Amazon LOTR

[Sassafras]

“With Numenor destroyed, the greatest line of men was gone, and Sauron began to work to conquer Middle Earth. Disguised as Annatar, he forged the Rings of Power, controlled by the One Ring. The Elves could not be corrupted by them, but the nine kings of men who accepted them became the Nazgul.”

This part has the most problems because Sauron was disguised as Annatar in around the year 1300 over a thousand years before Numenor was destroyed in 3319. Sauron had conquered most of Middle-earth by 1699. The Numenoreans joined with Gil-galad’s and Elrond’s armies to drive out Sauron in 1700.

Sauron was later taken as prisoner to Numenor in 3262 by Ar-Pharazon because Sauron had claimed himself to be King of Men and this angered Ar-Pharazon who brought his entire fleet to Middle-earth. Sauron over the next century corrupted Ar-Pharazon and most of the Numenoreans leading to their destruction by divine intervention in 3319. Finally, in 3430 the Last Alliance is formed to destroy Sauron once and for all in Mordor by High-king Gil-galad and the Exile King Elendil (who founded Arnor and Gondor with the remnant Numenoreans).

Also, just a reminder that the Rings of Power were all forged in Eregion by Elves under Celebrimbor except the One Ring made by Sauron in Mount Doom. The Elves didn’t plan to distribute the rings except King Durin and his descendants claim Celebrimbor gave a ring to them. The rings were only distributed after Sauron sacked Eregion, stole them and saw the Elves were no longer useful to him. Indeed they had already been manipulated to making the rings and had played their part. He demanded the rings be given to him, when they refused he declared war which begin the War of the Elves and Sauron.

The only “good rings” were the Three that Celebrimbor made after Annatar left and wasn’t supervising the project. These rings were pure and had the best intentions to heal and preserve. These rings Sauron never claimed and were given to Galadriel and Gil-galad by Celebrimbor before Sauron sacked Eregion. Galadriel would always keep her ring Nenya, Elrond inherited his ring Vilya when Gil-galad died and Narya was held by Cirdan until he gave his ring to Gandalf in the Third Age.

Well, in theory the dwarf rings could be considered good; or at least, for whatever reason they were able to blow Sauron off for the most part - immune to his One Ring. Tho some accounts indicate the dwarves were able to acquire great wealth by their power, but also gold sickness. That seems pretty murky.

And I really, really hope Amazon doesn't go the "progressive" route with Annatar and Ar-Pharazon; can see the fan fics and *smut* already. Keep it subtle, Amazon!

 

[DakRen]

Well, in theory the dwarf rings could be considered good; or at least, for whatever reason they were able to blow Sauron off for the most part - immune to his One Ring. Tho some accounts indicate the dwarves were able to acquire great wealth by their power, but also gold sickness. That seems pretty murky.

And I really, really hope Amazon doesn't go the "progressive" route with Annatar and Ar-Pharazon; can see the fan fics and *smut* already. Keep it subtle, Amazon!

Yes! Good point about the rings of power. Were the rings inherently bad or good? Did the 16 rings Sauron claimed after the Fall of Eregion become tainted before he gave them out? One of the theories proposed frequently I have seen propose that the 9 rings given to Men have a different effect because of their nature. If the 16 lesser rings have similar properties to the Three that means they all preserve and stave off decay. For Elves this minimizes fading but for Men it is unnatural since their feä is meant to leave the halls of Arda. The Men become Nazgul because of this unnatural process, whereas Elves wearing the same rings would just stave off fading. Initially for Men and Hobbits this begins as prolonged life like Bilbo but over time the body can’t keep up and becomes like Gollum and eventually the feä is trapped in the unseen world (invisible). The butter spread too thin across bread metaphor Bilbo uses describes this strain between the body and spirit.

