HBO: The Last of Us

[Rayman]

(…)

First of all the lack of violcence has become quite distracting, it's obvious they are doing everything in their power to avoid and the constant cutaways from death scenes and injuries have become extremely annoying, violence is an integral part of TLOU and the games never shy away from it's ugliness unless it's for moments where the brutality is better left imagined than shown, the show isn't about that tho it's very clear they are staying faaaaar way from any sort of violence as possible I don't know if it's because there's this narrative that video games are too violent which is funny when Game of Thrones remains probably the most popular show of all time that had insane ammount of violence and gore in it and it was from HBO too, or something else entirely.

I agree with what's been said about the hunters I don't know why we must "humanize" every villain now, it has become a cliché at this point and an annoying one, some people are just pieces of **** and in the apocalypse where life is cheaper than a pair of boots having larger groups of murderers, rapists and thieves would only be natural because it's a world those kind of monsters can thrive in, we don't need a tragic backstory or a villain who thinks they're doing the right thing, especially when said villain is a woman with a squeaky voice who is about as a intimidating as a cute puppy.

(…)

I do understand your arguments, but I also believe there is an intention behind everything in this series - which is what I praise the most. Seems like a given but so much TV and movies seem to be made by some kind of ChatGPT-like AI nowadays, it’s refreshing seeing intention. Wether they deliver better or worse is a completely different thing though. Not everyone is Vince Gilligan (unfortunately imo).

When it comes to the violence, we did see Joel becoming extremely violent in episode 1 (for a tid bit, for sure), and in this last chapter we saw… nothing. But they’re also changing the focus from episode to episode. First 3 chapters, besides settling the world, all had different protagonists: 1st Joel, then Tess, then Bill. Episode 4 was more about Ellie, and I think that’s why they hid violence this time around. It’s what Joel wants for the kid. I believe it was 100% intentional. We shall see a little later if they hide violence when it’s “unhidable” (if you’ve played the game, you know what I mean). If they do that, that would be underwhelming for sure. For the time being, I’d give them the benefit of the doubt since the viewpoint was so much about Ellie in this episode.

About the humanizing thing…there’s no need to tell a backstory to humanize people, that’s something screenwriters sometimes forget or don’t dare to do. Pulp Fiction’s Wallace’s band-aid is studied for its repercussion, however fortunate that was, for creating such awesome backstories in the minds of people. That was humanizing too. It needn’t be shown or diegetic.

It’s totally true that they do seem to fall way too much into convention in this case. I couldn’t care less if she’s a woman or how badass she seems, but seems like time could be spent on something else, and that her motives could’ve been told other ways, without so much conventional dialogue. So yeah, agree on this point, it was maybe the dullest moment of the show this far, and felt specially out of place since it was such an intimate Ellie and Joel episode otherwise.

Anywho… chapter 5’s coming soon and I can’t wait.

EDIT: Pedro Pascal for president of the world. I have to disagree on that one. He’d do a better job at playing me than meself, you can quote me on that one

 

[ironwez20]

In the last episode, she used the puns and jokes to make her seem sweeter, but for me, other than the last one, I thought her delivery seemed very forced and didn't work for me. Outside of that, she's been mean and annoying. She just hasn't worked as Ellie for me. I struggle to understand why people think she's doing a great job as Ellie. People may like this version, but she's not even close to being the same Ellie as the game.

Strange. This is how she acts in the game. She cracks jokes and tries to seem braver than she truly is. She has a lot of spunk and acts like a child seeing the world for the first time? What do you want her to act like?

 

[ironwez20]

I agree with some here that the violence is kinda toned down. I find that odd. It’s hbo. They can go as crazy as they want. Also who let the middle school principal be in charge of a town of raiders lol. Come on you couldn’t have gotten someone with a softer voice. . Also stop humanizing everything. It’s ok to have characters be just bad. The raiders in this section of the game were pretty much crazy. Just stick with that.

