“I wanted to kill him after he said that, but to do so felt redundant…er, I mean wrong.”
**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**
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ajp4mgs
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I don't understand how you would neutralize Vader without killing him. If you could give me an example, then I could at least understand what you mean. You mentioned in an earlier post that Kenobi should've taken Vader prisoner. I don't get how an Imperial fugitive could safely imprison a Force-powered, high-ranking Imperial authority without resorting to crudely burying him somewhere without access to sustenance. And since doing that would effectively be the same as killing him directly, it shouldn't be an option. Not for a Jedi.
Sure, he could've taken the lightsaber like he did in ROTS, but the odds of it ever becoming a costly mistake down the road are long. Sith shouldn't multiply like gremlins. Kenobi accomplished his mission of buying the escapees time to get to safety. That was his function as a Jedi. In so doing, he kept himself alive and was able to incapacitate Vader without resorting to murdering him. So fine, I give him an "A-" on the Jedi grading scale with points only taken away for leaving the lightsaber there.
I just don't know what more Kenobi could do to neutralize Vader. He crushed Vader's chest box, which is his life support system. He left him kneeling on the ground gasping for breath. Anything more would be killing him, either directly or indirectly.
Obi-Wan is not the Punisher, and Jedi aren't vigilantes. Add to that the complicating factor that this is still the same guy who was like a brother to him. This show established Kenobi's torment for ten years having thought he'd killed Anakin on Mustafar. What logic would there be in establishing all of that just to have him go through the whole ordeal again?
Luke Skywalker was a heroic Jedi for not breaking their values by going through with killing his defenseless/beaten father. Obi-Wan basically made the same choice. The only difference is that Vader couldn't stand watching his son get roasted and doomed to the same tragic path he was put on 20 years earlier. But that's nothing more than Luke being rewarded for doing the right thing. Kenobi did the right thing and didn't need to be rewarded for it.
And again, when I say "doing the right thing," I mean that strictly within the context of established Jedi values, and not as a general moral/ethical question. And when I defend this aspect of the story, I'm not defending the entire series which I felt was mostly terrible prior to the finale. But in the instances (rarer as they are becoming) when I feel lore has been maintained and treated properly, especially when it comes to defining Jedi virtue/actions, I'll defend it.
ajp4mgs
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jye4ever
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This is on par with the comics, which show Vader as someone continuing to struggle to put down his attraction to the light. Its not a super-strong attraction, true but its there.
Vader is not quite right in the head. This is made exquisitely clear in those "unimportant" comics. [not that you said that, just speaking in general.] How could he be? What he wants is not at all logical. He's kept on a pretty tight leash, otherwise no one could stand against him. Maybe palps.
Maybe.
I fault Kenobi for not doing the merciful thing and ending Anakin when he could. Instead he let him burn alive. That would affect anyone's mental state. By not doing so, Kenobi helped create the thing that would kill billions. It was weakness and it was strategically stupid.
I have not read/watched all the stories in SW, but I am not sure Anakin can be blamed for killing billions? The Death Star was already under construction before he turned and in the end it was Tarkin who ordered the destruction of Alderaan. The Death Star and the destruction of at least one planet would have happened whether or not Vader was there.
Not really buying into this. It was hinted at the end of ESB that Leia was force sensitive by sensing Luke was in need of help. Yoda's statement is pointing to her.
But for argument's sake, let's say Luke fails in either ESB or ROTJ. The events won't have Empire 2.0 but it also won't lead to the resistance trying to search for Luke which coincidentally led to the events of meeting up with Rey because Luke wouldn't exist at that point who really is essential to the events leading to and happening in ST. Besides, had the emperor been alive with the empire's strength still fully intact, he wouldn't have had to rely on a clone. Also, I doubt the events leading to Rey being hidden in Jakku would have transpired as the empire would have an absolute stranglehold by then. Rey's parents wouldn't have successfully escaped.
Even with Rey's strength in the force, she still needed training and Yoda wouldn’t be alive at that time. Yoda would have to put their immediate hope on Leia and train her with what little time he had left. If anything, it would be possible for Ben Solo to be the that "other hope." But again, too many suppositions at that point of if and when Luke failed.
