Somehow Rey Returned

[ajp4mgs]

But Kennedy knows that they messed up with the Sequel Trilogy. She knows it pissed a lot of people off, more than anything that has come before. She could have just left it alone, made other stories around it without touching it. But no, she's gone for this. It takes a certain type of person with a certain type of mindset to do that.

Are you too young to remember the reaction to the PT? Everything you just stated applied to Lucas and the prequel era when he went from the type of fan outrage that led to a documentary being made about how he screwed up Star Wars right into animated series set in the same era.

Pissed off a lot of people? Check.

Could've left it alone? Check.

Made other stories around it without touching it? Check.

"It takes a certain type of person with a certain type of mindset to do that." Um... check?

 

[BoosterGold06]

I don’t want to see an Empire 3.0, if it has that it’s an automatic 0/10.

I’m sure there will be new baddies called the MAGA Force or GOP Squad.

It’s the best Disney Star Wars movie. It’s a fun ride. It’s not different from recasting someone like Obi-Wan with Ewan McGregor, it’s a young version of Han and Lando and the actors do a great job.

See I disagree. There’s a big difference between 28-year old Ewan playing a younger version of 63-year old Guinness than 29-year old Alden playing a younger version of 35-year old Ford. We already knew what young Han looked like.

 

[meanstreak]

ffs I was hoping the new trilogy would get away from all these characters.

 

[chrisstbh]

I’m sure there will be new baddies called the MAGA Force or GOP Squad.

See I disagree. There’s a big difference between 28-year old Ewan playing a younger version of 63-year old Guinness than 29-year old Alden playing a younger version of 35-year old Ford. We already knew what young Han looked like.

He’s not playing 29 year old Han though, he’s playing like 20 year old Han. Far enough gap that it was fine for me. Deserves a watch imo.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

 

[davejames]

I'm actually a lot more excited for this than I should be, since I still remain a big fan of the character and Daisy's ultra charming performance. And as bad as the last movie was, the ending with her yellow lightsaber still left me wanting to see more adventures with Rey.

Just hope they completely ignore all that nonsense with her being a Palpatine.

 

[xipotec]

I agree. Rey was set up really well and the story of her scavenger life was beautifully told in a short amount of time. Still love her theme which is the perfect balance of curiosity, hope, and melancholy.

But not having her character arc written in stone before moving forward with the trilogy tossed her characterization around like a ship in a storm.

I felt from early on that if she were to have a legacy connection, she should be a Kenobi. Turns out that was part of discussions but dropped in favor of Palpatine which is just dumb. A Skywalker sacrificing themselves for a Kenobi would’ve been a more satisfying arc that would actually have made sense.

No matter what happens, I am hoping the best for the characters and actors this time around. The actors don’t deserve the blame and vitriol they receive. They were so excited and passionate and it was heart wrenching to see their smiles wiped away by their experiences with TROS.

Totally agree. Rey is a good character, in a poorly written film.

 

[chrisstbh]

Totally agree. Rey is a good character, in a poorly written film.

Her character was ruined the moment they made her a Palpatine.

 

[Mike86]

Are you too young to remember the reaction to the PT? Everything you just stated applied to Lucas and the prequel era when he went from the type of fan outrage that led to a documentary being made about how he screwed up Star Wars right into animated series set in the same era.

Pissed off a lot of people? Check.

Could've left it alone? Check.

Made other stories around it without touching it? Check.

"It takes a certain type of person with a certain type of mindset to do that." Um... check?

The reason the prequels were easier to swallow in my opinion is that even though they aren’t the best films in many respects they at least work well with the Original Trilogy to tell a good story.

The sequels are different. They just feel more tacked on and unnecessary. They also don’t really feel like they flow with the other six films. Yeah you have the carryover characters but largely they aren’t that important to the story.

They really screwed up with how Luke was handled in my opinion. He could have been the character to really bridge the gap but instead he was a joke. Han was a big part of TFA but still kind of a side character more or less.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The reason the prequels were easier to swallow in my opinion is that even though they aren’t the best films in many respects they at least work well with the Original Trilogy to tell a good story.

The sequels are different. They just feel more tacked on and unnecessary. They also don’t really feel like they flow with the other six films. Yeah you have the carryover characters but largely they aren’t that important to the story.

They really screwed up with how Luke was handled in my opinion. He could have been the character to really bridge the gap but instead he was a joke. Han was a big part of TFA but still kind of a side character more or less.

I'm not gonna debate the merits of the ST versus the PT or the portrayal of the characters. Been there, done that; doesn't change anyone's mind. But I can assure you that the fan hate of the PT back then wasn't just about them being poorly made films, and the prevailing sentiment was certainly *not* that those movies worked well with the original trilogy.