 

[namoruku]

I agree with some here that the violence is kinda toned down. I find that odd. It’s hbo. They can go as crazy as they want. Also who let the middle school principal be in charge of a town of raiders lol. Come on you couldn’t have gotten someone with a softer voice. . Also stop humanizing everything. It’s ok to have characters be just bad. The raiders in this section of the game were pretty much crazy. Just stick with that.

They purposely chose this "school principal"-like character to lead the team of vigilantes for a reason (from podcast below). We just gotta wait and see:


Honestly I'm kind of interested in their strategy to show backstory/humanize Joel/Ellie's antagonists. It's pretty clear by now that the purpose of this adaptation is to show how different people are dealing with their lives post-outbreak, or expanding on the Last of Us universe. The showrunners know they could've obviously made a direct 1:1 recreation of the first game, but then everyone who've played the game would know exactly how episodes would play out. I was worried they'd include too much that Joel and Ellie's story would be diminished, but I feel like they're doing a pretty good job developing their relationship.

Anyway the whole purpose of "humanizing"/adding more scenes with this vigilante group in episode 4 is to develop Sam/Henry's backstory and add context to their storyline. I didn't particularly care for them at all in the game, but so far the show is adding content to make this storyline more engaging imo.
Regarding the toned down violence -- I agree it does seem jarring, since you play Joel as a literal killing machine -- but at the end of the day, they've conveyed the same message: that he's a ruthless tough guy who's able to kill people without much remorse. They COULD'VE shown Joel stab the dude in episode 4, but they decided to show Ellie's POV for a reason (want the viewer to wear her shoes/show how she's being affected by this violence mentally). Which I appreciate.

 

[Mandible]

I love Pedro, but man he's dialing it in here. There's no dimension to his character. Bella does the best she can with the script and direction, but again, it's all coming off as blah because of how it's being handled.

If comparing apples to apples (because some people here don't like this adaption being compared to the game), then (the first season, so far) of TWD decimate this - and I'm not even a fan of TWD. But as far as story telling, character development, world building - there was so much more happening in TWD by this stage.

Personally, this last ep made it very clear for me - it's not the adaptation I would have liked. It's clear where it's all headed and what type of show it wants to be... not for me.

I'll keep my cartoon (along with other great animations that made me more invested in their characters) any day of the week over this forgettable fodder.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I never watched TWD... nor played TLOU.... so this Zombie-lite stuff is OK for me.

But I agree, I do wish there was more going on by this point. With the information I have so far, feels like I should be looking back at two episodes, not four... and not with 1.5 hours in each episode.

 

[Mandible]

The showrunners know they could've obviously made a direct 1:1 recreation of the first game, but then everyone who've played the game would know exactly how episodes would play out. I was worried they'd include too much that Joel and Ellie's story would be diminished, but I feel like they're doing a pretty good job developing their relationship.

Anyway the whole purpose of "humanizing"/adding more scenes with this vigilante group in episode 4 is to develop Sam/Henry's backstory and add context to their storyline. I didn't particularly care for them at all in the game, but so far the show is adding content to make this storyline more engaging imo.
Regarding the toned down violence -- I agree it does seem jarring, since you play Joel as a literal killing machine -- but at the end of the day, they've conveyed the same message: that he's a ruthless tough guy who's able to kill people without much remorse. They COULD'VE shown Joel stab the dude in episode 4, but they decided to show Ellie's POV for a reason (want the viewer to wear her shoes/show how she's being affected by this violence mentally). Which I appreciate.

And that right there is the problem. They keep saying it's for a wider audience, and fair enough.

The game probably sold 20M (at best) copies. The potential audience for a TV show around the world could be a billion people. Hell, even if it's only 200M people it's 10x the amount that played the game - so even if it was a 1:1 live-action adaption, 90% of their audience still wouldn't know the story (and they'd only potentially "piss off" 10% of their audience that had played the game).

For me, I'd rather it have been a 1:1 copy so that people that have never experienced the game could have had a far better experience than what has been produced.