Maybe Yoda thought Rey was the answer..I mean he burned the tree of the Jedi because he thought it was useless
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Probably true, about the destruction happening whether he were there or not - but did not Vader technically outrank Tarkin? He certainly did not demur in the least at the idea. It has been a loooong time since I rewatched the original film, but I remember the distinct impression that Alderaan was chosen specifically to hurt and spite Leia.
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Tarkin was in charge of the Death Star so in the chain of command, at least while aboard, he had power over Vader.
It was always a bit confusing who outranked who though, as Vader was more like Palpatine's enforcer, especially when he visited Death Star II.
However, the prologue to the novelization described an isolated emperor at the mercy of opportunistic governors. As Lucas re-wrote and developed the story with each episode, Palpatine became more powerful, and his weakness passed off as subterfuge.
We're talking about Yoda's line back in ESB when Rey didn't exist. The whole premise was based on if not him (Luke) then the other.
You know it’s hilarious that Carrie admitted over the years ..she couldn’t understand why they gave her such bizarre dialogue in this scene. I remember Carrie saying why she had to say he smelled bad
Watched ROTS and then immediately followed it with the season finale of Obi-Wan. Wow! I straight up think the new episode is just fantastic and really elevates the entire PT.
greygoose
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Sounds good! Might try it out.
Prime Clone
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Dark_Knight_89
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This is a common misconception. Only the Grand Inquisitor speaks to Vader in person. Reva had no face to face time with Vader until she was made Grand Inquisitor ("It is an honor to be invited aboard, Lord Vader"). All of her interaction with him prior to that was via hologram. In fact, I'm not sure the regular Inquisitors get much interaction with Vader, even by hologram, as shown by the Fifth Brother's reaction "You spoke to him yourself?".
Yes, there was a minor moment when Vader came to Mapuzo with the Inquisitors to confront Kenobi, but I believe this was an exception. Reva could not have attacked him there in the open.
Reva knew she had to do whatever she could to rise up the ranks and gain Vader's trust before being able to meet him face to face and alone.
Killing Luke as revenge when Vader didn't even know about Luke was stupid, but I liked the idea of her doing anything she could to rise up the ranks and get close enough to kill Vader. Kenobi was just a means to an end. All the anger and obsession she showed (and got slated for) to get what she wanted was justified in my eyes. She was desperate.
The main thing I didn't like / understand in the finale was Reva surviving her wounds once she returned to the light and let go of her hatred and desire for revenge. I thought that the unnatural sith ability that she was using to cling on to life was driven by that need for vengeance. Once she fails to follow through and slaughter the youngling and choses the light, I thought she would fade away. Do you think that was the original intention before the rumoured re-shoot and tentative announcement for Reva show.
jye4ever
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Reva story was an absolute crap fest the show was only saved by Vader and ObiWan.
I teared up with the Vader ObiWan parts and when he said goodbye to Leia lol
I also teared up at the shocking end to episode 3.... poor Wade, what a loss to the rebellion.
I like the last couple of episodes for the most part. It was quite apparent that they were either penned in their entirety by a different writer or Joby's screen plays were heavily re-worked. I think this show really helped connect the PT and OT, Ewan's obi-wan could naturally progress into Alec's original portrayal of the character. Seeing Hayden in the damaged suit really cemented that it is Anakin in there but the changing back and forth between Vader and Anakin's 'voice's' also helped show that these are in some ways two different characters in the same body.
This didn't get me quite in the feels like Luke in Mando season 2 finale but I did really enjoy a lot of the Obi-wan and Vader moments and Obi-wan and Leia moments too.
It was really nice to see Owen and Beru too and have their characters fleshed out more. It made me wonder why Luke calls them uncle and auntie when really they were his mum and dad and they treated him as their son. Made me feel bad for how their lives turn out in a New Hope. Owen kind of comes across as a grumpy man in that film but it's easier to see that he was really trying to protect his 'son' from the wider universe, his father and what he might become.
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