Batgirl The Movie

[a-dev]

Mystique
Jean Grey

They're not in the MCU yet. Gonna be fascinating to see how they cast the X-Me- sorry, X-Persons.

 

[Wor-Gar]

They're not in the MCU yet.

Technicality.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Really odd takes considering most comic book characters started out as white, because other races weren't considered worthy.

But again, these same people are the ones who don't want kids to be taught that Ku Klux Klan was bad, so I can understand the position, as morally bankrupt as it may be.

 

[The Green Goblin]

Yeah, this is exactly the reaction I expected here when I saw the news.

I can already see the reactions in the thread when Hot Toys drops the teaser.

 

[Asta]

Funny also in the Batwoman TV series, when Ruby Rose left the new black Batwoman ditched the red wig, of course.

They couldn't even make a compromise and let her keep the red hair? lol

It can only be a matter of time before sportsmen start taking the knee for gingers as an oppressed minority.

 

[matticus]

Remember this is a movie for HBO MAX. They are also doing the Gotham P.D. show, so I wonder if Jeffrey Wright will be in both of these? Can you have technically 3 live action universes (CW, DCEU, The Batman) going on all at once?

 

[Wor-Gar]

It can only be a matter of time before sportsmen start taking the knee for gingers as an oppressed minority.

Where is the "Kick a Ginger" Day again? Britain?

 

[Knightstalker]

Remember this is a movie for HBO MAX. They are also doing the Gotham P.D. show, so I wonder if Jeffrey Wright will be in both of these? Can you have technically 3 live action universes (CW, DCEU, The Batman) going on all at once?

With the **** show that is DC at the moment, I don't even think they could answer that question. As a DC fan, it's ******* depressing.

 

[Asta]

Where is the "Kick a Ginger" Day again? Britain?

When I was at school gingers weren't lucky enough to only get kicked once a year. Kids tormented them every single day!

 

[matticus]

With the **** show that is DC at the moment, I don't even think they could answer that question. As a DC fan, it's ******* depressing.

The DC sections are like a ghost town. It's sad.

 

[TheDucky]

Really odd takes considering most comic book characters started out as white, because other races weren't considered worthy.

But again, these same people are the ones who don't want kids to be taught that Ku Klux Klan was bad, so I can understand the position, as morally bankrupt as it may be.

And where are all the new non-white characters now? Oh that’s right, there aren’t any still. Geez. Whatcha gonna blame that one on?

I mean, far leftists are the ones who want kids to be taught that all white men are bad at a far far far higher rate that anyone saying the KKK wasn’t bad... which seems like more MSM fake news clickbait and the over exaggertion of white supremacy existing.

Yeah, this is exactly the reaction I expected here when I saw the news.

I can already see the reactions in the thread when Hot Toys drops the teaser.

GINGER LIVES MATTER

 

[chrisstbh]

Really odd takes considering most comic book characters started out as white, because other races weren't considered worthy.

But again, these same people are the ones who don't want kids to be taught that Ku Klux Klan was bad, so I can understand the position, as morally bankrupt as it may be.

They could just make new characters. I have no issue with POC characters at all, what I take issue with is changing existing and established characters to tick a diversity box.

Marvel have a ton of non-white characters under their belt now.

 

[JMT1979]

Really odd takes considering most comic book characters started out as white, because other races weren't considered worthy.

But again, these same people are the ones who don't want kids to be taught that Ku Klux Klan was bad, so I can understand the position, as morally bankrupt as it may be.

That's a very blunt view. America was 90% white when most of the really popular superheroes(including Batgirl) were created.

 

[Asta]

They could just make new characters. I have no issue with POC characters at all, what I take issue with is changing existing and established characters to tick a diversity box.

Marvel have a ton of non-white characters under their belt now.

This is the crux of the matter.

I have long thought that simply changing the race of an established character merely piggy backs on the success of the white character.

In colonial studies this is very close to the idea of white patronage - that success is only gifted, and not earned through merit. That the non-white person is incapable of succeeding without external assistance.

I know it isn't easy to immediately establish mass popularity for a new character, but as you wrote there are numerous established non-white characters in popular culture that could be developed as well.

 

[chrisstbh]

This is the crux of the matter.

I have long thought that simply changing the race of an established character merely piggy backs on the success of the white character.

In colonial studies this is very close to the idea of white patronage - that success is only gifted, and not earned through merit. That the non-white person is incapable of succeeding without external assistance.

I know it isn't easy to immediately establish mass popularity for a new character, but as you wrote there are numerous established non-white characters in popular culture that could be developed as well.

