Future of DC Films (DCEU)

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We ditch Cavil and Affleck but keep Miller??? Is this a joke?
A brand new Superman with a (somehow) young new Batman that inexplicably already has Damian Wayne as his Robin….

The only reason Miller has not yet been fired is because his movie has not come out yet. I would bet good money that Barry either dies or is “lost in the speed force” by the end of Flash. Any talk leading up to the movie’s release must be taken with lots of salt.

And I dont remember hearing anything about the new Batman being young. Just because they are starting with a younger Superman does not mean Batman will be the same age. It’s also possible that the new Superman movie will take place years earlier than the Batman movie.
 
I love Snyder as a film director and he seems like he's a super cool guy in real life, he has a great eye and I love how tactile his films are and how he knows how to make things look grand. I hate his DC movies. The dude doesn't get Batman, Superman, or most of the other DC heroes and his take on it caused the whole franchise to derail for almost a decade. His take felt more suited as the Justice Lords more than anything and to put that version as the forefront of your mainline universe rather than say maybe an alternate take on the material (I'd love to see a gloomy Superman and murderin' Batman but let those stories have a point!) just feels like it was primed to alienate the fanbase one way or another. And it's not even my opinion either, Synder has openly admit not being a fan of these heroes until Watchmen and TDKR and he really gravitates to the more "adult" sides of the genre which sometimes fans confuse the "adult" as "mature".

Gunn on the other hand, has openly admitted being a fan of Bruce Timm's DCAU just like Matt Reeves has and that's a GOOD thing as there is a crap load of stuff they could take from those shows as inspiration for their new DCU. With this announcement he's clearly trying to take things slow, heck as a Batman fanatic I'd say sit him out for awhile as I really would like to see Pattionson's version come to a close before we get overexposed with more Batman. Heck, I'd love to see Synder returning for say, an animated JL movie with his old cast back, and maybe go as dark as he wants too without restrictions-- maybe he can finally make that scene where Batman gets raped in prison too.*


*An old Zack Snyder interview perfectly captures why the new Batman movie is such a disaster.

I do think Snyder sometimes mistakes edge for good storytelling - for me his killing Jimmy Olsen as a "joke" says a lot about his storytelling instincts and reveals he has a rather different perspective on things that probably doesn't mesh with a lot of people.
I still think he has great ideas and is a great filmaker with an actual vision - but I think for something like the DCEU he was the wrong man to be solely in charge of the main continuity, I think he would have made a great partner with another filmaker (ironically Gunn perhaps) in creating a balanced DCEU vision, one with Snyder's grand vision, but also the more human, relatable and likeable aspects of someone like Gunn's film vision.
I never think its a good idea to give someone with a strong directorial vision and palette complete control over such a varied property as the DC characters.
That is why I blame WB for BVS and the "failure" of the Snyderverse and not Snyder himself, the corporate suits wanted to be as different from Marvel as possible and chose to put a man with an antithetical auteur vision to the corportate safety of the MCU in charge, then they panicked when they realized that in trying to be as different from Marvel as possible they were in fact different, and therefore not the universal audience pleasing money machine they hoped to emulate.
This was always WB's fault and in my view they are making the same mistakes all over again with Gunn and his film slate proves it, it is riddled with "Gunn-isms" that will impact the reception to this new DCU film slate and the execs will panic when it isn't smooth sailing.

Nothing ever changes.

My take from interviews I've watched is that like so many of us who grew up with superheroes as children, he did innocently love the characters as a kid. But by adulthood the project of deconstruction that Alan Moore and Frank Miller articulated with Watchmen and TDKR in 1986 resonated with him. But note that he says that when he was conceiving of Man of Steel he wanted to deconstruct Superman--and by extension all superheroes, i.e., superhero mythology--but at the end of the process still "make it okay to love this" meaning superhero mythology. Note that in Watchmen Snyder gives the superheroes a definite "cool" factor that is not present in Moore's comic run. Moore wanted to show superhero mythology as ultimately pathetic. Snyder reaches a different conclusion than Moore did. Moore thinks it's pathetic that adults escape into childish fantasies about superheroes when there are so many real problems in the world that are ignored. Snyder looks at the superheroes through the lens of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, with superheroes existing as archetypes, etc., and sees them as vessels for psychological projections of both good and bad. Anyway, if I can find the interview where he talks about "I want it to be okay to still love this... to love Superman..." after being deconstructed, I'll post it.