 

[Sassafras]

Yes! Good point about the rings of power. Were the rings inherently bad or good? Did the 16 rings Sauron claimed after the Fall of Eregion become tainted before he gave them out? One of the theories proposed frequently I have seen propose that the 9 rings given to Men have a different effect because of their nature. If the 16 lesser rings have similar properties to the Three that means they all preserve and stave off decay. For Elves this minimizes fading but for Men it is unnatural since their feä is meant to leave the halls of Arda. The Men become Nazgul because of this unnatural process, whereas Elves wearing the same rings would just stave off fading. Initially for Men and Hobbits this begins as prolonged life like Bilbo but over time the body can’t keep up and becomes like Gollum and eventually the feä is trapped in the unseen world (invisible). The butter spread too thin across bread metaphor Bilbo uses describes this strain between the body and spirit.

Great post and analysis. IMO in theory, the real taint would be that (depending) the rings were designed to be subject to another ring; although with the dwarves, interestingly, they seem to be immune; although apparently Sauron wanted those rings back, or destroyed.

I will always wish that Tolkien had spend more time with dwarves; maybe he planned to at some point.

Maybe posted already but release date Sept 2, 2022 on Hobbit Day (Lord of the Rings TV series on Amazon: release date, cast, trailer and news). Plenty of time for ASMUS to release Thranduil on Throne

 

[DakRen]

Great post and analysis. IMO in theory, the real taint would be that (depending) the rings were designed to be subject to another ring; although with the dwarves, interestingly, they seem to be immune; although apparently Sauron wanted those rings back, or destroyed.

I will always wish that Tolkien had spend more time with dwarves; maybe he planned to at some point.

Maybe posted already but release date Sept 2, 2022 on Hobbit Day (Lord of the Rings TV series on Amazon: release date, cast, trailer and news). Plenty of time for ASMUS to release Thranduil on Throne

I found a great quote from Tolkien about this too!

“To attempt by device or 'magic' to recover longevity is thus a supreme folly and wickedness of 'mortals'. Longevity or counterfeit 'immortality' (true immortality is beyond Ea) is the chief bait of Sauron – it leads the small to a Gollum, and the great to a Ringwraith.”

The rings were made by Elves for Elves and likely all had some function in staving off fading. The Three were the strongest and most effective at this having the power to stave fading of entire regions under the ring bearer’s control. This is why Rivendell and Lothlorien were places of rest and healing and why the Fellowship experienced time differently inside Caras Galadhon.

For mortals as Tolkien says the effects are far more drastic to their being because it was unnatural. At least the Elves were trying to keep what was theirs naturally and minimize the effects of Morgoth’s corruption on the world. For men and hobbits this is not the case, they received as Tolkien said “counterfeit immortality”.

I do hope we get Thranduil on Throne before the show starts. But at the latest sometime in 2022. The release date on Hobbit day is a great nod to fans.

 

[lordnastrond]

Well, in theory the dwarf rings could be considered good; or at least, for whatever reason they were able to blow Sauron off for the most part - immune to his One Ring. Tho some accounts indicate the dwarves were able to acquire great wealth by their power, but also gold sickness. That seems pretty murky.

And I really, really hope Amazon doesn't go the "progressive" route with Annatar and Ar-Pharazon; can see the fan fics and *smut* already. Keep it subtle, Amazon!

Dude, there is a reason Sauron turns into a hot twink when he wants people to do stuff for him.

Seriously though Sauron isn't above using a pretty face to get what he wants, in fact its an old tactic of his.

 

[Sassafras]

Dude, there is a reason Sauron turns into a hot twink when he wants people to do stuff for him.

Seriously though Sauron isn't above using a pretty face to get what he wants, in fact its an old tactic of his.

Weeelll, I am not sure, but always thought Sauron = Lucifer, the fall of the lightbringer; e.g. Sauron in his way was pretty cool before he strayed to the Dark Side. PS. I am not trying to trivialize the depth of Tolkien's work, in any way, by statements like that. The breadth and thought of Tolkien, and knowledge in worldbuilding, is staggering, the more I read.

 

[Sassafras]

I found a great quote from Tolkien about this too!

“To attempt by device or 'magic' to recover longevity is thus a supreme folly and wickedness of 'mortals'. Longevity or counterfeit 'immortality' (true immortality is beyond Ea) is the chief bait of Sauron – it leads the small to a Gollum, and the great to a Ringwraith.”

