**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

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LOL at poor @Prime Clone every time I take a swipe at the PT.

:duff
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Khev

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Yeah, so heartbreaking that Obi walked away AGAIN, allowing MILLIONS more people to die, instead of finishing the job then and there.

Stupid, vapid, illogical.
George Lucas went to great lengths to show that Jedi were never meant to be executioners, no matter the stakes. Anakin knew he was wrong to kill Dooku the way he did and it was Mace Windu who screwed up everything, dooming millions to die, because he made the "logical" but morally wrong choice to execute a seemingly defenseless Palpatine.

So Obi-Wan sparing a wheezing Vader who was slumped and on his knees tracks with proper Jedi teachings.
 

ZE_501

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So Obi-Wan sparing a wheezing Vader who was slumped and on his knees tracks with proper Jedi teachings.
Weeelll...forgetting certain inconsistencies that require fan gymnastics or hand waving (such as the Jedi leading a war machine consisting of clones bred for it etc. etc.) ... Jedi ethics run into immediate trouble in the case of Vader. Leaving him alive or at least free to go = leaving a vicious predator on the loose in service to the evil Empire.

Even if he wasn't going to kill him the onus was on Obi Wan to at least take him prisoner. But instead he walks away again. The argument that Tarkin would have blasted Alderaan with or without Vader is irrelevant; he is nonetheless an important tool of the Emperor and is 100% going to do a whole lotta Bad Guy stuff.
 

Khev

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Weeelll...forgetting certain inconsistencies that require fan gymnastics or hand waving (such as the Jedi leading a war machine consisting of clones bred for it etc. etc.) ... Jedi ethics run into immediate trouble in the case of Vader. Leaving him alive or at least free to go = leaving a vicious predator on the loose in service to the evil Empire.

Even if he wasn't going to kill him the onus was on Obi Wan to at least take him prisoner. But instead he walks away again. The argument that Tarkin would have blasted Alderaan with or without Vader is irrelevant; he is nonetheless an important tool of the Emperor and is 100% going to do a whole lotta Bad Guy stuff.
Yes, taking him prisoner would have been fully within the rights of a Jedi. I was only contending with the assertion that he should have killed him on the spot. That said I'm not really sure where Obi-Wan would have even been able to take an imprisoned Vader at that point.
 

ZE_501

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Yes, taking him prisoner would have been fully within the rights of a Jedi. I was only contending with the assertion that he should have killed him on the spot. That said I'm not really sure where Obi-Wan would have even been able to take an imprisoned Vader at that point.
Well that's Obi Wan's problem. Lazy Jedi.
 

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Yes, taking him prisoner would have been fully within the rights of a Jedi. I was only contending with the assertion that he should have killed him on the spot. That said I'm not really sure where Obi-Wan would have even been able to take an imprisoned Vader at that point.
My one critique is that if you had Obi-Wan sensing Luke’s peril a scene earlier, it would 100% justify him rushing off to ensure his safety and leaving Vader again.
 

Wor-Gar

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I agree that the "superman" fights are not very interesting. Pulling stone towers over on one another really adds nothing since it seems to have little effect.

Another nit was the sudden abandonment of the Leia story -- 5 episodes -- to pull Luke into the finale. Obi just leaves Leia on a ship in the care of a swindler? Felt a little awkward, although I get that he believed he was sacrificing himself to save her.
 

Khev

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My one critique is that if you had Obi-Wan sensing Luke’s peril a scene earlier, it would 100% justify him rushing off to ensure his safety and leaving Vader again.
I was just going to say that myself. They could have perfectly mimicked Palpatine's "I sense Lord Vader is in danger" that he uttered after dueling with Yoda and had Obi-Wan have to depart immediately to try and help Luke. Oh well, yet another missed opportunity on account of the writers.
 

ajp4mgs

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George Lucas went to great lengths to show that Jedi were never meant to be executioners, no matter the stakes. Anakin knew he was wrong to kill Dooku the way he did and it was Mace Windu who screwed up everything, dooming millions to die, because he made the "logical" but morally wrong choice to execute a seemingly defenseless Palpatine.

