The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

ZE_501 · Mar 30, 2023

rebelpig said:
I think it's interesting that we are seeing just exactly how and why the New Republic failed. It was never going to be all 'wine and roses' after RTJ. The republic believing it could never happen again.

I swore off writing pointless anti-ST screeds so I'm not touching that part of the discussion, but at least the New Republic as illustrated here, is primed for complete and utter failure. That's not what I'd call redemptive or well-written, but the concept at least is sound.

davejames · Mar 30, 2023

The ST is still pretty far off from this time period, so I'm not convinced that the storyline they're cooking up is related in any way to that. Could be they just like the idea of seeing a flawed New Republic and being able to comment on that. And honestly I wouldn't have expected it to be all sunshine and roses after the fall of the Empire anyway, given how vast and complex the SW universe is.

Of course whether all that is worth exploring on this show is another question...

guyver1 · Mar 30, 2023

chrisstbh said:
All he does is record voice lines, they don’t even have to go out to the studio for that these days.

He talks about as much as he always has anyway? It’s just the writing, simple as that.

Sassafras · Mar 30, 2023

rebelpig said:
Fan service or not, this show has made me feel for Star Wars in a way I haven't for years.

Well, I'm still having a ball. I just miss 1) Cara; 2) Din D'ajrin; and 3) EPIC episodes like last season's Mayfield episode. Stellar writing, performances, action.

And for me there have been great moments like Din and Bo interacting. But a lot of the writing seems to have slingshot from superficial to brooding psychological betrayal/horror and back to Pirates of the Caribbean. It's like watching an adjunct to Rebels, and even that show got into some hefty themes (along with the awesome voice of Jason Isaacs as the Inquisitor).

And I still love Grogu. Also, this isn't Favreau's first rodeo. I hafta wonder if he read my whining, or anyone else's, he knows, he knows, and has something planned. Hopefully something awesome and not that lame IM2 end fight fizzle.

Sassafras · Mar 30, 2023

davejames said:
The ST is still pretty far off from this time period, so I'm not convinced that the storyline they're cooking up is related in any way to that. Could be they just like the idea of seeing a flawed New Republic and being able to comment on that. And honestly I wouldn't have expected it to be all sunshine and roses after the fall of the Empire anyway, given how vast and complex the SW universe is.

Of course whether all that is worth exploring on this show is another question...

I hafta wonder what F&F are thinking. At best I'd get within 5 years of the ST and then bail in whatever way is best. Din D'jarin hooked up with the pretty widow and has many babies and weighs 300 lbs, and routinely wins contests for his spotchka. KK ran over George Lucas again and Grogu was returned to his home planet populated with cookie bake shops.

Ramatuelle said:
Sweetie, Leia flying through space without a pressure suit cannot be redeemed.

Oh gawd, someone had to mention that, now Poppins Leia is flying through my head again. :lol

. I'll never forget the director talking about how all that showed her "powah" and meanwhile the audience is laughing themselves sick. :hammerhead:

Sassafras · Mar 30, 2023

Garlador said:
I mean, it gave us this:

Holy *&^% lol :rotfl

xipotec · Mar 30, 2023

After the last fuffy episode and the lackluster other episodes, we finally got an episode that moved the plot along, and had quite a bit of progression for the plot rhey are going for….

and Zeb!!!! That was cool. Been waiting for the Rebels tie in for a while, and really hope that also means the return of THRAWN!

I was not as critical of the ST, and felt the lack of explanation of how things got to where they were was a bit to vague. So I am glad to see the series clearly going in a direction to explain how the new republic fails the galaxy. I know many people wanted Super Luke and the Perfect new Galaxy in the ST, but I am much happier to see the nuance in the good and bad characters and how things fell apart after the power vacuum from the defeat of the empire.

It much more interesting to me than the black and white good guy bad guy tropes of the OT. Dont get me wrong, for kids that works, but as a grown adult , I want to see more development of the history and lore behind the galaxy as well as the individual characters .

It why I thought Andor was such a great show. Essentially , Andor and The Mandalorian are telling similar back stories to fill in the blanks in between the films. Although I think the Mandalorian is trying tk straddle the middle line a bit too much, and it was very evident the previous episode.