The rings were made by Elves for Elves and likely all had some function in staving off fading. The Three were the strongest and most effective at this having the power to stave fading of entire regions under the ring bearer’s control. This is why Rivendell and Lothlorien were places of rest and healing and why the Fellowship experienced time differently inside Caras Galadhon.

For mortals as Tolkien says the effects are far more drastic to their being because it was unnatural. At least the Elves were trying to keep what was theirs naturally and minimize the effects of Morgoth’s corruption on the world. For men and hobbits this is not the case, they received as Tolkien said “counterfeit immortality”.

I do hope we get Thranduil on Throne before the show starts. But at the latest sometime in 2022. The release date on Hobbit day is a great nod to fans.

I imagine Tolkien, being an academic, was well-versed in mythology - I know hubris was a running theme in Greek mythology (the fall of Icarus, Phaethon, Arachne who was cursed for her boastfulness, etch). Also I have read that Tolkien was heavily influenced by his experiences of the World Wars e.g. world domination by a given person or group.

At least we can guess that Amazon's tease of the maps, and setting the release date - Amazon is well aware of the community of Middle Earth fans. If nothing else, if Amazon succeeds they stand to make millions.

 

[lordnastrond]

Weeelll, I am not sure, but always thought Sauron = Lucifer, the fall of the lightbringer; e.g. Sauron in his way was pretty cool before he strayed to the Dark Side. PS. I am not trying to trivialize the depth of Tolkien's work, in any way, by statements like that. The breadth and thought of Tolkien, and knowledge in worldbuilding, is staggering, the more I read.

Oh yes there is definitely an element of this at play with Sauron as well.
In many ways Morgoth is more like the Dragon of Revelation - the destroyer and antithesis of all that's good, a despoiler and annihilator but not exactly subtle or beguiling.
Sauron is closer to the Serpent or the demon Azazel, he gives out knowledge and promises godhood or immortality or a higher understanding of the universe but these are false promises to lure and trap. He also has a bit more in common with the more modern conception of the Devil as "Lucifer" a once beautiful and noble angel of good that fell to evil, whereas Melkor was evil from the start (or as close to it as makes no difference).
Sauron is known as The Deceiver for good reason, subtlety and guile are his stock and trade - seduction is simply a part of his toolset... but when those don't work torture and murder will do in a pinch.

 

[DakRen]

Oh yes there is definitely an element of this at play with Sauron as well.
In many ways Morgoth is more like the Dragon of Revelation - the destroyer and antithesis of all that's good, a despoiler and annihilator but not exactly subtle or beguiling.
Sauron is closer to the Serpent or the demon Azazel, he gives out knowledge and promises godhood or immortality or a higher understanding of the universe but these are false promises to lure and trap. He also has a bit more in common with the more modern conception of the Devil as "Lucifer" a once beautiful and noble angel of good that fell to evil, whereas Melkor was evil from the start (or as close to it as makes no difference).
Sauron is known as The Deceiver for good reason, subtlety and guile are his stock and trade - seduction is simply a part of his toolset... but when those don't work torture and murder will do in a pinch.

Good summary but Morgoth is the source of evil in Tolkien from his discord in the Ainulindalië. As Sauron imbued the One ring with his malice and will to dominate, Morgoth imbued his creative power into the whole of the earth/Arda so the entire world is his “ring”. He invented ice for instance and almost anything in nature that is oppressive to life. His earliest works were undermining and undoing all the efforts of the Aratar/Valar. Spilling the oceans, tearing down mountains and destroying what he could.

 

[Sassafras]

Sauron is known as The Deceiver for good reason, subtlety and guile are his stock and trade - seduction is simply a part of his toolset... but when those don't work torture and murder will do in a pinch.

I hope the scriptwriters keep that subltety and guile; IMO characters that are shades of gray, or less than perfect, are always interesting to me; unless it is a character like Smaug, for instance - where a Chinese friend explained that to the Chinese, a dragon is neither good nor bad, but more like a storm - and simply "above".

Amazon is apparently moving Season 2 shooting to the UK. Sadly I have not been to the UK yet, but am certain there are many magnificent locations suitable to Middle Earth, as well as in the U.S. - Canada as well.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/13/22622926/amazon-lord-of-the-rings-series-production-uk-new-zealand