I agree, this is certainly what Snyder hoped to do - he was attempting to reconstruct the idea of the superhero, to answer the question of "who needs truth, justice and a better tomorrow?" and "why do heroes matter?". Unfortunately a reconstructionist vision first needs you to deconstruct the idea you wish to build back up, and while this makes for an interesting story when seen as a whole, as far as the general audience were concerned this was the main continuity of their heroes - they wanted to see these characters in their prime, as the heroes and paragons of their imagination, rather than as archetypes to be analyzed and deconstructed - they didn't know Snyder's intentions to build them back up and the execs didn't have the patience to wait for it following the reception they got.
Snyder's vision would have been great for an elseworlds style story or even many years down the line for a story like Kingdom Come which deals with these themes - but doing a reconstructionist take straight out the bat for the first ever DC universe projects was a foolishly bold and ambitious project that fundamentally misunderstood what audiences wanted and what the cultural climate was geared for.
 
Yep, like I mentioned before production value will be cheap and cheerful. I'm envisaging CW on the big screen.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they bring in the CW TV Superman actor for live action movies in an attempt to show their cross media connections. Looking at Marvel TV, yeah that'll work really well.....

Also good luck bringing all these quirky fringe characters together in a serious team up event.

Say what you want about Snyder, he at least brought epicness and huge world building to the screen, something Gunn with his "rag tag family building" movies can't do imo.
Epic ness? Nah. World building? What world building ? Lol. We barely saw the world he was trying to build lol.
 
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If there’s one thing DC fans should be completely used to by now, it’s DC blowing up its universe and starting over again.
 
Just like the “thousands” of fans that won ZSJL the Academy Award fan vote or the “thousands” of fans that spammed the Twitter verse with “restore the Snyderverse” and “release the Snyder Cut?” A loud group of fanboys does not a movement made. And the Snyder Cut was exactly a four hour fan edit. An overlong, vainglorious, self-indulgent experiment that wouldn’t have existed had a desperate-for-content, confused telecom not listened to a bunch of entitled fanboys and given Snyder the $100 million + to finish it.

Keep telling yourself that, whatever helps you sleep at night. :lol
 
https://comicbookmovie.com/justice-...se-and-dceus-fed-up-journey-a200169#gs.osxwdo
"I wanted to take care of these characters. We all know it's been a f***ed up road for many of them, for the past few years and I really thought it is a challenge, but I think it's a possibility to create something really wonderful with these characters," he said (via Screen Rant). "The history has been poo! It's been a real f***ed up journey for DC."

"We had the DCEU, which then became the Joss Whedon Justice League but it also became the Snyderverse, which became this. And then we have Wonder Woman and Wonder Woman 2, which doesn't even match what happened in Wonder Woman 1 and then we have the Arrowverse and even us coming in with The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker."

"What is it exactly? And all of a sudden Bat-Mite's a real guy," Gunn added. "So how can we take these things together and make them make sense and have them unified and have them be one real universe - one real world."
Gunn is really bending the truth here. It's not that hard to continue it as it was. All they had to do was continue with a Cavill Superman movie and a Batman movie tying in what happened with the Joker and Robin. Maybe a Green Lantern movie with Wayne Carr. The Flash could have been adapted. Then the JL2+3 including the Knightmare world, and ending with Darkseid.

It could have worked. Anyway I'm out.

It's all about ego's here. Gunn clearly wants to do what he finds interesting and as always no one listens to the fans. I mean was anyone asking for any of the stuff he's presented ?
 
It's all about ego's here. Gunn clearly wants to do what he finds interesting and as always no one listens to the fans. I mean was anyone asking for any of the stuff he's presented ?
The guy had his big break with Guardians of the Galaxy, the team nobody was asking for.
 
The guy had his big break with Guardians of the Galaxy, the team nobody was asking for.
Sure, and I love GotG. But I think he's a one trick pony, and that's what you'll get here with DC.

I'll ask this. Who are the big characters of the MCU when it comes to facing off with the big bad etc ? It's not GotG, they are quirky comic relief (sure with a good story of their own) but not main characters.

What characters has Gunn picked out at DC. Quirky ones. Starting with Peacemaker, the Suicide Squad and now with The Authority and Booster Gold.

I just don't think this will come together at all in a serious way.
 
Sure, and I love GotG. But I think he's a one trick pony, and that's what you'll get here with DC.

I'll ask this. Who are the big characters of the MCU when it comes to facing off with the big bad etc ? It's not GotG, they are quirky comic relief (sure with a good story of their own) but not main characters.