I do feel like we are seeing the studio flex a bit this season, trying to appeal to a greater audience, and make the show more kid friendly. Thats going to be a huge mistake. As it will turn off alot of the heavy older fanbase.

In the end, I think Mando will be a travelers tale, about the Mando moving through the timeframe bearing witness to huge events and having some part in the way things ended up. I really do not think this is supose to be HIS story as much as him being in the bigger overall story of what came to be after the Empire was defeated and how the First order came to be.

davejames · Mar 30, 2023

I just hope that BOBF episode isn't the last we see of Mando actually being a bounty hunter. Because that to me was always far more interesting than the Grogu storyline. And it's certainly more interesting than whatever random thing is happening this season.

ZE_501 · Mar 30, 2023

xipotec said:
and Zeb!!!! That was cool. Been waiting for the Rebels tie in for a while, and really hope that also means the return of THRAWN!

I actually thought Zeb was well done; he didn't appear cartoon-y at all in terms of not just his rendering but the character's bearing.

xipotec said:
... I am glad to see the series clearly going in a direction to explain how the new republic fails the galaxy. I know many people wanted Super Luke and the Perfect new Galaxy in the ST, but I am much happier to see the nuance in the good and bad characters and how things fell apart after the power vacuum from the defeat of the empire.

I never wanted Super Luke or Perfect anything, just for the record. My issues are both conceptualization and execution. What you're describing -- nuance and a little realism -- I would welcome had it been done with much more competence. I don't disagree with you in terms of broad strokes.

xipotec said:
It why I thought Andor was such a great show. Essentially , Andor and The Mandalorian are telling similar back stories to fill in the blanks in between the films. Although I think the Mandalorian is trying tk straddle the middle line a bit too much, and it was very evident the previous episode.

I concur.

xipotec said:
I do feel like we are seeing the studio flex a bit this season, trying to appeal to a greater audience, and make the show more kid friendly. Thats going to be a huge mistake. As it will turn off alot of the heavy older fanbase.

Yep.

Khev · Mar 30, 2023

This episode was fun and entertaining and if this is the level if quality we get going forward then I'm sure I'll be content.

However watching those Mandos try and clear a town of derpy pirates just days after seeing John Wick 4 was pretty laughable, lol.

And say what you want about Robert Rodriguez but Fett going off on the Stormtroopers and later the Pyke army was way more badass than what we got here.

RavenAsh · Mar 30, 2023

I 100% agree with many on this board that this 'fixing the ST' focus is (unfortunately) where the Mando-verse is headed. The biggest issue, as we've talked about before on this forum is that the sequels themselves act against each other. No matter what anyone says, I'm almost sure that JJ despised TLJ. That movie basically ripped TFA apart and laughed in your face for caring about any set ups or potential storylines that could take place in the future. JJ then used TROS to rip apart TLJ constantly. TFA didn't really respect the OT either- and that becomes more obvious by the failure of 8 and 9. These are not movies with an overall throughline, from character to plot- to even more importantly- THEME. The OT and PT were based upon particular themes which echo in each movie. That's not the case with the sequels. And this is the problem, the Republic being ripe for a takeover akin to Palpatine makes sense considering the power it was for so long. It makes absolutely no sense for the New Republic, which just came into existence, to be as flippant about empire reminants. So in their attempts to fix the ST, and make it fit more, they're actually proving something that I think so many knew. That the ST in and of itself is a black hole of creativity, something which rips away simple storytelling basics- because to fit into that world is to go against so many tenets of making these movies and shows. The foundation was there in the PT to be built on in a long form series. That does not work in the case of the sequels. Best of luck to them but I think all those elements have been the weakest parts of the show, and it has become more prominent in each season.

I'll save my Grogu complaints until the season is done, but lets just say unless something dramatically changes, I continue to feel that they fundamentally botched that aspect completely.

jye4ever · Mar 30, 2023

Khev said:
This episode was fun and entertaining and if this is the level if quality we get going forward then I'm sure I'll be content.

However watching those Mandos try and clear a town of derpy pirates just days after seeing John Wick 4 was pretty laughable, lol.