I was in my early 20's when the PT started and had grown up a huge OT fan, so I recall the fan reaction to the PT very vividly. Lucas went from untouchable hero icon to the object of merciless ridicule. Fans were (and are, in my case) pissed about how many contradictions existed with the OT. How Kenobi was made into a bigger liar, how Vader was diminished, how Yoda was completely reframed and compromised, how Boba Fett was done wrong, how the Jedi were not what Kenobi described to Luke... I could go on and on.

The People vs. George Lucas got made by dejected OT fans. Red Letter Media became a juggernaut based on hours of YouTube videos ripping the PT, in part because of the way those movies conflicted with the OT and were such a drastic departure from it in so many ways. Late-night talk shows were trashing it. Actors from the PT contemplated suicide as a result of the reaction and treatment they received from fans.

The selective memory in SW discussions for the last few years is incredible. The PT has enjoyed new life because the kids who grew up enjoying it got to watch those characters and plot points get fleshed out more in cartoons. Now those fans are starting to raise kids of their own and introducing them to the PT on their terms. Fair enough, and good for them. But let's not pretend that the PT was largely regarded by longtime fans as a positive extension of the lore. Quite the opposite, in fact.

And Lucas didn't care what the older fans thought. Nor should he have. Nor would he today.

 

[Garlador]

The reason the prequels were easier to swallow in my opinion is that even though they aren’t the best films in many respects they at least work well with the Original Trilogy to tell a good story.

The sequels are different. They just feel more tacked on and unnecessary. They also don’t really feel like they flow with the other six films. Yeah you have the carryover characters but largely they aren’t that important to the story.

They really screwed up with how Luke was handled in my opinion. He could have been the character to really bridge the gap but instead he was a joke. Han was a big part of TFA but still kind of a side character more or less.

Studios can't leave well enough alone. What you said can apply to so many other troubled franchises, from Terminator to The Matrix to Aliens, etc.

And they feel tacked on and unnecessary because, well, they ARE tacked on and unnecessary. The story was told. The fight was finished. The ending was achieved. The big villain defeated. The heroes victorious.

So when a whole new team of writers and directors and producers came on board to continue the finished story, they were always faced with the dilemma of how to move the story forward.

Now, it CAN be done. Legacy stories are often handled well in the hands of capable writers and directors. One of my favorite movies is The Mask of Zorro, where the beloved original Don Diego de la Vega incarnation passes the mantle to the new hero, Alejandro Murrieta. It basically does everything The Last Jedi did but better. You still have your hero reach the "end" of his story, you still have him suffer a major loss and setback, you still have him separated from his family in exile, you still have a new kid with some raw talent who appears that he takes under his wing, you still have him give one last battle and die tragically at the end... but it's all handled so well that audiences loved it. It handled that transition with respect and care.

So imagine if they had treated Luke the same way. Luke's setbacks and failures and sacrifice could still have been done, but with better execution could have been celebrated instead of widely reviled.

 

[ironwez20]

I didn’t have a problem with Daisy and the character of Rey started off fine. They definitely made her overpowered fast though. Still a Rey story no strings attached to the Skywalker Saga could be interesting.

One thing that bothers me though is how she’s rebuilding the Jedi Order. That should have been Luke’s role to in the sequels and had Rey help him in doing so. Instead we got hobo Luke who failed in trying to re-establish the Jedi.

Also I could almost see Grogu being worked in somehow. There’s no way Disney kills him. He could be like other Jedi/Force sensitive characters and be hiding out. Rey sense him and they work together to reform the Jedi. Kind of would make sense and bring things more full circle.

Yea people kept crying sexist when people didn’t like rey but that’s not the problem. It was the writing . I wanted a girl jedi and girl protagonist. A breath of fresh air imo. But I don’t like overpowered characters. Male or female . I don’t like characters who never fail or lose.

 

[MGS_OldBoy57]

Yea people kept crying sexist when people didn’t like rey but that’s not the problem. It was the writing . I wanted a girl jedi and girl protagonist. A breath of fresh air imo. But I don’t like overpowered characters. Male or female . I don’t like characters who never fail or lose.

I can definitely see this and agree.

For me I liked the Rey character but disliked everything going on around her.. The characters around her (besides Finn), handling of the story structure and their treatment of classic characters kind of turned me off to the films.

 

[The Green Goblin]

Glad to get a sequel again in the Star Wars universe versus everything being set between trilogies we've already seen. Glad that we aren't waiting until the Sequel Trilogy cast is in their 60s-70s to revisit those characters. Glad that Hot Toys will have no choice but to make another Rey, and hopefully actually nail the likeness this time.

 

[davejames]

I'm not gonna debate the merits of the ST versus the PT or the portrayal of the characters. Been there, done that; doesn't change anyone's mind. But I can assure you that the fan hate of the PT back then wasn't just about them being poorly made films, and the prevailing sentiment was certainly *not* that those movies worked well with the original trilogy.