So Obi-Wan sparing a wheezing Vader who was slumped and on his knees tracks with proper Jedi teachings.
Obi-Wan's mercy is not only appropriate for a true Jedi, but leaving Anakin/Vader alive supports the interpretation that Luke was viewed as the "last hope" for something other than killing Vader. Killing Vader does *nothing* to usurp the Emperor. Y'know... the most powerful bad guy in terms of both the Force and political influence. :lol If you think about it, having someone as powerful as Vader turning on Palpatine is really the only way to actually win.

People will keep pointing to the exchange when Luke tells Kenobi that he can't kill his own father and the response is, "Then the Emperor has already won." But that sort of thing is for structural storytelling purposes. If you let the audience know ahead of time that Luke isn't actually meant to have a to-the-death duel, you'd lower the tension/suspense for the movie's climax.

At no time did either Yoda or Kenobi tell Luke that he had to *kill* Vader. It was essentially variations of "you must *face* Vader." Having a long game of 20 years for Luke Skywalker just to be trained to be a more effective killer doesn't jibe with his actual training, and would make no sense. The Dagobah cave failure would make no sense. Yoda's lessons about "never attack" would make no sense.

A Jedi should kill when there's no other choice. Luke was trained to be able to defend himself, and yes, kill if he has to. But the idea that killing Darth Vader was the ultimate goal and that 20 years of Imperial terror would go by before Luke starts being turned into a better killing machine than Obi-Wan was 20 years prior (when he *defeated* Vader) is, well... kinda dumb. :lol
 

Khev

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Obi-Wan's mercy is not only appropriate for a true Jedi, but leaving Anakin/Vader alive supports the interpretation that Luke was viewed as the "last hope" for something other than killing Vader. Killing Vader does *nothing* to usurp the Emperor. Y'know... the most powerful bad guy in terms of both the Force and political influence. :lol If you think about it, having someone as powerful as Vader turning on Palpatine is really the only way to actually win.

People will keep pointing to the exchange when Luke tells Kenobi that he can't kill his own father and the response is, "Then the Emperor has already won." But that sort of thing is for structural storytelling purposes. If you let the audience know ahead of time that Luke isn't actually meant to have a to-the-death duel, you'd lower the tension/suspense for the movie's climax.

At no time did either Yoda or Kenobi tell Luke that he had to *kill* Vader. It was essentially variations of "you must *face* Vader." Having a long game of 20 years for Luke Skywalker just to be trained to be a more effective killer doesn't jibe with his actual training, and would make no sense. The Dagobah cave failure would make no sense. Yoda's lessons about "never attack" would make no sense.

A Jedi should kill when there's no other choice. Luke was trained to be able to defend himself, and yes, kill if he has to. But the idea that killing Darth Vader was the ultimate goal and that 20 years of Imperial terror would go by before Luke starts being turned into a better killing machine than Obi-Wan was 20 years prior (when he *defeated* Vader) is, well... kinda dumb. :lol
:exactly: :clap
 

Khev

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Khev telling a-dev about Rey being the "other:"

2I0Y.gif
All you have to do is separate "That boy is our last hope/no, there is another" from "There is another...Skywalker..." as referring to two different people which actually works quite well with what is shown on screen.

"That boy is our last hope..."

"No, there is another" (hope-meaning Rey.)

"Luke there is another Skywalker..."

"Yoda spoke of another" (Skywalker, not hope)

Obi-Wan: "Ah, yes your twin sister whom I watched be born and helped when she was 10..."

It works! :lecture
 

guyver1

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I agree that the "superman" fights are not very interesting. Pulling stone towers over on one another really adds nothing since it seems to have little effect.

Another nit was the sudden abandonment of the Leia story -- 5 episodes -- to pull Luke into the finale. Obi just leaves Leia on a ship in the care of a swindler? Felt a little awkward, although I get that he believed he was sacrificing himself to save her.
Don’t forget Leia didn’t recognize Luke in ANH , even when he said his name…they can’t interact before that because even Disney knows that would ruin SW continuity in the OT. Although it was a crazy idea how to split them up in the episode it had to be done to preserve the story in ANH.

I’m glad they separated Leia from Luke in the finale. Just like it was key that Vader didn’t see a child Luke either , because Vader didn’t even know he was chasing his own son in the DS scene of ANH
 
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Garlador

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I think I am prepared to say this is my favorite live-action portrayal of Darth Vader to date. And I was one of the ones who wasn’t eager initially for him to turn up.
 
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