Having just completed the Remake, the overall experience of the game is 90% story and characters, and only 10% gameplay - so again, a 1:1, with all the subtext, subtly, and nuance, would have been a better adaption for the uninitiated.

 

[Jman101010]

Strange. This is how she acts in the game. She cracks jokes and tries to seem braver than she truly is. She has a lot of spunk and acts like a child seeing the world for the first time? What do you want her to act like?

In the game there was more of a balance. In this, they lean way more into the mean and annoying. She drops an f-bomb ever other sentence it seems (exaggerating a bit), while in the game she used it more sparingly. Certainly not this much at least. They added and changed different scenes to make her more angry as well.

In Episode 1, they added the scenes with her chained up, where she's very angry and understandably so. She also doesn't like Marlene in this, which will come up in a second. Later on, She tries to stab Joel when she first sees him, whereas in the game this doesn't happen and she wanted to stay with Marlene to help her after she was wounded, showing compassion. It's obvious in the show, they wanted her to be more angry in the beginning.

In episode 3, at the beginning, she tells Joel not to blame her for Tess's death and basically tries to pin it on him. In the game, she tries to give her condolences before Joel cuts her off. Later on we see her kill an infected pinned under rubble and doesn't seem to feel much doing it.

Those are just a few things that I can think of off the top of my head, but they obviously did these things to make her seem more angry and less compassionate. There hasn't been much to show that other side of her up until episode 4 other than a couple of scenes pulled from the game. She's always angry or annoying with pretty much no in-between. Like I said, I thought other than the last joke, I thought her delivery in those scenes was off and felt forced. She does feel bad for shooting that one guy though. I don't think her acting has been very good in general in this so far. Not to mention, she doesn't look anything like her, which wouldn't matter much if I thought she was good, but still a factor. If she can't nail the winter stuff later on, that's going to be a huge problem.

 

[Wor-Gar]

This "winter stuff" people keep mentioning better be pretty good.

 

[Jman101010]

This "winter stuff" people keep mentioning better be pretty good.

Agreed LOL!

 

[ArtDamage]

This "winter stuff" people keep mentioning better be pretty good.

It was great in the game anyway.

 

[R_R_X]

I do understand your arguments, but I also believe there is an intention behind everything in this series - which is what I praise the most. Seems like a given but so much TV and movies seem to be made by some kind of ChatGPT-like AI nowadays, it’s refreshing seeing intention. Wether they deliver better or worse is a completely different thing though. Not everyone is Vince Gilligan (unfortunately imo).

When it comes to the violence, we did see Joel becoming extremely violent in episode 1 (for a tid bit, for sure), and in this last chapter we saw… nothing. But they’re also changing the focus from episode to episode. First 3 chapters, besides settling the world, all had different protagonists: 1st Joel, then Tess, then Bill. Episode 4 was more about Ellie, and I think that’s why they hid violence this time around. It’s what Joel wants for the kid. I believe it was 100% intentional. We shall see a little later if they hide violence when it’s “unhidable” (if you’ve played the game, you know what I mean). If they do that, that would be underwhelming for sure. For the time being, I’d give them the benefit of the doubt since the viewpoint was so much about Ellie in this episode.

About the humanizing thing…there’s no need to tell a backstory to humanize people, that’s something screenwriters sometimes forget or don’t dare to do. Pulp Fiction’s Wallace’s band-aid is studied for its repercussion, however fortunate that was, for creating such awesome backstories in the minds of people. That was humanizing too. It needn’t be shown or diegetic.

It’s totally true that they do seem to fall way too much into convention in this case. I couldn’t care less if she’s a woman or how badass she seems, but seems like time could be spent on something else, and that her motives could’ve been told other ways, without so much conventional dialogue. So yeah, agree on this point, it was maybe the dullest moment of the show this far, and felt specially out of place since it was such an intimate Ellie and Joel episode otherwise.

Anywho… chapter 5’s coming soon and I can’t wait.

