well I could see another series set in pre-ST time, maybe with Ezra and/or Sabine training Jacen while Ahsoka graduates to Yoda status (if she doesn't die heroically in the movie).

As long as it all leads to horses on star destroyers i’m good.

 

[The Buffinator]

M

As long as it all leads to horses on star destroyers i’m good.

In the TROS Special Edition release they will come galloping out of the maw of a Purrgil lol...

 

[jye4ever]

MRI of Bravomite’s brain when Filoni confirms Anakin was really there:

Now agp’s:

 

[a-dev]

MRI of Bravomite’s brain when Filoni confirms Anakin was really there:

View attachment 662885

Now agp’s:

View attachment 662884

We'll do you last

 

[Khev]

KK and RJ killed DSW before it could ever really get going.

You still like it Khev??

I do, though I get the criticisms leveled against it and even agree with a number of them.

Since the ST has come out TLJ is probably the one that I rewatched the most. Partly because it's practically an entire trilogy condensed into a single film and partly because it's beautifully shot, very impressively acted and has some truly awesome moments (IMO) like Snoke's Throne Room and Luke with Yoda.

Of course being a trilogy of its own *inside* another trilogy probably wasn't the best way to go, lol.

But I do agree that when all is said and done the ST does beg the question of "what was the point" especially in light of its shortcomings and the damage it caused.

So an entire new SW trilogy comes out and what did it really contribute to the overall Saga at the end of the day? The Legacy characters died sad and lonely (aw) Palpatine returned (been there, done that) and Dyads are a thing (so what.) With that in mind it certainly didn't justify its own existence the way that the OT and PT did. However I did really enjoy watching each entry in the theaters and I do find them fun to revisit for various reasons (though I haven't rewatched them nearly as much as the previous six films, that could just be where I'm at in life though as far as being a SW "fan" goes) so like I've said many times they're just a mixed bag with both good and bad elements.

 

[pixletwin]

For those interested in such things:

Part one of the Ahsoka sountrack (ep. 1-4) is available now on streaming.