And say what you want about Robert Rodriguez but Fett going off on the Stormtroopers and later the Pyke army was way more badass than what we got here.

This is me watching the best action movies from the 80’s after having experienced JW4..

Khev · Mar 30, 2023

jye4ever said:
This me watching the best action movies from the 80’s after having experienced JW4..

View attachment 630968

John Wick watching the supposedly badass Mando pleading for others to help him go fight the pirate army:

davejames · Mar 31, 2023

Yeah between being constantly rescued by Bo Katan and pleading for the help or forgiveness of his clan in every episode, Mando hasn't really been looking all that fearsome lately. Lol

Prime Clone · Mar 31, 2023

Khev said:
say what you want about Robert Rodriguez

greygoose · Mar 31, 2023

davejames said:
I just hope that BOBF episode isn't the last we see of Mando actually being a bounty hunter. Because that to me was always far more interesting than the Grogu storyline. And it's certainly more interesting than whatever random thing is happening this season.

Unfortunately I think those days are over for Mando. He'll settle down Grogu and show up to provide exposition from time to time. This is Bo's story now.

chrisstbh · Mar 31, 2023

He hasn’t been a bounty hunter for like 99% of the show.

MeatHookGekko · Mar 31, 2023

xipotec said:
So I am glad to see the series clearly going in a direction to explain how the new republic fails the galaxy. I know many people wanted Super Luke and the Perfect new Galaxy in the ST, but I am much happier to see the nuance in the good and bad characters and how things fell apart after the power vacuum from the defeat of the empire.

It much more interesting to me than the black and white good guy bad guy tropes of the OT. Dont get me wrong, for kids that works, but as a grown adult , I want to see more development of the history and lore behind the galaxy as well as the individual characters .

I can see where Filoni is going with all this.

What would be completely tragic, although unintentionally hilarious, is if the New Republic realizes that it cannot actively defend all the worlds under it's umbrella, and doesn't have the resource base to do it, so they have to concede using a new droid army and droid starfighters. Which brings them back to the same potential mess that started in The Phantom Menace.

An interesting question that gets raised is when the New Republic ends up cutting a deal with high level organized pirates in some worlds. In exchange for allowing certain "vices", the NR looks the other way as long as those pirates can be used as a type of ad-hoc government/enforcement structure. The further away you have allies that are on the fringes, i.e. satellite communities, the more likely you are to simply negotiate with what amounts to organized crime to establish order.

So every day working class people in the universe face an ugly dilemma. What if they weren't actually freed from the yoke of tyranny, but simply saw an exchange of a different kind of oppression? That's pretty grim, but also pretty hyper realistic.

Think about The Who, and their song, "Won't Get Fooled Again"

I'll tip my hat to the new Constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no

Yeah
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

ZE_501 · Mar 31, 2023

RavenAsh said:
It makes absolutely no sense for the New Republic, which just came into existence, to be as flippant about empire reminants.

This is a very good point. The New Republic is so incompetent and -- yes, evil -- as to be surreal. Are there real world examples for this? Yes, but this is not a competently realized, one-to-one map of real world geopolitics on to a complex and nuanced, monster-sized space opera. That's not what Star Wars is, no matter how many elements Lucas originally ripped off from 'Dune'.

And while it's true we didn't see the political structure of the Rebellion throughout the history of this franchise, there was nothing to indicate it was run by a corrupt and decadent oligarchy that didn't distinguish between the Empire's mechanized and brutal fascism vs. the grinding, inhuman bureaucracy they're showing it being replaced by.

Discounting the generals and admirals etc. for a minute -- political leaders and heroes of the Rebellion like Mon Mothma and Princess Leia of Alderaan were sidelined that easily? There's the post-modern cynicism creeping in again ... (in service of corporate shareholders) ... when did Star Wars become Game of Thrones? It just doesn't fit, IMO.

That kind of darkness works for Andor because it's a tangential, different kind of story focusing on espionage and insurgency; I love that show because it's well done and self-contained. I don't think that tone should be superimposed, retroactively no less, on to the Saga as a whole.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a nerd on an action figure forum.

chrisstbh · Mar 31, 2023

The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

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