I was in my early 20's when the PT started and had grown up a huge OT fan, so I recall the fan reaction to the PT very vividly. Lucas went from untouchable hero icon to the object of merciless ridicule. Fans were (and are, in my case) pissed about how many contradictions existed with the OT. How Kenobi was made into a bigger liar, how Vader was diminished, how Yoda was completely reframed and compromised, how Boba Fett was done wrong, how the Jedi were not what Kenobi described to Luke... I could go on and on.

The People vs. George Lucas got made by dejected OT fans. Red Letter Media became a juggernaut based on hours of YouTube videos ripping the PT, in part because of the way those movies conflicted with the OT and were such a drastic departure from it in so many ways. Late-night talk shows were trashing it. Actors from the PT contemplated suicide as a result of the reaction and treatment they received from fans.

The selective memory in SW discussions for the last few years is incredible. The PT has enjoyed new life because the kids who grew up enjoying it got to watch those characters and plot points get fleshed out more in cartoons. Now those fans are starting to raise kids of their own and introducing them to the PT on their terms. Fair enough, and good for them. But let's not pretend that the PT was largely regarded by longtime fans as a positive extension of the lore. Quite the opposite, in fact.

And Lucas didn't care what the older fans thought. Nor should he have. Nor would he today.

Exactly. And honestly the PT still did far more to hurt my enjoyment of the OT because of how badly it fumbled Anakin's story and undermined Vader.

With it not being written by Lucas the ST is far easier to dismiss as just a series of fan films if you don't like its portrayal of the characters or their post-ROTJ lives.

 

[jye4ever]

I'm not gonna debate the merits of the ST versus the PT or the portrayal of the characters. Been there, done that; doesn't change anyone's mind. But I can assure you that the fan hate of the PT back then wasn't just about them being poorly made films, and the prevailing sentiment was certainly *not* that those movies worked well with the original trilogy.

I was in my early 20's when the PT started and had grown up a huge OT fan, so I recall the fan reaction to the PT very vividly. Lucas went from untouchable hero icon to the object of merciless ridicule. Fans were (and are, in my case) pissed about how many contradictions existed with the OT. How Kenobi was made into a bigger liar, how Vader was diminished, how Yoda was completely reframed and compromised, how Boba Fett was done wrong, how the Jedi were not what Kenobi described to Luke... I could go on and on.

The People vs. George Lucas got made by dejected OT fans. Red Letter Media became a juggernaut based on hours of YouTube videos ripping the PT, in part because of the way those movies conflicted with the OT and were such a drastic departure from it in so many ways. Late-night talk shows were trashing it. Actors from the PT contemplated suicide as a result of the reaction and treatment they received from fans.

The selective memory in SW discussions for the last few years is incredible. The PT has enjoyed new life because the kids who grew up enjoying it got to watch those characters and plot points get fleshed out more in cartoons. Now those fans are starting to raise kids of their own and introducing them to the PT on their terms. Fair enough, and good for them. But let's not pretend that the PT was largely regarded by longtime fans as a positive extension of the lore. Quite the opposite, in fact.

And Lucas didn't care what the older fans thought. Nor should he have. Nor would he today.

The cherry on top was when the Matrix came out of nowhere and spanked TPM hard in 1999 lol

 

[chrisstbh]

Yea people kept crying sexist when people didn’t like rey but that’s not the problem. It was the writing . I wanted a girl jedi and girl protagonist. A breath of fresh air imo. But I don’t like overpowered characters. Male or female . I don’t like characters who never fail or lose.

Yep, people are keen to throw you into a certain column when you don't like certain characters. I don't like Rey but Ahsoka is one of my top 3 Star Wars characters because she's actually well written and had a believable character arc.

 

[davejames]

I still don't understand the "overpowered" thing, or how people didn't see her clearly struggling and on the retreat during that entire first battle with (an injured) Kylo. Was she just not supposed to know how to hold a lightsaber at all or something? Lol

 

[chrisstbh]

I still don't understand the "overpowered" thing, or how people didn't see her clearly struggling and on the retreat during that entire first battle with (an injured) Kylo. Was she just not supposed to know how to hold a lightsaber at all or something? Lol

She never really struggled like other characters have though, she pretty much always came out on top. Anakin and Luke were both broken mentally and physically, they went through some **** and it took a toll on them and changed them.

Her characters entire existence is just wrong. Anakin was the "chosen one", he (with the help of Luke) brought balance to the force by destroying Palpatine. But nah, Disney had to undo all of that to make their new character into the best Jedi who ever lived.

 

[loki2371]

I still don't understand the "overpowered" thing, or how people didn't see her clearly struggling and on the retreat during that entire first battle with (an injured) Kylo. Was she just not supposed to know how to hold a lightsaber at all or something? Lol

Weeeell....

Luke was humiliated in his first encounter with Vader, and that was AFTER training with Yoda. Rey picked up a lightsaber and held her own and nearly beat the guy (injured or not) who single handedly killed all of the New Jedi Order that Luke had started, including forcing Luke to go into exile....

Not sure if to you, but to me that's a pretty big difference and disparity between Luke's and Rey's heroes journey...