What characters has Gunn picked out at DC. Quirky ones. Starting with Peacemaker, the Suicide Squad and now with The Authority and Booster Gold.

I just don't think this will come together at all in a serious way.

I’ll be shocked if we even get through half of that list. No one cares. The only thing that is keeping DC afloat will be the Batman 2 and Joker 2.
 
Epic ness? Nah. World building? What world building ? Lol. We barely saw the world he was trying to build lol.
Not that any of this will change your mind.....

World building - Themyscira, Atlantis, Knightmare parallel universe, Darkseid, the Gods and Mother boxes and the history of the Worlds of Man, Atlantis and Amazons.

As far as not seeing enough of it, that's hardly his fault.

Epicness



 
I'll ask this. Who are the big characters of the MCU when it comes to facing off with the big bad etc ? It's not GotG, they are quirky comic relief (sure with a good story of their own) but not main characters.
Ironically, Mantis came closer than anyone at defeating Thanos in Infinity War than Spider-Man, Cap, or 90% of the other heroes did.

… Then Quill screwed it all up.
 
Ironically, Mantis came closer than anyone at defeating Thanos in Infinity War than Spider-Man, Cap, or 90% of the other heroes did.

… Then Quill screwed it all up.
I don't remember all the details and sequencing, but Strange had to look into countless realities to find the one situation in which Thanos could be defeated, where the snap happens, Tony ultimately sacrifices himself, etc. Was there no reality in which someone could knock Starlord unconscious right before he flips out and then they could avoid all that unpleasantness? . . .anyway. . .
 
I don't remember all the details and sequencing, but Strange had to look into countless realities to find the one situation in which Thanos could be defeated, where the snap happens, Tony ultimately sacrifices himself, etc. Was there no reality in which someone could knock Starlord unconscious right before he flips out and then they could avoid all that unpleasantness? . . .anyway. . .
Technically, there’s an infinite number of realities where this happens, but in millions of them Quill still screws it up, I guess. Strange just stopped after the millions of disappointing results. Kind of impressive if you think about it.
 
It's interesting to see how these announcements are already causing a divide in the DC fandom. From odd character focus choices to more rehashes... What/Who stays (the unreleased movies & it's characters), and what is to come from Gunn's selections.

I for one am dreading the future when they start releasing the casting choices. We all know character "swaps" are coming. It's unavoidable in todays Hollywood. Whether Gunn likes it or not and is in "charge", he still has to comply to todays unfortunate environment. Part of me wonders if this already has had some basis/impact on his character selections as some are relative unknowns. The mostly unknown The Authority from what I've read already has a "diverse" team.

Trying to avoid specifics and be vague so my post doesn't get deleted or start unwanted conversations... :lol

Even with Superman, no where does it say we are getting Clark Kent. And Superman Legacy is an odd title for a 1st movie... What Legacy? We are being introduced to a completely new version/take on the character.. And choosing a version of Supergirl most have absolutely no clue about, myself included.. Who really cares about the history of the Amazons? Clearly that has to be a show with an ulterior motive...

It's gonna be a fun 2 years talking about this... Will it be a hit or just the next dumpster fire for WB/DC?? :dunno
 
"I think that we’ve gotten lucky with the next four movies, frankly, because we have Shazam, which leads into Flash, which resets everything, which then goes into Blue Beetle, which is totally disconnected," Gunn says. "He can totally be a part of the DCU, [and that] goes into Aquaman, which leads into Superman, our first big project."

I wonder what his definition of 'leads' is. End credits scenes with cameos or it's just the film before the next one.
 
Part of me wonders if this already has had some basis/impact on his character selections as some are relative unknowns. The mostly unknown The Authority from what I've read already has a "diverse" team.

Even with Superman, no where does it say we are getting Clark Kent. And Superman Legacy is an odd title for a 1st movie... What Legacy? We are being introduced to a completely new version/take on the character..
The Authority was diverse, with a woman and black man (if you go back to Stormwatch) being leader at different points in time. Their equivalent of Superman and Batman were also a homosexual couple. So, not much need to change there, though I don't recall anyone being transgender or from an indigenous tribe or what have you. It was also an international group.

As for Superman, I don't know about the legacy, but damn if I won't smile if we get Comet the Super Horse, Kandor, etc. Gunn does have Bat-Mite existing in the Peacemaker universe, which I'm assuming will be the same reality this takes place in.

Comet-action292.PNG
 
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