EDIT: Pedro Pascal for president of the world. I have to disagree on that one. He’d do a better job at playing me than meself, you can quote me on that one

I'm past the point of giving them the benifit of the doubt when it comes to the lack of violence I think they've done a deliberate choice of having almost zero to none in the show in order to deliver a more "respectable" drama that doesn't live in the shadow of "All video games are inherently violent and cause violence!" I don't think it was at all meant to portray Ellie's viewpoint or anybody else's having the focus on her was just a clever way of hiding it, even when they show the guy's corpse after the fact he looks clean as a whistle.

Yup, I've no idea why we are even wasting time on this lady or this version of the hunters, is it really to expand upon Henry's character? Or is it just more new content that will be remixed with the original and not manage to be as good? One of the biggest issues I'm having with the show, probably the biggest is that the writting treats the viewer like a moron, the dialogue is so expository most of the time and all the emotions, arcs, moments are told here, not felt.

Sometimes it feels like all we need is for the actors to look into the camera and say what is happening.

We agree to disagree, he's a good actor but so far he seems very... bored? I dunno most of his lines have no impact, and even the small ones sound like he's reading a script, like when Ellie asks why the pages are stuck together, his "uhhmm" couldn't sound more phoned in, I thought he did great in the first episode but as the series progresses I just don't see what's so spectacular about this casting anymore, I definitely think Bella did a better job than him in episode 4, they could've literally picked any other actor that people were suggesting and not much would've changed aside from Joel looking more like Joel lol.

 

[glitch1044]

I'm starting to see a few more posts commenting about the shows lack of violence. Was wondering how long it would take.
12 pages ago...lol

As for the violence this show is trying so hard to get away from - Yes, I do have an issue with that. The brutality and violence in their world shows what Joel and Ellie had to go through, the sacrifices they had to make to get to where Part I ends. It shows why it made them the people they are in Part II, and why their mindset is the way it is.

I'll say it already, the upcoming bloater scene will most likely be a 2 minute scene, and thats it.
Anyway, since this series is about "love" and how the fungus only wants love too, I think that even if we do get more violent episodes, it won't be nearly as rough as it was in the game. But whatever, this is a story, not a videogame. I get it.

As for episode 4, it surprisingly felt like I was watching something that resembled TLoU again. And maybe it's the child in me (or the immature adult), but Ellie's stupid diarrhea joke at the end actually made me crack up and start laughing along with Joel. He wasn't kidding, that joke was horribly bad, but in a good way. lol Reminded me of the game again.
As for our Negan wannabe, according to the HBO interview, Druckmann and others said they wrote her that way on purpose. They said they wanted people to ask why in the world people would follow her? Why her? And that we just need to keep watching. I honestly couldn't care less about her character, but hey, maybe they can spin up something halfway decent with her. lol
I really hope they stick to episodes being more similar to Ep 1 & 4. Unlike the last two episodes, this one was actually fun to watch again.

 

[Johnny Utah]

After seeing how they have adapted the game so far, I'm losing faith the winter episodes will be good.

 

[Wor-Gar]

It drops early on Fri HBOMax. Does this mean they'll drop the rest of the show for bingers?

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I think I would give more of a **** about this show if I had played the game

 

[ScoutingForToys]

I think I would give more of a **** about this show if I had played the game

Yeah same boat. Having not played the game, I have no attachment to the story or these characters. Watching it completely fresh, merits of the show alone and honestly, it's a solid show, pretty decent, but nothing special so far.

 

[choombaz]

It drops early on Fri HBOMax. Does this mean they'll drop the rest of the show for bingers?

I don’t think so, they are just doing it for this episode to avoid the Super Bowl.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

5 episodes to go then? Are they covering the entirety of the original game in that time?

Going to be so rushed if that’s the case, unless they have some feature length episodes.

 

[ArtDamage]

5 episodes to go then? Are they covering the entirety of the original game in that time?

Going to be so rushed if that’s the case, unless they have some feature length episodes.

Yeah this season is meant to cover the whole first game and it's DLC.