Yep, here’s a list of the POC Marvel characters that I can think of, most of which have already been popularised (or soon will be) via either the MCU, Fox X-Men, animation, video games, etc.

I’m sure there are PLENTY more that I don’t even know about, that could easily be brought into the spotlight via the MCU, no race bending required.

Falcon
Luke Cage
Jimmy Woo
Storm
Miles Morales
Blade
Ms Marvel
Misty Knight
Jubilee
Black Panther
Shuri
War Machine
Wong
Shang Chi
Bishop
The entire Dora Milaje

 

[Asta]

Yep, here’s a list of the POC Marvel characters that I can think of, most of which have already been popularised (or soon will be) via either the MCU, Fox X-Men, animation, video games, etc.

I’m sure there are PLENTY more that I don’t even know about, that could easily be brought into the spotlight via the MCU, no race bending required.

Falcon
Luke Cage
Jimmy Woo
Storm
Miles Morales
Blade
Ms Marvel
Misty Knight
Jubilee
Black Panther
Shuri
War Machine
Wong
Shang Chi
Bishop
The entire Dora Milaje

Something just came to mind after writing my previous post.

Marvel's Falcon, who first appeared in 1969, is credited with being the first African-American superhero in mainstream comic books. Though Black Panther first appeared in 1966. Therefore, Falcon was a black hero in his own right.

Yet now he's taken on the mantle of a more prominent white superhero, Captain America. You could read that development as indicating that he could never be popular enough as a legitimate black superhero, but needed to harness the success of a more well known and longer established white character.

Seems like it would've been better to develop him as Falcon instead, paying tribute to his own history.

 

[SWFAN1000]

The ethnic cleansing of redheads continues.

Ginger Lives Matter!


View attachment 532092

Pandering is the latest rage!

 

[punisher1974]

Has a white male ever taken place of another gender or race of an established character?

Just in the Spawn movie from 1997. Al's best friend who married his wife after he was killed was played by a white guy. Don't remember the actors name as I didn't care for the movie.

 

[ZE_501]

Has a white male ever taken place of another gender or race of an established character?

Well that doesn't happen because part of the current push for diversity is based on a response to power structures, i.e. it's not a simple question of tit-for-tat race-switching, but meant to redress an imbalance.

This concept of imbalance isn't simply because "the majority of the USA was white for x number of years" or whatever -- as I understand it (could be wrong) the issue is not merely with the majority culture (whatever that may be) for the sake of it, but more specifically a legacy of inequity due to colonial history, exploitation, in some cases slavery, etc. which is very widely believed to be still be felt due to what I would describe as systemic inertia, rather than a cabal of cigar smoking old white men in towers, which the hysterical Twitter Mob would have you believe. Now you may accept this idea of systemic inequity or not, I'm not trying to convince anyone as this is a toy forum.

How such a legacy may have come to be is a fascinating read starting with Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies which may not be the final word on the topic but remains an excellent, cross-discplinary starting point filled with science and history.

(Many of you on this board have either inferred or come out and said that I'm a 'liberal' in a more or less gently pejorative sense that I hear many Americans use. Given my wide circle of acquaintances runs the gamut from radical leftists to Randian libertarians and republicans, I can assure you that's far too broad and simple of a brush to describe my socio-political leanings which are policy-driven rather than party-driven.)

I think that thanks to the Internet, the lowest common denominators in society are creating an artificial binary that serves to divide and distract us all, and this is what's driving the over-correction by insincere, money-hungry corporations with no vested interests beyond their coffers, and I've noticed (ha ha) that fandom tends to be reactive about this.

That being said, it makes perfect sense to me that there are entire segments of society that want to see themselves represented in mainstream media, which has ignored or sidelined them for many, many years and I think it's important, because the world is not what mainstream, big budget entertainment has shown us for a very long time.

I actually don't care if Mary Jane isn't a redhead. I love redheads and I've had the pleasure of having my life ruined by more than one. But it's not that important to me, your mileage may vary but I see a lot of these old stories as Shakespearean and open to interpretation, as I've said elsewhere.

But I also agree that taking an established and historically white intellectual property and slapping a person of colour on it or pandering to the LGBTQ+ demographic without regard to a meaningful narrative, is lazy and opportunistic.

It's not the end of the world, but it's also a missed opportunity to create something new and vibrant, which is an opportunity in general that corporations miss 50 times a day due to being conservative, predictable and boring.

Anyway, that's why they don't slap white males on stuff.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Baxter Stockman was black in the comics, but he was white in the OG cartoon. I prefer the white version because of the crazy hair tho